Point me in the right direction (long)
05-24-2008, 05:11 PM
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Point me in the right direction (long)
I don't know what's going to be useful to those who I hope read this thread, so I'm just going to type all of it. I am looking for people that know about the rotary, engines in general, and FI to correct my thinking and point me in the right direction.
To put it simply, in a few years I plan to add FI to my '06 MT. The trouble is that I just don't know enough about engines (yet) to decide which FI option is the best for me, that's why I need help.
I should also note that I live in a city, I use the car as my daily driver.
I'll start with why I want it. I love the uniqueness of the rotary engine, its the whole reason I bought the car. I love the sound it makes, the way it revs, how smooth it is, just about everything. I must admit however that I feel a bit annoyed whenever the 1980's khaki sedan that I pull up behind at a light starts to go, and I have to push 7krpm to match him. I DO live in a city and people DO drive with lead foots here, but I know that not EVERYONE is jamming the throttle all the time.
Many of you are about to post something to the effect of "if you want straight line speed you shouldn't have gotten an RX-8." To this I have to say that I bought the RX-8 because it is unique, and let's be honest for a second, not every bit of road in the world, and especially not every bit of road in a city, is a curve. Having wonderful, god-like handling does not excuse straight line speed as an issue, just like a muscle car's eye-sucking straight line speed does not excuse it's clumsiness at corners.
When I first looked into FI, I went to the dyno comparison thread. Immediately the first line that popped out at me was the orange one, the Pettit S/C, because it most closely followed the pattern of the stock dyno, the green line at the bottom. I figured "Yes, perfect. A smooth, steady power crescendo just like the one I love, just higher up." Next I noticed that it is higher right from the start, which poses a slight problem: Gas.
Now up comes the group that is itching to post "if you want good mileage, get a civic." To this group, I say that I can absolutely tolerate 1 tank of gas a week, even with Chicago prices at 4.50/gal. My route takes me on mainly expressways, I don't usually need to go into the city. For some dumb reason I average less than 180 miles to the tank which comes out to under 15mpg, which I can tolerate. What I cannot cover is anything less than that ON AVERAGE. Yes I know that putting my foot down with FI warrants more fuel, but I do not always put my foot down, in fact I try and cruise at 3krpm or less due to my already putrid fuel economy.
This put the pettit supercharger out of the question, for a time at least.
The next line that caught my eye was the Mazsport turbo. The purple line was attractive to me because I saw it and thought "Perfect! It's huge power on tap that won't black-hole my fuel unless I feel like accelerating fast." Than I realized that it runs at higher boost pressures than the other kits, and I've heard bad things about high boost and atomized apex seals. A turbo is not going to look very good on the warranty claim either (Haha, I even giggled a bit when I typed that)
I wondered if I would be able to run the kit at lower boost. I don't need 360whp, I would be completely satisfied with 100 less than that.
Price makes the Mazsport kit look completely unrealistic too. I COULD get that type of money, but than I wouldn't have the money to fix the things that will inevitably break when subjected to FI. Than again it is the most "complete" kit offered, thus the least likely to break, right?
Recently however I have been leaning back towards the Pettit kit. I did some further digging and I found out that superchargers might not hurt the fuel economy as much, because it forces air past resisting components. Others disagree and I have no idea who to believe. Than I realized that I'm running incredibly rich right now. I have heard that many people with an Accessport and tune achieve around 20mpg interstate. At a recent meet I attended, a user with a turbocharger was getting instantaneous readings well over 20mpg. If I did the same, coupled with better flowing components, I might not lose efficiency unless I stomp it.
Now I hear amazing things about the MM Greddy upgrade, but I haven't even begun to dig into that.
What I need is for the experts to point me in the right direction.
Whatever I get, I plan to use it as a daily driver. Yes, a daily driver, with the monthly-or-so track day once I take HPDE. This is all very preliminary, I just need to know the right direction for now.
