Major New Product Announcements: Pre-release info
01-20-2008, 12:16 PM
#52
Momentum Keeps Me Going
It's gasoline combustion, any useful Lamda would be in sensor range, no? How would that limit anything? If the WB isn't used during closed loop as you say (but it is) and it doesn't matter during open loop certainly, then why would it be installed (a retorical ?)?
01-20-2008, 12:19 PM
#53
Good point Spin9K - I have just never seen it logged so I wasn't sure what the deal was.
P.S. I didn't SAY anything - I SPECULATED. When I am unsure on a subject I try to make that clear.
P.S. I didn't SAY anything - I SPECULATED. When I am unsure on a subject I try to make that clear.
Last edited by Kane; 01-20-2008 at 12:21 PM.
01-20-2008, 12:35 PM
#54
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great news! can't wait to see this little guy in action
01-20-2008, 01:18 PM
#56
RX-8 = Japanese MG
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I like your style, Hymee!
If you've hacked the entire PCM is there some Mazda engineer somewhere with a fat Swiss bank account now?
Can we also tell the PCM to pop open the secondary and tertiary ports for boost at all RPMs, thus getting more power at lower RPMs and ridding us of those #!*% lean spikes when the PCM pops them open ala stock/NA tuning?
This also means the PCM will chase AFR targets on a per gear basis, which slays another tuning gremlin!
Well done you!!!
If you've hacked the entire PCM is there some Mazda engineer somewhere with a fat Swiss bank account now?
Can we also tell the PCM to pop open the secondary and tertiary ports for boost at all RPMs, thus getting more power at lower RPMs and ridding us of those #!*% lean spikes when the PCM pops them open ala stock/NA tuning?
This also means the PCM will chase AFR targets on a per gear basis, which slays another tuning gremlin!
Well done you!!!
01-20-2008, 02:25 PM
#57
The pcm is pretty strong on getting to the "perfect a/f" of 14.1---which is exactly what you DONT want with FI. The trims are accumulative. Talk to RB.
Now maybe they have found a way around this and still maintain all the pcm's flexability in reference to climate/temps and elevation. That would be great and exactly what we need, but if that is not the case, then it's a problem---you are right back to having to have an individual tune, seasonal tunes, location tunes---just like for example-- the INT X.
Plus--the trims will mean you will have to pull your room fuse(clear the trims) frequently or the pcm will put you in a area you didnt think you would go too.
Just changing some settings the pcm uses has been done and continues to be done. It can be done through the ob2 port. What hasnt been done yet is keeping the adaptive function of the pcm, the monitoring capacity of the pcm, yet to be able to control the trimming enough for FI applications.
I hope they have solved this!
oldscdragger
Now maybe they have found a way around this and still maintain all the pcm's flexability in reference to climate/temps and elevation. That would be great and exactly what we need, but if that is not the case, then it's a problem---you are right back to having to have an individual tune, seasonal tunes, location tunes---just like for example-- the INT X.
Plus--the trims will mean you will have to pull your room fuse(clear the trims) frequently or the pcm will put you in a area you didnt think you would go too.
Just changing some settings the pcm uses has been done and continues to be done. It can be done through the ob2 port. What hasnt been done yet is keeping the adaptive function of the pcm, the monitoring capacity of the pcm, yet to be able to control the trimming enough for FI applications.
I hope they have solved this!
oldscdragger
01-20-2008, 02:51 PM
#59
Kane--I think the trimming will carryover to open loop mode also. Thats the problem. Long term fuel trims are stored in memory as it becomes part of the basic injection duration calculation, it is not erasable like stft's. ST fuel trims erase when you turn the ignition off, LTFT does not. To erase them you have to pull the room or disconnect the battery. I think you will find in a FI car that the MAF is going to have a higher percentage of cutting fuel than you think---even in open loop mode.
Please tell me they have fixed this and I will start the celebration
!
oldscdragger
Please tell me they have fixed this and I will start the celebration
!oldscdragger
01-20-2008, 02:54 PM
#60
I would have to see the tables the PCM uses to adjust fuel trims - but if you are correct; then if your closed loop tuning does not create and STFT (which it shouldn't if you aim for Stoich) - then there are no trims to impact the open loop.
But either way - I agree once Hymee chimes in there will (I hope) be cause for celebration.
But either way - I agree once Hymee chimes in there will (I hope) be cause for celebration.
01-20-2008, 03:36 PM
#61
Power!!
Congratulations Mark!!
It's great to see an independent guy like yourself bringing a product to market that almost none of the other big ECU guys (Cobb excepted) have been able to do.
And Cobb isn't even going to release with tuning capability or FI.
Go Hymee!!
