Harlan's Impossible turbo build.
01-23-2013, 09:08 PM
#101
Just got back from a 400 mile trip. Aluminum tape still looks new, it isn't burnt up and the red lettering on it is still there. I have had the smell of burning adhesive, but I also took the tape right to the edges of the wrap so it's probably where it actually touches the exhaust. I'll put it on jackstands in a couple of days and check closer and take pictures.
Next time I wrap it I'll use silica fiber based wrap and I'm working on an idea for layers of aluminum foil between wraps. May just get some now and try a short section as a test.
Next update will be a few days. Need to go to work/rest.
Next time I wrap it I'll use silica fiber based wrap and I'm working on an idea for layers of aluminum foil between wraps. May just get some now and try a short section as a test.
Next update will be a few days. Need to go to work/rest.
01-30-2013, 11:11 AM
#102
Got my ign-1a coils set up last night. Pardon the mess this is not final installation, it's just a prototype! This morning I wired in ion-sense and looked at the feed on an oscilloscope. I only wired into the L1 coil and there is noticeable noise from the other coils, but the peak for combustion is obvious. I'll spend the rest of the day refining till I can have some useable data, but just knowing it works is a relief!
Oh and the aluminum tape is still holding up.
Oh and the aluminum tape is still holding up.
01-30-2013, 05:40 PM
#103
Cleaned up the signal a bit, but after setting the scope to trigger on T1 it didn't look right. I think I'm just catching the ignition coil ringing. Need more time to figure out what's going on.
AP dwell table is confirmed ms*256.
AP dwell table is confirmed ms*256.
Last edited by Harlan; 01-30-2013 at 07:54 PM.
02-01-2013, 12:18 PM
#105
Changing circuit design. Delphi based system didn't give me the results I wanted. Parts on order, working on other aspects of the build until they get here. May be a little while until next update.
Edit: also those AEM coils are monsters. Pulled the trailing boot off to try and change the curve in the scope and the coil kept firing the spark plug until the boot was completely clear by >1/4" and then it proceeded to light me up like a Christmas tree.
Edit: also those AEM coils are monsters. Pulled the trailing boot off to try and change the curve in the scope and the coil kept firing the spark plug until the boot was completely clear by >1/4" and then it proceeded to light me up like a Christmas tree.
Last edited by Harlan; 02-01-2013 at 12:22 PM.
02-14-2013, 05:42 PM
#108
Sometimes you need to take a step back to figure out what you are doing wrong. I thought the IGN-1A coils were perfect, but they have some sort of internal spark gap. They show no continuity with the ohm meter, so they also carry no current to allow for ion sensing.
So instead of using the coil to charge a capacitor for ion sensing, I used an (ahem) external power supply. I only used it on the L1 spark plug, and because I don't have any 20kv diodes yet I can't attach the coil. So the trace is of a chamber with no leading plug firing, and the engine is running like crap, but it is a reading of chamber current!!! Should be able to clean up the signal with a couple filters and use it to detect knock. Also should be able to scope it and use it for tuning. Progressing quite nicely.
Here's the video, the trace isn't very visible but it's getting dark and I don't feel like redoing the video in the dark.
So instead of using the coil to charge a capacitor for ion sensing, I used an (ahem) external power supply. I only used it on the L1 spark plug, and because I don't have any 20kv diodes yet I can't attach the coil. So the trace is of a chamber with no leading plug firing, and the engine is running like crap, but it is a reading of chamber current!!! Should be able to clean up the signal with a couple filters and use it to detect knock. Also should be able to scope it and use it for tuning. Progressing quite nicely.
Here's the video, the trace isn't very visible but it's getting dark and I don't feel like redoing the video in the dark.
02-15-2013, 06:37 PM
#109
I hope everyone realizes how sweet this can be?
Harlan--is this a good link in trying to understand what you are doing?
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...d4c6wrVd3tTTLg
For those of us that have trouble putting it together?
Harlan--is this a good link in trying to understand what you are doing?
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...d4c6wrVd3tTTLg
For those of us that have trouble putting it together?
02-15-2013, 07:29 PM
#110
That link is informative, but these are better:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...,d.b2I&cad=rja
or this one and associated links:
ion sensing? anyone here have a clue?
compared to the results found by this one using conventional pressure detection:
In Chamber Pressure Testing - Page 2 - NoPistons -Mazda Rx7 & Rx8 Rotary Forum
At this point I'm just glad to have a recognizable curve. Cleaning it up and processing comes after I get the hardware set up better. Should detect inaudible knock easily.
