Log Manifold (SFR/Esmeril) Vs Tubular (turboblown) Turbo Manifolds, and setups
12-28-2010, 01:44 PM
#1
Log Manifold (SFR/Esmeril) Vs Tubular (turblown) Turbo Manifolds, and setups
Like the titles says, what are the pros and cons of each system
and which would be easier to tune for,
In a piston engine the tubular manifold shows better results over a log type manifold, but a rotary system is different especially the renisis with its middle port being linked to each Rotor.
I have only seen a race header from racing beat that divides the center port.
I am hoping Jeff will chime in as he has now had the opportunity to tune both types of systems
and which would be easier to tune for,
In a piston engine the tubular manifold shows better results over a log type manifold, but a rotary system is different especially the renisis with its middle port being linked to each Rotor.
I have only seen a race header from racing beat that divides the center port.
I am hoping Jeff will chime in as he has now had the opportunity to tune both types of systems
Last edited by FazdaRX_8; 12-29-2010 at 01:21 AM.
12-28-2010, 02:16 PM
#2
I actually don't have enough data to speak authoritatively on the advantages of a tubular manifold over a "log" manifold in a top-mounted turbo system.
Certainly, packaging is a major constraint in either design and, as you noted, the Renesis' center port is already "linked" internally, so I don't know that separating it makes much of a difference.
Getting the front and rear exhaust to the turbo somewhat separately would intuitively seem like a better idea.
There are other differences between the kits you mention that are worth noting, however.
Certainly, packaging is a major constraint in either design and, as you noted, the Renesis' center port is already "linked" internally, so I don't know that separating it makes much of a difference.
Getting the front and rear exhaust to the turbo somewhat separately would intuitively seem like a better idea.
There are other differences between the kits you mention that are worth noting, however.
12-28-2010, 06:29 PM
#5
wastegate,
sfr = 46mm recirculated,
Esmeril = 44mm open to atmosphere, and so is turblown
the turbo sizes are different but each has different options
SFR = Precision t60, t62, t67
Esmeril = Precision 61, or Billit 62mm
Turboblown = T3 1.06 GT35R aka o4E 60 trim w/ a .96 P-trim turbine
what kind of difference is there between the T4 Divided vs T3 Divided hotside housings
I am thinking the two could be spool time vs heat
SFR seems to have the smallest of the 3 Intercoolers,
Intake Temperatures compared to ambient would be interesting Data between the kits.
custom MAF Housings, For SFR, and it looks like a AEM MAF housing for the other two
sfr = 46mm recirculated,
Esmeril = 44mm open to atmosphere, and so is turblown
the turbo sizes are different but each has different options
SFR = Precision t60, t62, t67
Esmeril = Precision 61, or Billit 62mm
Turboblown = T3 1.06 GT35R aka o4E 60 trim w/ a .96 P-trim turbine
what kind of difference is there between the T4 Divided vs T3 Divided hotside housings
I am thinking the two could be spool time vs heat
SFR seems to have the smallest of the 3 Intercoolers,
Intake Temperatures compared to ambient would be interesting Data between the kits.
custom MAF Housings, For SFR, and it looks like a AEM MAF housing for the other two
Last edited by FazdaRX_8; 12-29-2010 at 01:08 AM.
12-28-2010, 10:04 PM
#7
I'm sure many of you are well-versed on the various manufacturer's nomenclature, but could we use actual trim numbers instead of things like "p-trim" which are totally meaningless unless you already know what it stands for?
Trim = (inducer^2/exducer^2)*100
Trim = (inducer^2/exducer^2)*100
12-28-2010, 11:51 PM
#8
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P-trim wheel (2.544/2.922) = 76 trim
Turblown allows the user to pick the turbo if they want.
" Hand built in house, we offer custom turbo systems available for any year and model RX-8. We design proper turbo setups around your needs and the use of your vehicle using only the best components available. Most major components such as the turbo can be changed as each kit is built to your needs. The basic tier 1 kit will reach a reliable 300rwhp using the stock ignition system, clutch and coolant system. Our Turbo system consists of the below listed components.
A T4 57 Trim Garrett To4E turbocharger offers extremely fast spool and a top end that never runs out of airflow.
Our 3 into 1 custom made 321SS turbo manifold outperforms log style manifolds offering better response and a broader torque curve.
A custom steel motor mount bracket to accommodate our free flowing turbo manifold.
A TiAL MVS 38mm v-band waste gate and an open dump tube.
A 3" 304SS downpipe that employs a 3" flex bellow for engine movement.
Custom Stainless oil & coolant feed/return hard lines are included to eliminate heat related failures of commonly used rubber hose.
A custom fabricated front mounted intercooler using a genuine Garrett Core. It includes T-bolt clamps with high quality silicone couplers.
An oil metering pump block off kit & relocation bracket.
A coolant surge tank relocation bracket.
A protective 3M Gentex wiring harness thermal sleeve.
A custom aluminum thermostat upper and lower hard line assembly is included to prevent heat related failures of the turbo system by eliminating vulnerable stock rubber counterparts. A new lower radiator hose is included.
An ambient air intake system featuring a recirculated blow off valve that is designed to ensure proper mass air flow sensor operation and the highest possible flow characteristics.
A Walbro 255lph drop in fuel pump, and fuel injector modification service is included. This service satisfies fuel requirements for 400whp and requires core injectors up front for modification.
