brillo

The Cost of Speed - Putting the Price of RX8 FI Into prospective

First off, a big congrats to Scott and Mazsport for hopefully answering the prayers of many RX8 enthusiasts by finally unlocking the ECU so some real NA and Forced Induction tuning can be done.

As people begin to dive deeper into Rotary FI on this forum, it seems like inevitably, some (not all) people take some issue with the cost of speed. I wanted to inject some reality into the cost of performance for various current cars on the market, to better guage the cost of performance for our beloved 8s.

Now in fairness, like most people, money for me doesn’t grow on trees, and like most people here, $5,000-$6,000 is a lot of money, hell that’s a Plasma TV. The reality is, for most current late model cars (G35, 350Z, S2000, Mustang) any decent FI kit with any degree of quality and headroom (room for more power) including engine management is in this range, There is simply no getting around this.

Granted, the Greddy kit can be had for about $3,200, which is actually a rather nice kit sans management, but if you add the above mentioned Mazsport Interceptor-X EMS, you right at $5,000 without installation or gauges. I’d rather not have to spend $5,000 - $6,000 to get the power I want, but it’s the market, and when your consider my lowly base model was about $25,000, suddenly, adding another $6,000 and getting power to spank most street cars seems like a decent value.

Here are some examples of prices on complete retail FI kits:

Paxton 2005 Mustang Supercharger Kit - $4,895
Steve Millen G35/350Z Stage 1 Supercharger (303 WHP) - $3,795 (not including required new hood), Stage II - $5,795
Comptech S2000 Supercharger - $5,995
Greddy Twin Turbo G35/350Z - $6,495

Again, I’m not trying to be preachy, I just want people as they begin to plan their builds to put the costs in perspective. If you factor in that our car is cheaper on average than nearly all the cars I listed, suddenly, performance per $, we get a pretty sweat deal. Hopefully more companies will release kits with a variety of reliable management systems soon, as I know Pettit is working with another management system. Competition is a good thing.

One other note, all this research and R&D into the 8 should set aftermarket companies up for even faster releases of good FI parts for the next RX7, as they will more than likely share many engine management systems.

Peace

Zoom….Zoom….Zoom…PSSST (a great quote per Jeff Abrams)

BigOLundh

iTrader: (1)

So far this is what i have put in (for FI) and plan on putting in about 2 more weeks.
Greddy Turbo
Greddy Oil Pan
Defi Gauges (3)
Defi Gauges Link Controller
PTP Gauge Pod
RP High-Flow Cat
Greddy Exhaust
APEXi BOV
Greddy Boost Controller
and finally... Tuning.

In the end:
Total Cost:
Total Benefit:
Total Value: :D


Now its time to move onto Stage 2: Suspension

Fanman

That list is pretty good. That was why I was giving SSR/SFR such a hard time. I told them that I thought a $7500 kit for our car would never sell. Those are realistic prices for kits for the S2000 & 350Z. Not to mention :

Vortech Supercharger (350Z & S2000): $5000
Ultimate Racing Turbocharger Kit (S2000) : $5400

mike1324a

I would not have a problem with paying $7000+ for FI like the z/g35 owners if i got the same horsepower results as them.

BigOLundh

iTrader: (1)

What if you didnt get the same amount of HP but the same amount of speed?

Remember your car is substatnially lighter, this is why we are just as fast as Z's on the track... even though they have more HP.

In the end:
Light + Less HP = Fast
Heavy + More HP = Just as fast

Inherently i think the answer depends on the owner and their driving style. If your seriously power hungry for max HP... then you bought the wrong car.

Fanman

The big divergence is the amount of hp gain from these kits. While the 350Z is about 200-225 lbs. more than our car, the kits available to them provide much more hp for the money (and more than compensating for the weight). For example, we have the inexpensive Greddy kit (about 60-65 hp), PTP (claimed about 90hp) & SSR/SFR units (claimed 100-110 whp gain). For the 350Z's you are looking at about 80 whp (Stillen SC) to about 170 whp (modded Greddy TT setup) in the recent Speed magazine. The S2000 kits are getting about a 90-130 whp increases. If we could get 170 whp gain that would be a 350 whp RX8 !!! I honestly think that our engines will be reaching it's limits (300 whp) without major engine strengthening for the long term. With more people clamoring for more hp from our kits, I personally am going to settle at around 260-270 whp daily driven car, and letting some of the others push the limit. Interested in seeing the long term limits of our engine.

BigOLundh

iTrader: (1)

you make a good point.
My point was more theoretical in that the gains were a consant.

Honestly... i'd still rather have my 8, rather than the other cars. There are just so many characteristics of the RX-8 that make it a great car to drive.

Fanman

Me too. I would rather have a 270 whp RX8, than a 400 whp 350Z. I was looking at the 350Z, but the interior was just so nasty. Might as well just get a Mustang GT, or GTO.

crossbow

Don't forget the hidden costs of the 350z/G35 kits. Those things have almost a 40% fatality rate.

One side of the shop is installing the kits, the other side is rebuilding the engine due to bent rods...due to the kits installed by the other side of the shop.

I'd thus consider the bare minimum cost for a Z/G35 turbo kit would be closer to 10,000 USD, as that includes the full engine buildup required to handle 300+ rwhp reliabily.

Fanman

Actually HKS came out and straight said that their Rotrex SC unit could develop another 100 hp more than their current buildup (about 310 whp) with headers, hi-flow cats, & exhaust (and more boost) but at 375/400 whp you need to strenthen the internals. I've debated this point on the 350Z board, but they said I & HKS were full of it. Dunno, what are the long term effects of 400 whp on their cars.

mike1324a

Oh i totally agree. I love my 8. I was just talking about horsepower gains for the money. Our car is made for the curves more then the streights but i just want a kit that will shut the stang and z owners up.