Going turbo with minimal funds ok?
09-28-2010, 07:48 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Going turbo with minimal funds ok?
Hello. I am new to these forums. It took me a while to decide to post here because I know you guys can be extremely mean to new people, but hopefully my case will be different.
I plan on buying an rx8 and throwing the greddy turbo kit on it and leaving it producing ~235rwhp, which seems to be about what it does out of the box from what I have read. I plan on doing it perfect from the beginning, using the fixes and recommendations posted throughout this forum. I will have the BHR ignition system on it and hopefully the Cobb AP to tune it, though not myself because I know nothing about that. I live in SoCal, and from the SoCal thread it seems like I am surrounded by rotary specialists, so hopefully this will not be an issue. I also am not stupid, and realize not only the amount of maintenance and attention rotaries need in general, but also the additional attention I will need to pay to the car after it has been turbocharged.
My question is this: Should I even bother looking in to turboing it without having enough excess money for a rebuild/replacement engine?
This will be my only car, and as such I obviously need it to work. I will not have enough to rebuild the engine + enough for the turbo kit for some time. I have read the overboosted overlords and "turbo owners fill this out" thread and seen many cases where people have used this kit with no blown engines, so I know it can be done. However, I would really appreciate first hand opinions from the pros here as to whether or not you would recommend this.
Thank you in advance! Reassure me
I plan on buying an rx8 and throwing the greddy turbo kit on it and leaving it producing ~235rwhp, which seems to be about what it does out of the box from what I have read. I plan on doing it perfect from the beginning, using the fixes and recommendations posted throughout this forum. I will have the BHR ignition system on it and hopefully the Cobb AP to tune it, though not myself because I know nothing about that. I live in SoCal, and from the SoCal thread it seems like I am surrounded by rotary specialists, so hopefully this will not be an issue. I also am not stupid, and realize not only the amount of maintenance and attention rotaries need in general, but also the additional attention I will need to pay to the car after it has been turbocharged.
My question is this: Should I even bother looking in to turboing it without having enough excess money for a rebuild/replacement engine?
This will be my only car, and as such I obviously need it to work. I will not have enough to rebuild the engine + enough for the turbo kit for some time. I have read the overboosted overlords and "turbo owners fill this out" thread and seen many cases where people have used this kit with no blown engines, so I know it can be done. However, I would really appreciate first hand opinions from the pros here as to whether or not you would recommend this.
Thank you in advance! Reassure me
Last edited by Kushhau5; 09-28-2010 at 08:09 PM.
09-28-2010, 08:43 PM
#4
I divide by zero
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Spring Hill, FL
Posts: 1,192
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
09-28-2010, 08:53 PM
#9
Registered User
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: San Diego, Ca
Posts: 335
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you cant afford to replace or rebuild your engine then save more and research more. There is just too many factors to take into consideration when you go FI with this engine.
09-28-2010, 09:07 PM
#11
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You guys seem to not understand my request. So let me rephrase it.
I could search and read threads about the greddy kit (which I have) and thus formulate my own opinion on whether it is worth the risk to turbo without the money for engine replacement (which I also have). Yes, I could do this, but I am afraid my opinion may not be accurate.
So, what I am asking for is opinions from you people who have actually been around this for years and have had first hand experience in formulating this opinion. If this is beyond your capacity of basic helpfulness to be able to accomplish, then I'm sorry, I have obviously asked the wrong community.
While I was writing this post, I got some serious opinions, and I thank those people. It looks like its not a good idea from what you guys are saying, so I probably won't do it till i get my career started (rx8 is my college graduation present to myself). I am the kind of person that is extremely skeptical when it comes to financial commitments, so I felt that it wouldn't hurt to ask.
Thanks people that actually took the time to think.
I could search and read threads about the greddy kit (which I have) and thus formulate my own opinion on whether it is worth the risk to turbo without the money for engine replacement (which I also have). Yes, I could do this, but I am afraid my opinion may not be accurate.
