saskloppers

I've ordered the SFR turbocharger kit with all the accessories and a SNOW water/methanol injection system for my RX8, which I've decided to use strictly for track racing from hereon. In our category we are allowed to race either methanol or 103 octane racing fuel.

Which will be the best option and what is the dangers of using either fuel?

Obviously I do not want to rebuild the Renesis every time we've raced and need to decide on a fuel that will give the best durability. We will use Royal Purple lubricants, and if I'm not happy with the DFT EMS I will be changing to Microtech which is hugely popular in this country.

What recommendations?

I wish I could spend the $280k on a IMSA Carbon fibre 8!

whoneedspistons

iTrader: (2)

well it depends how you want to use the methanol.... are you using it as a part of your fuel system to boost octane or are you using it to cool the chambers?

are you using it as a dd (daily driver)?
the reason i ask is, if you use the car as a track car you will most likely be more maticulous resulting in you never running low of methanol... which then means you can run it as a source of fuel and tune that into your ems to see large gains.... but as a dd you can accidentally run out, cause you will most likely use a small storage tank or your washer bottle and basically sacrafice the motor. so basically if you are carefull and are using for the track use it as a fuel source, if its a dd use it to control chamber temps

evilmiata

Ironic coming from a guy with your screen name.

whoneedspistons

iTrader: (2)

lol... force of habit

maxxdamigz

iTrader: (1)

Just to confirm - you are not thinking about putting methanol in your gas tank right?

edit: Ok - I took 2 min to look at the 400$ MAF Meth Injection Kit offered by Snow Performance. It's actually a nice looking kit. Seeing as you can't run methanol through stock fuel systems designed for Gasoline (or at least not for very long), I'd guess your 2 options are to either use 103 octane with methanol purely for cooling/additional enrichment or use 93 octane and run as much methanol as required to provide the same detonation/ping resistance as setup one. I should think the 103 octane would be safer/have a greater margin for error even if it is more expensive. If you have enough cash to rebuild your fuel system with methanol tolerant seals/parts, then thats another matter.

rotarygod

This is a link to my friend Brian's setup. He is using Methanol as he would water injection. It's a supplement to gasoline but not a complete replacement. At max boost he is running 80%/20% gas to methanol. This works very well for him. If you want to run straight methanol, you need to make some important changes. Fuel injector size is one of them. You'd probably also want to change the fuel pump and regulator as well. The o-rings under the injectors will swell so you'd need to source some new ones for them as well. As an additional injection fuel, you just add a few things but leave everything else alone. This is easier in many respects. Methanol is very hygroscopic. It absorbs and mixes very well with water. Champ cars run methanol but to avoid the onset of corrosion in the system after they are done running them (which is very quick!), they flush out the system with gasoline. If you want to use straight methanol, be prepared to completely drain your gas tank after each session and flush your whole system out with gasoline. This is a pain but if you want it to be reliable, it needs to be done.

I take it you are allowed to use one fuel or the other but not both? Can you use both? Methanol would be my choice from a sheer power producing standpoint. It also cools the intake charge more than gasoline so it's more than just an octane or rate of burn that contributes. This is very important on turbocharged engines. It's downside is that you need more of it to go the same disance. You will need to refill more often. What do your rules say about fuel quantity? Is there a stipulation that Methanol gets X amount of fuel total for a race while gasoline gets Y amount? If there is no limit on how much you can use, methanol is the winner in terms of power potential. Gasoline has no issues with line corossion or needing to change componenets in the system. If you can run on gasoline but use methanol as secondary injection, do it. It'll benefit you. Take a look at this thread. It's got lots of good info on setup on an RX-7. It may help you. My choice is that if you can use both fuels, to just run on gasoline but use methanol as an auxiliary injection. If you can't do this then you'll need to study the rules very carefully to see which one is the most beneficial to you.

http://forum.teamfc3s.org/showthread.php?t=50682

whoneedspistons

iTrader: (2)

rg thanks for the further explination... i unfortuanetly was not able to describe it as well as you... but that is what i was talking about also

therm8

Isn't methanol corrosive to aluminum? Something to think about. What about washing of the rotor seals?

whoneedspistons

iTrader: (2)

it burns off before any corrosion occurs.... most of the time its used as a mist (fogger system)

mikeschaefer

so what happens when you turn the car off?

therm8

Well, unless I misunderstood, the OP was thinking of running straight methanol. That's why I asked the questions. There's alot of aluminum on this car, from the fuel tank (I think?) to the engine. And washing the oil from the apex seals is a definate concern.

whoneedspistons

iTrader: (2)

yeah well in that case maybe... but i believe he said he bought a snow system...

Renesis_8

If its a race only engine its alright to run with methanol. As RG stated, it'll be more of a hassle to keep your car in good shape. RB has a 900 3-rotor race engine that runs on methanol I believe.

Just dont expect to see the engine go for 100k... the life of it will probably be decreased a lot.

But as the original poster stated, its his track car. So go for it! Maybe strip everything too. Get it down to 2800pounds maybe?.
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saskloppers

Firstly thank you to all who contributed to my question.

I was aiming at using Methanol as the primary fuel as well as in the cooling stage, hence the SNOW injection system, but, in view of the possibility of engine damage I will use 103 as the primary fuel.

I run 4 race cars, two of which uses methanol. What I do with my oval race car is to mix the fuel with castor oil, which allows for better cylinder wall lubrication. No problems with that one. Seeing that this is a rotary I don't think we will experiment. Obviously we need reliability. This year has shown me you don't have to win every race to win a championship. My oval car won the SA title two weeks ago mainly due to consistency and reliability.

The RX-8 will race against 350Z's, A4 Quattro's, BMW 330i's, and some other serious machinery in our national championship, based on the DTM formula. I am looking for a sequential box for the RX-8 as I don't like the notchiness of the standard item. In my Hotrod I run a Quaife sequential with steering shift that works well albeit helluva noizy with the straight cut gears.

My other main concern is the fact that we are limited to using Bridgestone Potenza RE55 type ST2 intermediates. These tyres take a lot of pounding at 260Kph plus and are generally nackered after 64 laps (200 Kilometres). I hope the extra power that the turbo will make, will not yeopardise the performance. Unfortunately we are allowed to change only two tyres per meet. Silly.

This car is going on a strict diet at the moment. We are still considering the brakes to be used and are also looking for lightweight wheels.

So I guess I'll use 103 and map appropriately!