It's great to see an independent guy like yourself bringing a product to market that almost none of the other big ECU guys (Cobb excepted) have been able to do.
And Cobb isn't even going to release with tuning capability or FI.
Go Hymee!!
01-20-2008, 08:34 PM
#63
Kane--I think the trimming will carryover to open loop mode also. Thats the problem. Long term fuel trims are stored in memory as it becomes part of the basic injection duration calculation, it is not erasable like stft's. ST fuel trims erase when you turn the ignition off, LTFT does not. To erase them you have to pull the room or disconnect the battery. I think you will find in a FI car that the MAF is going to have a higher percentage of cutting fuel than you think---even in open loop mode.
Please tell me they have fixed this and I will start the celebration!
oldscdragger
Please tell me they have fixed this and I will start the celebration
!oldscdragger
That is what I'm doing with the EMU and why my LTFT is at a "fixed" number based on the actual injector trim from nominal.
01-20-2008, 08:52 PM
#64
If we can adjust the lookup tables for the A/F the PCM expects to see at various load/MAF points...then we should be able to leave the closed loop control alone for a lot of areas.
I guess it will depend on what we can actually change in the programming.
I guess it will depend on what we can actually change in the programming.
01-20-2008, 09:15 PM
#65
The PCM will do whatever you tell it to do with this tool.
If you want the A/F target to be 11.1:1 at 4.6v of MAF output, then it will apply the appropriate table to the problem and come up with an injector duration. LTFT and such is merely a tool in the PCMs arsenal to adjust for the variations in fuel delivery in a mass produced vehicle.
If you want the A/F target to be 11.1:1 at 4.6v of MAF output, then it will apply the appropriate table to the problem and come up with an injector duration. LTFT and such is merely a tool in the PCMs arsenal to adjust for the variations in fuel delivery in a mass produced vehicle.
01-20-2008, 09:46 PM
#66
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There wasn't really an answer to this question.
Is there expected to be a stock map, and what gains should be expected from this. Ergo, can we expect, right out of the box to have a RB Flash like gain, iwth infinite tuning potential from there?
Is there expected to be a stock map, and what gains should be expected from this. Ergo, can we expect, right out of the box to have a RB Flash like gain, iwth infinite tuning potential from there?
01-20-2008, 10:01 PM
#67
Registered
Congrats Hymee!
Look forward to hearing more details. I don't want to make it sound like it was simple, but it does seem like you may have bought drinks for the right folks at SevenStock!!
Looking forward to seeing you there again!
Look forward to hearing more details. I don't want to make it sound like it was simple, but it does seem like you may have bought drinks for the right folks at SevenStock!!
Looking forward to seeing you there again!
01-20-2008, 10:04 PM
#68
I am trying not to sound stupid here, but obviously I do not understand.. Are all the actual tables changed and the systems that try to get the car to stoich now recognize the new value as the "new" stoich?
I understand that ltft are not built in open loop but doesnt the stft gathered in closed loop operation influence the tables used for open loop running--hence the adaptive nature (within a certain %) of the pcm?
Or is the learning part of the pcm removed entirely? If the learning capacity is removed then wouldnt it be the same as a stand alone PCM as far as engine performance is concerned?
Or does the stft etc now all try to get to a implanted stoich and will ignore the 14.7 that was there?
oldscdragger
I understand that ltft are not built in open loop but doesnt the stft gathered in closed loop operation influence the tables used for open loop running--hence the adaptive nature (within a certain %) of the pcm?
Or is the learning part of the pcm removed entirely? If the learning capacity is removed then wouldnt it be the same as a stand alone PCM as far as engine performance is concerned?
Or does the stft etc now all try to get to a implanted stoich and will ignore the 14.7 that was there?
oldscdragger
01-20-2008, 10:12 PM
#69
The lookup tables for the A/F ratio change...so the PCM makes the A/F to the new value...not the stock values.
The good thing is the knock routines from the knock sensor will work..and pull timing etc if it detects knock.....very nice thing to have for FI on this engine
The good thing is the knock routines from the knock sensor will work..and pull timing etc if it detects knock.....very nice thing to have for FI on this engine
01-21-2008, 04:21 AM
#73
Shifty Bastard.
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Well done boys, great effort in getting this up......it's obviously been a long hard road and you both deserve a big slap on the back for persisting with it.
Cheers
Cheers
01-21-2008, 04:51 AM
#75
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Just when i thought id made up my mind and move on to my next ride you drag me back to the option of a properly running tuned Superchager 
.
with a recalibrated tune up
Well done Hymmster
Cheers
Michael
.with a recalibrated tune up
Well done Hymmster
Cheers
Michael
Last edited by erx8s; 01-21-2008 at 04:57 AM.