jwbond

i read that Mazsport unlocked the rx8 ECU. will this allow for a methonal injection kit to be used with the greddy or another turbo kit?

i know many on this board are not happy with the limitations of the greddy. would methonal injection be a solution for reliable power?

rotarygod

The limitations of the Greddy are not boost based. They are based on the fact that their turbo can't supply enough air on the top end to make much more than 300 hp. It doesn't matter what type of fuel you use. It has only been tuning that affects reliablity. Now that things can be tuned in properly, this shouldn't be an issue.

Methanol is extremely corrosive. I personally wouldn't use it anywhere other than in a purpose built dedicated race car.

jwbond

could the methonal/turbo setup be accomplished with a larger turbo?

how harse is it in comparison to nitrous?

if used sparingly how much does nitrous typically shorten the life of a rotary engine?

i am starting to think that a 50 shot of nitrous might be the best option for me. anyone have any dynos of the 13b on a 50shot?

rotarygod

Could methanol be physically used? Yes. Methanol is extremely corrosive. Indy cars that run methanol have their tanks and fuel lines flushed out after each run with regular gasoline. If they didn't , the lines and tank would begin to rust immediately after they were drained. They can't even wait until the next day to do it. Methanol as with many other alcohols absorbs water from the air and any humidity around it. This water is what causes rust. Methanol is seriously nasty stuff when you are talking about using it for any street use.

Methanol on it's own will not give you any more power. It doesn't work like nitrous. Methanol has a much lower stoichiometric a/f ratio than gasoline. Somewhere below 9:1. It takes methanol than gasoline just to get the car to run good. I don't see any reason to try to run methanol unless you have a purpose built race car that you need 800+ hp (you get the idea) out of. Methanol has no value in street use and really not much in most hobby oriented track use. The other problem is finding it and then paying for it.

Nitrous isn't any different than any other power adder. How reliable it is depends on how well it is tuned in and how close to the ragged edge you are trying to run. Just adding a 50 shot will do nothing. Properly tuning it is everything. Personally I'm not a fan of nitrous. It is cheap up front but unlike a turbo or supercharger it isn't there when you need it such as when you are just trying to pass in traffic. Nitrous really has no place on any public streets whatsoever. It is only needed if you street race and we don't condone that here. Save it for the track and get something that you don't have to refill and you can always use.

jwbond

maybe it isnt methonal i am thinking of then. my brother is adding a new engine management along with alocohol sprayed w/ his pump gas to his evo. turbo trix guarantees over 500 to the wheels with this setup (a larger turbo is added as well).

i was wondering if something like that is possible for the rx8 to get it over 300 to the wheels reliably now that the ecu is unlocked.

rotarygod

Your brother is using Ethanol. Close but not quite the same. Again is it possible? Yes. There is no need for it though at the power levels you are looking for. I personally feel that it too has no use on the street the way it is being used. People are using it as a bandaid. It is a temporary solution to a problem. Like nitrous this can run out. What happens if your brothers car runs out of ethanol under full boost? If there is a system in place to pull out some timing then I guess that's OK but this is really only a race track product. Too many people are getting track and street use confused.

BrazilianRX8

sorry RG, but i dont think alchool is that bad,
over here im brazil we have hole feets of cars running just on alchool 100% of the time...
i've seen 15 years old 100% alchool in perfect shape.

on top of that, as a regulation here in brazil ALL gasoline must be added with 25% alchool.

so far my experience with greedy and 25% alchool have been very nice, i am having 15 to 30 hp more than what i am seening on the Message board ...

in a couple more months i can tell you if it is deadly to the rotary engine or not :D

coolingmist

methanol is corrosive if used in concentrated amounts. If you use 50/50 mix of water methanol you will have much less likely hood of corrosion. We have had customers that have used methanol for years with no ill effects. Our 94 Rx7 has had our system installed on it for years without problem.

www.coolingmist.com

jwbond

have you installed any ethanol kits on the rx8? if so what kind of power did you produce and how much does the kit cost?

therm8

Correct me if I'm wrong, but

A properly tuned car has no need for methanol/water injection. It can be used to up the boost, sure, but I'd rather fuel&intercool the engine properly than apply a band-aid solution. Now if you're using it for safety margin, I'm all for it. (This is all assuming you're not going for some 1000whp monster, where meth/water is probably the only option)

rotarygod

^^^ That's how to use it.

Richard Paul

iTrader: (5)

You guys are confusing things like methanol and ethanol, misted and added to fuel. I think that if you have to much boost and are getting detonation then misting in a 50/50 water alcohol mix can help. But it is in fact a bandaid.
Alcohol has an amazing heat evaporation rate. Pour some on your and and see how cold it gets as it evaporates.
But don't think it by itself adds power because it doesn't. In race applications it adds about 10% but that is with engines built to use this fuel and they run 15 to 1 compression or more if they can get it. They run 12 or more with turbo'ed engines.
Next it has to run a 6 or 7 to one with air. That is if your running it as your main fuel. It doesn't matter if your misting it just under high boost. Just using water is the normal thing ut that puts out the fire to well. So adding a little alcohol helps to add fuel, just not enough to add power by itself.

I think that all this hype about added power is bad for the consumer. I'd much rather see vendors tell the whole story when they market these products. It takes a little more understanding from the consumer but there would be a lot better useage of these things in the long run.

I'm not saying it is useless, I've used it in the past. Only when I had to though. It is much nicer to have something that runs all by itself and you don't have to worry about it running out of additive.

We ran it on the Merlins at Reno Air Races. But there was an extreem case as they run 30 to 40 PSI. I have knowlage of more being used but will not tell.

BTW those engines have 6 to 1 compression ratio.