To summarize my preferred results:
I would like 250whp. That's enough for me.
I would like 200lb-ft of torque.
I would like something that is "daily driveable".
I would like something that does not black-hole my fuel down FURTHER.
I would like something that won't incinerate my engine.
To put it simply, in a few years I plan to add FI to my '06 MT. The trouble is that I just don't know enough about engines (yet) to decide which FI option is the best for me, that's why I need help.
I should also note that I live in a city, I use the car as my daily driver.
I'll start with why I want it. I love the uniqueness of the rotary engine, its the whole reason I bought the car. I love the sound it makes, the way it revs, how smooth it is, just about everything. I must admit however that I feel a bit annoyed whenever the 1980's khaki sedan that I pull up behind at a light starts to go, and I have to push 7krpm to match him. I DO live in a city and people DO drive with lead foots here, but I know that not EVERYONE is jamming the throttle all the time.
Many of you are about to post something to the effect of "if you want straight line speed you shouldn't have gotten an RX-8." To this I have to say that I bought the RX-8 because it is unique, and let's be honest for a second, not every bit of road in the world, and especially not every bit of road in a city, is a curve. Having wonderful, god-like handling does not excuse straight line speed as an issue, just like a muscle car's eye-sucking straight line speed does not excuse it's clumsiness at corners.
When I first looked into FI, I went to the dyno comparison thread. Immediately the first line that popped out at me was the orange one, the Pettit S/C, because it most closely followed the pattern of the stock dyno, the green line at the bottom. I figured "Yes, perfect. A smooth, steady power crescendo just like the one I love, just higher up." Next I noticed that it is higher right from the start, which poses a slight problem: Gas.
Now up comes the group that is itching to post "if you want good mileage, get a civic." To this group, I say that I can absolutely tolerate 1 tank of gas a week, even with Chicago prices at 4.50/gal. My route takes me on mainly expressways, I don't usually need to go into the city. For some dumb reason I average less than 180 miles to the tank which comes out to under 15mpg, which I can tolerate. What I cannot cover is anything less than that ON AVERAGE. Yes I know that putting my foot down with FI warrants more fuel, but I do not always put my foot down, in fact I try and cruise at 3krpm or less due to my already putrid fuel economy.
This put the pettit supercharger out of the question, for a time at least.
The next line that caught my eye was the Mazsport turbo. The purple line was attractive to me because I saw it and thought "Perfect! It's huge power on tap that won't black-hole my fuel unless I feel like accelerating fast." Than I realized that it runs at higher boost pressures than the other kits, and I've heard bad things about high boost and atomized apex seals. A turbo is not going to look very good on the warranty claim either (Haha, I even giggled a bit when I typed that)
I wondered if I would be able to run the kit at lower boost. I don't need 360whp, I would be completely satisfied with 100 less than that.
Price makes the Mazsport kit look completely unrealistic too. I COULD get that type of money, but than I wouldn't have the money to fix the things that will inevitably break when subjected to FI. Than again it is the most "complete" kit offered, thus the least likely to break, right?
Recently however I have been leaning back towards the Pettit kit. I did some further digging and I found out that superchargers might not hurt the fuel economy as much, because it forces air past resisting components. Others disagree and I have no idea who to believe. Than I realized that I'm running incredibly rich right now. I have heard that many people with an Accessport and tune achieve around 20mpg interstate. At a recent meet I attended, a user with a turbocharger was getting instantaneous readings well over 20mpg. If I did the same, coupled with better flowing components, I might not lose efficiency unless I stomp it.
Now I hear amazing things about the MM Greddy upgrade, but I haven't even begun to dig into that.
What I need is for the experts to point me in the right direction.
Whatever I get, I plan to use it as a daily driver. Yes, a daily driver, with the monthly-or-so track day once I take HPDE. This is all very preliminary, I just need to know the right direction for now.
To summarize my preferred results:
I would like 250whp. That's enough for me.