So, what I am asking for is opinions from you people who have actually been around this for years and have had first hand experience in formulating this opinion. If this is beyond your capacity of basic helpfulness to be able to accomplish, then I'm sorry, I have obviously asked the wrong community.
While I was writing this post, I got some serious opinions, and I thank those people. It looks like its not a good idea from what you guys are saying, so I probably won't do it till i get my career started (rx8 is my college graduation present to myself). I am the kind of person that is extremely skeptical when it comes to financial commitments, so I felt that it wouldn't hurt to ask.
Thanks people that actually took the time to think.
Last edited by Kushhau5; 09-28-2010 at 09:11 PM.
09-28-2010, 11:37 PM
#12
Registered
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 240
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You have to think about what would happen if you blew your engine before you could pay to replace it. As your only car you would be SOL unless you could afford a beater to drive while you saved up money on the side. Otherwise you may end up having to sell the turbo kit to pay for rebuilding the engine.
Save money for a while until you can afford to replace the engine and get better accustomed to the car so you can appreciate it more when it has some extra power.
Save money for a while until you can afford to replace the engine and get better accustomed to the car so you can appreciate it more when it has some extra power.
09-29-2010, 02:14 AM
#13
How about viewing it from a different perspective?
Don't focus on the turbo kit and AP\Coils only. You seem to leave the catalyzer alone but i don't know how long it will last with the turbo kit which, on the other hand, is designed to run with it.
Remove the catalyzer and you raise the pressure. This means that you need a boost controller and a bov to keep it running as you intend.
The intake is not the best to do a MAF based tune so the purchase of an aem intake modified to fit the turbo is usually a wise choice.
Add some general reliablity mods and "routines" like premixing and you have the final price of a pretty reliable base.
That's like 1500$ more than what you thought to spend in the first place. However if you don't act like an idiot and the tune is solid you shouldn't need a new engine anytime soon by doing it this way imho.
Also consider that, fixes or not, the greddy turbo will need to be rebuilt sooner or later. There's no way around that (except changing it with something better).
Don't focus on the turbo kit and AP\Coils only. You seem to leave the catalyzer alone but i don't know how long it will last with the turbo kit which, on the other hand, is designed to run with it.
Remove the catalyzer and you raise the pressure. This means that you need a boost controller and a bov to keep it running as you intend.
The intake is not the best to do a MAF based tune so the purchase of an aem intake modified to fit the turbo is usually a wise choice.
Add some general reliablity mods and "routines" like premixing and you have the final price of a pretty reliable base.
That's like 1500$ more than what you thought to spend in the first place. However if you don't act like an idiot and the tune is solid you shouldn't need a new engine anytime soon by doing it this way imho.
Also consider that, fixes or not, the greddy turbo will need to be rebuilt sooner or later. There's no way around that (except changing it with something better).
09-29-2010, 02:14 AM
#14
How about viewing it from a different perspective?
Don't focus on the turbo kit and AP\Coils only. You seem to leave the catalyzer alone but i don't know how long it will last with the turbo kit which, on the other hand, is designed to run with it.
Remove the catalyzer and you raise the pressure. This means that you need a boost controller and a bov to keep it running as you intend.
The intake is not the best to do a MAF based tune so the purchase of an aem intake modified to fit the turbo is usually a wise choice.
Add some general reliablity mods and "routines" like premixing and you have the final price of a pretty reliable base.
That's like 1500$ more than what you thought to spend in the first place. However if you don't act like an idiot and the tune is solid you shouldn't need a new engine anytime soon by doing it this way imho.
Also consider that, fixes or not, the greddy turbo will need to be rebuilt sooner or later. There's no way around that (except changing it with something better).
Don't focus on the turbo kit and AP\Coils only. You seem to leave the catalyzer alone but i don't know how long it will last with the turbo kit which, on the other hand, is designed to run with it.
Remove the catalyzer and you raise the pressure. This means that you need a boost controller and a bov to keep it running as you intend.
