carbonRX8

iTrader: (1)

Yeah. You're right. Must be increasing IATs limiting mass transfer at high boost. You (and I hope to be) right on the edge of the chart. This makes nearly complete sense now. That is just a little scary.

So I will be completely fine with calcload maxing at 2.

Thanks dude.

BTW isnt is, like, REALLY early morning where you are>??

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Here you go Carbon - first dyno of cold side upgrade .....

https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-major-horsepower-upgrades-93/first-rx8-club-greddy-turbo-making-more-than-300-hp-170884/

carbonRX8

iTrader: (1)

Über cool. Trying to get there, but still working out kinks in my ATR maps. Not even tuning yet.

carbonRX8

iTrader: (1)

Anyone willing to make a few comments on my timing that I cobbled together from teh stock maps and generalized info from the forum? I was mistakenly running on a stock timing map under boost. Hopefully I didnt break anything.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

I'm running a few more degrees in the mid range than you and similar up top . Can't say if that is a good thing or not - but have had no issues with it .

just remembered - I did run a lot more retarded timing at first and found my egts were higher than optimal . After some discussion with MM i increased it to where i'm at now and found egts came down a good 20 deg c

carbonRX8

iTrader: (1)

Well, I tried it out with an updated MAF scale and it feels good. The car sounded very raspy at load and just felt odd. Now the car sounds deeper. I will do a few days of data collection to get my MAF complete and then address the timing later. I think that I have done about 20% of the total work needed to get the car going from scratch. I prolly put 100 hours in so far just gettin the maps to a point that will drive the car safely. At least, I think I am safe for now. I flogged the car pretty hard on a stock timing map unknowingly. I guess that is how it goes. THanks to Chickenwafer for the heads-up.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

wow - stock map !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! at what psi ?

carbonRX8

iTrader: (1)

P2=5-8. Unknown at the UIM.

I know. Could have been some bad ****.

This is why there are so few folks with zero experience tuning on the ATR. I highly recommend letting an expert do the work.

On the other hand I wouldn't even trade for **** and beer for doing this myself .

shadow1

Hey carbon - I assume you are logging knock (or kncok retard). Overly aggressive timing will result in big time knock. Depending on how your boost comes on you will need to back off from the stock naturally aspirated timing.

carbonRX8

iTrader: (1)

^The knock sensor, I am told, doesnt work so well on a rotary. Basically, but the time it senses anything, it is too late.

I have found another issue that is going to derail my return to form. I just discovered that one of the upgraded injectors that I added is a low impedance injector. The stock pcm is likely not able to handle this low resistance and could fry. Maybe. The other two injectors that I added are high impedance.

This was likely fine when I bought the injectors as I was running the microtech Int-x which can handle the low resistance. Now I need to determine if this is a big enough issue to tear the car apart and install new, high impedance injectors.

I should note that I have been driving around for weeks now with no issue...yet.

shadow1

You can buy a resistor box to make the low impedance injectors, high impedance. I do not believe there are low impedance 780cc injectors available. 650cc is about the limit, but I could be wrong. (I did a quick google and no high impedance 780cc injectors came up)

shadow1

Found some - RC engineering makes a 750cc high impedance injector. The other option is to get another pair of the Siemens 650cc injectors that you currently have.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

did you read this thread ?
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...ghlight=timing

carbonRX8

iTrader: (1)

yeah. That is how I put together my maps. The biggest issue is that most of that information is based on load equating to pressure (MAP system). Your map on there was most helpful. But it is a bit of a stretch to safely convert from a RPM vs boost timing map to a RPM vs Calc. load timing map. There was just enough info to extrapolate.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

I think this might be wrong . I think what Carbon has is more like a T04E 50 trim
54mm inducer 75mm exducer .

Can you confirm Carbon ?

carbonRX8

iTrader: (1)

I cannot. However, my understanding is that the Greddy T618Z is similar to the TD05-18G, which is is a 50 trim with a 50.5mm inducer, but I dont know if this is the inducer that I have. In anycase, I should have what ever inducer I started with from the T618Z. The new cold side is now a 20g which is a 68mm exducer. The 3071r isnt even 75mm on the coldside.

Now if you are asking if I actually measured anything, I did not.

shadow1

A TD05-18G is a much larger turbo than the Greddy snail. The upgraded wheels might be similarly sized but the Greddy housing is tiny. Much smaller than the TD05-16G in my Evo.

carbonRX8

iTrader: (1)

Oops, I think I meant the TD0618g. That is at least the map being used in comparison. Slightly different inducer. 52.5mm

Again, I have no primary measurements to back up these "facts." Nor do I know the specs of the turbo that is now whispering sweet nothings into my engine.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

I scaled the pic in your first post and came up with around 54mm which would make it bigger than a 20g .

carbonRX8

iTrader: (1)

Ok, That was skillful. Not sure how you did that.

Just to understand a little more an to clarify the nominclature, the TD0618g, and possibly the T618Z, have 50.5inducer/68mm exducer compressors, yes?

The 20g should be 52.6/68? I am assuming that we can see the inducer on the compressor, but not the exducer. Where are you measuring? Fin tip to fin tip?

I assume that the hotside is a 60 trim (EDIT: actually, the hotside is a 72 trim by my calculation. Hotside trim on the GT3071r is 80)? I really dont know if it is 50 or 60. For the TD06, the smaller (exit) side of the turbine wheel (exducer is where the gasses exit and are therefore is he radius of the face of the wheel that you can see on the hotside. On the coldside the gas enters "facing" the wheel and exits on the edge. Hence the inducer radius is the radius of the wheel that you can see on the cold side. Confusing change in name.) is listed as 55.1. On my hot side the exducer diameter looks much larger than the inducer on the coldside. So 52mm seems more resonable than 54mm.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

I used the theory of relativaty , LOL

shadow1

Although Greddy uses Mitsu turbo components, they do not use Mitsu nomenclature. Garrett has their own nomenclature as well. BTW a TD06 tubo is a very large turbine housing. It is comparable size wise to Garrett T3 turbines. No way any RX8 turbo is comparable. There is more to turbo sizing then just the wheel sizes. BTW i'm just helping carbonrx8 out. I'm not trying to be a know it all but I hate it when greddy turbo RX8 guys actually think that their "18G" turbo is bigger than what is installed in an Evo from the factory. That is simply incorrect.

Bryan@BNR

Shadow1,

RX8 greddy turbo has a bigger turbine wheel than the evo turbo. The evo turbo is a TD05 version with a TD05H turbine wheel. The compressor on the evo is a evo style 16g. It is as efficient as the 18g but the inducer is smaller than the 18g. The turbine on the Greddy 8 turbo is a TD06H turbine which is waaaay better than the 5h that is in the evo. All bearings and internal parts are interchangable in the 05/06. The Evo turbine housings are 10cm2, just like the rx8 just a totally different design. Evo is twin scroll and the rx8 is single scroll. Compressor housings are about equal to one another.

I prefer the evo compressor wheel, but neither is a good application for a wankel engine. I have a EVO3 16G in my 323 GTX in the picture. That thing is about perfect for that little 1.8 liter engine. 22 psi by 3800 RPM. It throws you back in the seat so hard it isn't even funny :D.

05rex8

iTrader: (7)

The turbocharger guru speaketh!