Major update on the build should be coming soon. I bought some ev6 flex fuel injectors after being told by a very reliable source that they are nearly bulletproof for metering water and corrosive chemicals. Have the bungs, and will begin building the intake when I have time. Nice to know that I'm a little less out in left field that I thought I was.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...,d.b2I&cad=rja
or this one and associated links:
ion sensing? anyone here have a clue?
compared to the results found by this one using conventional pressure detection:
In Chamber Pressure Testing - Page 2 - NoPistons -Mazda Rx7 & Rx8 Rotary Forum
At this point I'm just glad to have a recognizable curve. Cleaning it up and processing comes after I get the hardware set up better. Should detect inaudible knock easily.
Major update on the build should be coming soon. I bought some ev6 flex fuel injectors after being told by a very reliable source that they are nearly bulletproof for metering water and corrosive chemicals. Have the bungs, and will begin building the intake when I have time. Nice to know that I'm a little less out in left field that I thought I was.
02-17-2013, 10:30 AM
#111
Thanks for the links.
I found this one that includes a study on the effect of humidity ( water injection) on the ion formation and PPP. Its old research but still pertinent?
Really cool stuff.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...AACr9L2BOlMzCw
I found this one that includes a study on the effect of humidity ( water injection) on the ion formation and PPP. Its old research but still pertinent?
Really cool stuff.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...AACr9L2BOlMzCw
02-20-2013, 05:19 PM
#112
That's the site that got me started on this. Saab's study was groundbreaking.
Got some more testing done, still don't have the trace as clean as I want. A mystery signal keeps coming and going. Gonna rethink everything and try to get a better signal. Good news is that it does work on a rotary, and it can probably be done with LS2 coils. Still waiting on the big surprise to get here so I can do a major update.
Got some more testing done, still don't have the trace as clean as I want. A mystery signal keeps coming and going. Gonna rethink everything and try to get a better signal. Good news is that it does work on a rotary, and it can probably be done with LS2 coils. Still waiting on the big surprise to get here so I can do a major update.
03-08-2013, 07:32 PM
#114
i might have missed this in the thread somewhere, but you can run water thru the fuel injectors, it turns out volvo did it in the 80's
Group A Volvo Specs
its a little confusing, but they added another ecu and AFM/injectors just for the water, so they had a fuel ecu (CIS!), water ecu and ignition ecu.
like the website says they ran something like WM50 with some machine shop cutting oil... apparently that is enough to keep the rust away!
they also have traction control, which is neat in 1983!
Group A Volvo Specs
its a little confusing, but they added another ecu and AFM/injectors just for the water, so they had a fuel ecu (CIS!), water ecu and ignition ecu.
like the website says they ran something like WM50 with some machine shop cutting oil... apparently that is enough to keep the rust away!
they also have traction control, which is neat in 1983!
05-14-2013, 01:29 PM
#115
Miniupdate: Compression on the blue 04 was bad. Rebuilt engine, reinstalled engine, car wouldn't idle/ run right. Only about 30min run time on engine. Checked apex seals free through the leading spark plug hole, and one apex seal is missing from the front rotor.... Time for the re-rebuild. I sure hope that apex didn't do horrible damage to the sides/housing, but only one way to know for sure.
Yes Volvo and others have used fuel injectors for water injectors. Also flex fuel injectors will run straight (distilled) water with no ill effects.
Trying to get enough energy to pull the engine I just put in.
Yes Volvo and others have used fuel injectors for water injectors. Also flex fuel injectors will run straight (distilled) water with no ill effects.
Trying to get enough energy to pull the engine I just put in.
05-15-2013, 02:58 PM
#117
Just rechecked the apex I thought was gone, guess it was a combination of the angle and the light, but the seal is still there. Guess that's what happens when you storm off and drink a beer instead of checking for sure. Now all I need to do is deflood the engine.
BTW the stock battery terminal connectors suck. They should be part of the first $100 thread, because they are just that bad.
BTW the stock battery terminal connectors suck. They should be part of the first $100 thread, because they are just that bad.
05-17-2013, 11:10 AM
#119
Good news/bad news. Think I've figured it all out, my side seals were just too tight. Tried to go as close as I could to 2thou on the seals. Set up a jig with my drill press and an old rotor. The problem is that .002 is very hard to read accurately with our side seals and the arc you cut for the corner seal, so what I ended up doing was grind the seal until it would barely pop in and out easily when evenly compressed in the slot. I knew then that the break in would be a little sketchy because of the close tolerances, but now I'm paying the price.