The intake is not the best to do a MAF based tune so the purchase of an aem intake modified to fit the turbo is usually a wise choice.
Add some general reliablity mods and "routines" like premixing and you have the final price of a pretty reliable base.
That's like 1500$ more than what you thought to spend in the first place. However if you don't act like an idiot and the tune is solid you shouldn't need a new engine anytime soon by doing it this way imho.
Also consider that, fixes or not, the greddy turbo will need to be rebuilt sooner or later. There's no way around that (except changing it with something better).
09-29-2010, 03:43 AM
#15
NO A/C :(
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Posts: 656
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's worth it, its not as complicated as you are making it out to be. You can get all the advice in the world but will never fully understand what needs to be done until you actually try it.
Personally, I suggest you buy a cheap daily like a miata for a rainy day.....
Personally, I suggest you buy a cheap daily like a miata for a rainy day.....
09-29-2010, 07:16 AM
#16
I would'nt turbo a daily driver if you have limited funds. I would definately recommend you having some money stashed away for a turbocharged 8 that is being used as a daily driver. Just my opinion.
09-29-2010, 07:36 AM
#17
3-wheeler
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 2,734
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Turbocharging a daily driven car is a pretty risky feat. The GReddy kit is the most proven kit despite some of the shortcomings the kit has provided. Reliability is the most important thing with any daily driven car and adding a turbo can certainly cause issues with that.
I don't think assuming a blown motor is in the future of every FI RX8 is a fair shake at the car. A modest FI setup with proper (read: safe) tuning and regular checks would easily do the job. The other aspect is the responsibility of the driver increases because your installer won't be there 100% of the time to help you with problems.
Plus, IF anything happens then you are seriously under the gun to get it fixed quickly. Engine rebuilds don't happen fast and if you happen to find someone who will do it for you in a weekend it will be rather expensive.
So, if you are looking for someone to tell you that it's 100% safe you're not going to hear that from anyone. The safest thing to do is not modify the car at all. So, unless you're willing to accept the life of a modified car and the headaches that come with it I wouldn't bother.
I don't think assuming a blown motor is in the future of every FI RX8 is a fair shake at the car. A modest FI setup with proper (read: safe) tuning and regular checks would easily do the job. The other aspect is the responsibility of the driver increases because your installer won't be there 100% of the time to help you with problems.
Plus, IF anything happens then you are seriously under the gun to get it fixed quickly. Engine rebuilds don't happen fast and if you happen to find someone who will do it for you in a weekend it will be rather expensive.
So, if you are looking for someone to tell you that it's 100% safe you're not going to hear that from anyone. The safest thing to do is not modify the car at all. So, unless you're willing to accept the life of a modified car and the headaches that come with it I wouldn't bother.
09-29-2010, 09:27 AM
#18
I'm not sure what the odds are of blowing your engine going FI. I mean - if done perfectly - probably very low, but nothing is ever done perfectly. The risk of mistakes is there. Say the odds of something significant happening that is turbo related which is not always a blown engine:
1. Blow the engine (lose the fuel pump, lean out, pop/poor tune/overheating)
2. car runs like crap (OMG MY TUNE IS AWFUL)
3. shop screws up
4. shred your clutch/trans driving like a jerk
5. other oddball mechanical failure
6. blow the turbo
All of the above can happen, especially 6. Maybe the odds of one happening in the next year after turbo is 25%. Maybe that's high. Look at the scenario:
75% you have a pretty cool car that is now faster
25% you are absolutely boned
Now take that cash and put it into the AP/ignition anyway, do a couple handling mods, and put some in the bank.
98% you have a pretty cool car that is maybe slightly faster with a good AP tune
2% **** happens, but you aren't boned.
No one on here will ever tell you to do something short-sighted like buy the car, go straight to turbo, have no safety net, and ruin yourself financially. Some of us have enough set aside to do the stupid stuff and I won't tell you I haven't. However, at no time was I thinking "man, if this engine goes, I'm boned."