New Leading 9 heat range spark plugs Due to packaging constraints this Turbo Kit requires premixing of injected fuel with two stroke oil as well as relocation of the battery. In addition we highly recommend a Cobb AccessPORT ECU upgrade with a custom MazdaManiac calibration. E
A Black Halo Racing ignition coil upgrade is recommended for all power levels but generally required for applications above 300whp.
Heat management coatings, Inconel heat shield enclosures, polishing, clutch upgrades, and water/alcohol injection systems available at additional cost.
Turbo kits are completely flexible based on the purpose of your vehicle and projected budget. Turbos can be swapped for different units, however most stock port RX-8s will never flow enough to use a larger turbo. Please contact us if you would like more information on our kits."
http://www.turblown.net/store/index.php?productID=81
12-29-2010, 12:22 AM
#10
q-trim (the other popular choice) is 75, BTW.
The turbine I use is 84. Bigger, right?
That should say something.
That something is that trim is a useless number unless you know the actual turbine wheel size.
Even though the trim is larger, my turbine wheel is 60mm. The "p" trim is 64mm.
The "q" trim is 68mm.
EDIT - Just in case some of you miss the snarkyness of this post, I guess I should clarify things in pointing out that the turbine in the Turblown system is slightly higher flowing than the one I employ.
Now, back to your regular misunderstanding...
The turbine I use is 84. Bigger, right?
That should say something.
That something is that trim is a useless number unless you know the actual turbine wheel size.
Even though the trim is larger, my turbine wheel is 60mm. The "p" trim is 64mm.
The "q" trim is 68mm.
EDIT - Just in case some of you miss the snarkyness of this post, I guess I should clarify things in pointing out that the turbine in the Turblown system is slightly higher flowing than the one I employ.
Now, back to your regular misunderstanding...
Last edited by MazdaManiac; 12-29-2010 at 01:41 AM.
12-29-2010, 01:21 AM
#11
Our 3 into 1 custom made 321SS turbo manifold outperforms log style manifolds offering better response and a broader torque curve.
http://www.turblown.net/store/index.php?productID=81
http://www.turblown.net/store/index.php?productID=81
except for the one that was done with partial throttle, running around in another thread
12-29-2010, 05:52 AM
#12
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I'm wondering how well does Mawnee's manifold do 
Looks good for me
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-major-horsepower-upgrades-93/mawnees-custom-turbo-build-173808/page4/
Looks good for me https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-major-horsepower-upgrades-93/mawnees-custom-turbo-build-173808/page4/
12-29-2010, 09:53 AM
#14
Originally Posted by mazdamaniac
EDIT - Just in case some of you miss the snarkyness of this post, I guess I should clarify things in pointing out that the turbine in the Turblown system is slightly higher flowing than the one I employ.
Now, back to your regular misunderstanding...
Now, back to your regular misunderstanding...
12-29-2010, 12:42 PM
#17
Interesting,
perhaps this is why racing beat stuck with there 3 runner header instead of there 4 equal length runners, No gain and twice the cost....
this isn't to say that a Tubular manifold is bad, just not necessary in a Renisis?
CSL mawnee's Manifold worked out great for him, he has a dyno somewhere in that thread, with a poor tune but still made 300, I believe.
Jeff are you remote tuning or on site tuning the turblown system?
perhaps this is why racing beat stuck with there 3 runner header instead of there 4 equal length runners, No gain and twice the cost....
this isn't to say that a Tubular manifold is bad, just not necessary in a Renisis?
CSL mawnee's Manifold worked out great for him, he has a dyno somewhere in that thread, with a poor tune but still made 300, I believe.
Jeff are you remote tuning or on site tuning the turblown system?
12-29-2010, 12:47 PM
#18
q-trim (the other popular choice) is 75, BTW.
The turbine I use is 84. Bigger, right?
That should say something.
That something is that trim is a useless number unless you know the actual turbine wheel size.
Even though the trim is larger, my turbine wheel is 60mm. The "p" trim is 64mm.
The "q" trim is 68mm.
Now, back to your regular misunderstanding...
The turbine I use is 84. Bigger, right?
That should say something.
That something is that trim is a useless number unless you know the actual turbine wheel size.
Even though the trim is larger, my turbine wheel is 60mm. The "p" trim is 64mm.
The "q" trim is 68mm.
Now, back to your regular misunderstanding...
is there some kind of book or online reference that has these "x" Trims?
12-29-2010, 05:42 PM
#19
Administrator
RB tested 5 or so different header versions before settling on the one they sell. I've held them all. there is only one way which makes better power and that way would not pass carb so its pointless for them.
12-29-2010, 09:10 PM
#20
so what was the non-carb way that made power? with the number of people who gut their cat or fit race pipes you think RB would add the "offroad use" only clause, like all their other parts seem to have and market it.
12-29-2010, 10:18 PM
#21
Administrator
What's funny is that Fred mentioned it a long time ago before we even saw RB's pipes. Hymee even built one basically the same way as RB built there's. I think its in his dyno video. You have to collect it way back about or past where the CAT sits stock. I dont recall if I have the actual length written down anywhere or if the amount was enough to even bother with the annoyances that would bring to packaging/fitment.
Ray/Jeff/ BHR probably has done it as well.
Ray/Jeff/ BHR probably has done it as well.
Last edited by zoom44; 12-29-2010 at 10:25 PM.
12-29-2010, 10:25 PM
#22
Administrator
there'd be no point, I think, to collecting that late with a turbo. someone will correct me if it woudl matter.
i dont' know if Team tried it. I know he tried a bunch before settling on his log.
i dont' know if Team tried it. I know he tried a bunch before settling on his log.