The engine starts (albeit hard) and runs for about 3-5 minutes then shuts down almost like a loss of fuel. I was pulling my hair out until one right before it shut down time it started running on what sounded like one rotor face (very uneven but repetitive). After cooling off it starts and runs again. I think what's happening is my side seals are still binding a little with the corner seals and eventually they get stuck in the compressed position and the engine shuts down on low compression. The good news is that it's getting slightly better with every run. At first I had to pull start the thing and it wouldn't run below 2500 rpm, now it will start and almost idle normal until it warms up. A slow and steady break in and this engine should be drivable, or something will break and I'll be tearing it apart, either way the problem will resolve itself.
Let this be a cautionary tale about grinding your own seals! Go a little beyond pops in and out easily!
BTW Denny, I think your inbox is full.
The engine starts (albeit hard) and runs for about 3-5 minutes then shuts down almost like a loss of fuel. I was pulling my hair out until one right before it shut down time it started running on what sounded like one rotor face (very uneven but repetitive). After cooling off it starts and runs again. I think what's happening is my side seals are still binding a little with the corner seals and eventually they get stuck in the compressed position and the engine shuts down on low compression. The good news is that it's getting slightly better with every run. At first I had to pull start the thing and it wouldn't run below 2500 rpm, now it will start and almost idle normal until it warms up. A slow and steady break in and this engine should be drivable, or something will break and I'll be tearing it apart, either way the problem will resolve itself.
Let this be a cautionary tale about grinding your own seals! Go a little beyond pops in and out easily!
BTW Denny, I think your inbox is full.
05-23-2013, 05:48 PM
#120
Well, guesswork is over. Front stationary bearing is gone, took the e-shaft with it. Everything else is fine, seals were actually starting to free up and make good compression. 
At this point, I'm not sure why the failure occurred. Maybe I nicked it when installing the e-shaft, maybe I missed something that contaminated it. One thing is for sure, I messed up.
Now to redo everything right.
At this point, I'm not sure why the failure occurred. Maybe I nicked it when installing the e-shaft, maybe I missed something that contaminated it. One thing is for sure, I messed up.
Now to redo everything right.
05-25-2013, 09:25 AM
#124
Time to fess up. Yeah, these were the bearings I coated. Looks like the tolerances closed up too much causing oil starvation. Can't specifically blame the dry film lubricant, it works as advertised, but the directions have you burnish with scotch brite to remove any excess then let any remaining run in. This didn't work well enough for me, now I'm using some emery cloth and getting a better finish/fit. Funny thing is that the dry film lubricant saved the other bearings.
Also worth noting, fitting side seals is different on the Rx8. Because they are wedged and not rectangular they fit differently when fully compressed than they do when they are just inserted in the slot. So when you are test fitting them, be sure to fully compress them to ensure proper clearance.
Getting this engine back together and maybe back into the car when I have time off next week.
Also worth noting, fitting side seals is different on the Rx8. Because they are wedged and not rectangular they fit differently when fully compressed than they do when they are just inserted in the slot. So when you are test fitting them, be sure to fully compress them to ensure proper clearance.
Getting this engine back together and maybe back into the car when I have time off next week.
02-28-2014, 11:02 AM
#125
Been gone for a while involved with other things, now I'm trying to finish this build.
I have the experimental engine back in the car, it has near zero clearance side seals and break in is proving difficult. Starts and idles fine, but when it gets hot the side seals start binding and it loses compression. It might wear in the seals, it might not.
A call to rotary resurrection may be in my future. I have more cash then time right now and I just want this done.
The rear mount turbo idea has been trashed. It was becoming a really ugly baby and I've learned enough from the effort to make a front mount turbo meet my goals.
So I now have an agency power exhaust, and the piping from a PTP turbo kit. Still planning on no inter-cooler.
Out of everything I've done the knock safety system and the water injection control have worked great. So I'm focusing my efforts on what I can make work.
Oh and fiberglass exhaust wrap covered in foil tape does hold up well. Had it on for over a year and still looked ok when I took it off.
I have the experimental engine back in the car, it has near zero clearance side seals and break in is proving difficult. Starts and idles fine, but when it gets hot the side seals start binding and it loses compression. It might wear in the seals, it might not.
A call to rotary resurrection may be in my future. I have more cash then time right now and I just want this done.
The rear mount turbo idea has been trashed. It was becoming a really ugly baby and I've learned enough from the effort to make a front mount turbo meet my goals.
So I now have an agency power exhaust, and the piping from a PTP turbo kit. Still planning on no inter-cooler.
Out of everything I've done the knock safety system and the water injection control have worked great. So I'm focusing my efforts on what I can make work.
Oh and fiberglass exhaust wrap covered in foil tape does hold up well. Had it on for over a year and still looked ok when I took it off.