1. Blow the engine (lose the fuel pump, lean out, pop/poor tune/overheating)
2. car runs like crap (OMG MY TUNE IS AWFUL)
3. shop screws up
4. shred your clutch/trans driving like a jerk
5. other oddball mechanical failure
6. blow the turbo
All of the above can happen, especially 6. Maybe the odds of one happening in the next year after turbo is 25%. Maybe that's high. Look at the scenario:
75% you have a pretty cool car that is now faster
25% you are absolutely boned
Now take that cash and put it into the AP/ignition anyway, do a couple handling mods, and put some in the bank.
98% you have a pretty cool car that is maybe slightly faster with a good AP tune
2% **** happens, but you aren't boned.
No one on here will ever tell you to do something short-sighted like buy the car, go straight to turbo, have no safety net, and ruin yourself financially. Some of us have enough set aside to do the stupid stuff and I won't tell you I haven't. However, at no time was I thinking "man, if this engine goes, I'm boned."
09-29-2010, 02:03 PM
#19
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks so much for the replies guys!
In hindsight, my idea seems kind of ridiculous. A risk is a risk and if I didn't have the money to fix a mishap then I might as well not take it. I guess I was just hoping you guys would magically tell me its ok.. but I'm glad you didn't. Besides if I wait longer then maybe i can afford the MM upgrade or somethin for ultimate fun :D For now it'll prolly just be the ignition and some appearance mods.. wanna make her run well and look good first I guess.
But yea.. thanks again! When it comes down to it I'll be sure to come back here and post my own build thread
Oh and just a sidenote to make me seem less stupid and reckless. I wouldn't have been too screwed. I room with some of my best friends and none of them are full time so I would've had access to a bunch of other cars if I needed. Also my family is pretty fortunate and they would bail me out if I was in a situation like that, but then again it'd be pretty ******* for me to cause that situation... so again, in hindsight, it was something I probably shouldn't and normally wouldn't have considered. Wishful thinking! Thanks for humoring me :D You guys are more tolerant than I thought haha
In hindsight, my idea seems kind of ridiculous. A risk is a risk and if I didn't have the money to fix a mishap then I might as well not take it. I guess I was just hoping you guys would magically tell me its ok.. but I'm glad you didn't. Besides if I wait longer then maybe i can afford the MM upgrade or somethin for ultimate fun :D For now it'll prolly just be the ignition and some appearance mods.. wanna make her run well and look good first I guess.
But yea.. thanks again! When it comes down to it I'll be sure to come back here and post my own build thread
Oh and just a sidenote to make me seem less stupid and reckless. I wouldn't have been too screwed. I room with some of my best friends and none of them are full time so I would've had access to a bunch of other cars if I needed. Also my family is pretty fortunate and they would bail me out if I was in a situation like that, but then again it'd be pretty ******* for me to cause that situation... so again, in hindsight, it was something I probably shouldn't and normally wouldn't have considered. Wishful thinking! Thanks for humoring me :D You guys are more tolerant than I thought haha
09-29-2010, 02:54 PM
#21
Triangular Bee Hive
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Socal, LA
Posts: 779
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Enjoy the ride for now, and read more on the forum, you'll appreciate how much you can learn from people's experiences.
And welcome to the club.
Cheers~
And welcome to the club.
Cheers~
Last edited by ShinkaEvo; 09-29-2010 at 02:57 PM.
09-29-2010, 02:57 PM
#22
Rx-8 the protege
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Bronx ''NY"
Posts: 460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think that it's really about taking your time and saving and looking for deals not everything is a rush I just caught a great deal on a used kit for 1100 bux but it's the first thing on a list of many!
I plan on following the footsteps of those befor me like brettus, nuke, and many others who gathered there parts slowley and build a very reliable kit so if u can save as much as possible and don't rush
I plan on following the footsteps of those befor me like brettus, nuke, and many others who gathered there parts slowley and build a very reliable kit so if u can save as much as possible and don't rush
09-29-2010, 03:01 PM
#23
Power!!