I would like 200lb-ft of torque.
I would like something that is "daily driveable".
I would like something that does not black-hole my fuel down FURTHER.
I would like something that won't incinerate my engine.
05-26-2008, 02:19 AM
#2
I personally really want to get the greddy + MM upgrade, though I just cant afford it right now. As you were saying, you could simply keep the power low on the mazsport though you might as well go with another kit for the money if it can do what you want anyways. The one thing I will say about that though, is if you have a set up capable of more power with a good aftermarket way of managing it (tunes), then you should be able to have a more conservative daily tune and a higher powered fun tune. That probably depends greatly on a few factors such as EMU and which kit you choose though.
There's a couple arguments for and against superchargers that you'll see brought up frequently. One in support would be the fact that it directly corresponds with engine speed, the second you hit the accelerator the power is there. The only problem is, if you look at the dyno comparison, many of them provide power quickly enough that you're almost at the power with regular driving. The downside of superchargers is they have to take power to make it. In the long run you will see the positives, but it's often brought up that they are inefficient in that way.
All that said, I personally would choose the MM upgraded greddy kit just for the mere fact that it's not too pricey (as far as FI), nice peak horsepower and power that is seen quickly. BHR (black halo racing) and MM are working on a joint kit, though I have no clue what their goals are yet... so might be worth waiting, but could be too expensive or something (who knows...).
There's a couple arguments for and against superchargers that you'll see brought up frequently. One in support would be the fact that it directly corresponds with engine speed, the second you hit the accelerator the power is there. The only problem is, if you look at the dyno comparison, many of them provide power quickly enough that you're almost at the power with regular driving. The downside of superchargers is they have to take power to make it. In the long run you will see the positives, but it's often brought up that they are inefficient in that way.
All that said, I personally would choose the MM upgraded greddy kit just for the mere fact that it's not too pricey (as far as FI), nice peak horsepower and power that is seen quickly. BHR (black halo racing) and MM are working on a joint kit, though I have no clue what their goals are yet... so might be worth waiting, but could be too expensive or something (who knows...).
05-26-2008, 11:18 AM
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I personally really want to get the greddy + MM upgrade, though I just cant afford it right now. As you were saying, you could simply keep the power low on the mazsport though you might as well go with another kit for the money if it can do what you want anyways. The one thing I will say about that though, is if you have a set up capable of more power with a good aftermarket way of managing it (tunes), then you should be able to have a more conservative daily tune and a higher powered fun tune. That probably depends greatly on a few factors such as EMU and which kit you choose though.
There's a couple arguments for and against superchargers that you'll see brought up frequently. One in support would be the fact that it directly corresponds with engine speed, the second you hit the accelerator the power is there. The only problem is, if you look at the dyno comparison, many of them provide power quickly enough that you're almost at the power with regular driving. The downside of superchargers is they have to take power to make it. In the long run you will see the positives, but it's often brought up that they are inefficient in that way.
All that said, I personally would choose the MM upgraded greddy kit just for the mere fact that it's not too pricey (as far as FI), nice peak horsepower and power that is seen quickly. BHR (black halo racing) and MM are working on a joint kit, though I have no clue what their goals are yet... so might be worth waiting, but could be too expensive or something (who knows...).
There's a couple arguments for and against superchargers that you'll see brought up frequently. One in support would be the fact that it directly corresponds with engine speed, the second you hit the accelerator the power is there. The only problem is, if you look at the dyno comparison, many of them provide power quickly enough that you're almost at the power with regular driving. The downside of superchargers is they have to take power to make it. In the long run you will see the positives, but it's often brought up that they are inefficient in that way.
All that said, I personally would choose the MM upgraded greddy kit just for the mere fact that it's not too pricey (as far as FI), nice peak horsepower and power that is seen quickly. BHR (black halo racing) and MM are working on a joint kit, though I have no clue what their goals are yet... so might be worth waiting, but could be too expensive or something (who knows...).
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