Renesis_8

is this hp figure with the "best" tune with the Motec? best as in the highest you got with some tuning
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Rx-A-Ho

Yes it is I was using a straight 6%... damn you Hymee that should have been in your orginal post

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

Sorry mate. I was trying not to give too much away in the original post!! I did say "about", yeah? Then I realised that 0.3% was worth about 10HP, so I was more specific. Hope you are cool now.

Cheers,
Hymee.

guitarjunkie28

you talking about ultimate potential, or stock port potential?

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

That is "fully tuned" for maximum power (WOT). Both in terms of spark and fuel. Perhaps some fine tuning could smooth the curve out a bit, but we are not talking more than 1 or 2 HP either way on the peak.

Basically, tuning was taken to a "maximum", then pushed a bit further to see the results, and also backed off a touch to see the effects. This was both in terms of ignition timing and fuelling. And the tuner is an absolulte guru. Tuned the first 200MPH rotor in the world.

Cheers,
Hymee.

zoom44

but you say the port were all "wired" open. since the system was disabled it could not operate the way it was designed and therefor didnt make all the power it other wise could have. without using the stock airbox and without fully utilising the S-DAIS the only thing you have shown is that your engine only made @222 without those items

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

Umm....

At the top end, where maximum power is made, all those things are open anyway. The S-DIAS and VDI are all "intact". Working at their intended position for maximum power at high RPM's.

Are you saying if we put the MAF, MAF tube, stock air-box, air filter, and V-FAD on we are going to make more power? I dunno if I want to fund another day of dyno time just to find that out, when we are ultimately going to force the air in with a blower anyway.

Cheers,
Hymee.

zoom44

also forgot to mention- its been noted by myself and many others that the engine seems to be stronger when you "lead the throttle" rather than just going WOT. so another discrepancy to point out then is your not using the PCMs control of the electronic throttle- add that to my objection raised int he last post

also dont forget that peak torque and the rpm it was found for before and after the extractors please

Rx-A-Ho

No, I can never forgive you ... you will shortly recieve a bill for my therapy.

Cheers, bro...

Renesis_8

If we are talking about peak power only here, i dont think the figure with S-DAIS would differ that much from 222hp since all the ports are open after the tertiary intake opens. With the S-DAIS, you'd probably see a little more average power.

But I think his point is that 222hp is what it made at the dyno with a custom tune that is near the raw potential of the renesis he tested at that state(w/o intake + S-DAIS, etc). With the stock tune, the hp would be a lot lower, and 222 is already lower than advertised 232
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zoom44

all i am saying is that since these things are not utilised the test only shows what your engine makes without them. it doesnt show anything about anyone elses engine. but thats not your point is it? your just getting baselines and tuning time for your FI kit.

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

Ummm....

The SDAIS valve was in place. The only "valve" not in the equation is the VFAD - the one that sits behind the front bumper.

The PCM doesn't control the throttle as much as you think it does. You need to look at a few things with your sCANalyser. A properly tuned engine will make more power at WOT than at less than WOT. If it makes more power, then it is just tuned better at the lower throttle openings than it is at WOT. This is not some backyard test cell. I wouldn't care to count how many V8 Supercar engines have been tested on this rig. You can see in the test procedure the dyno holds it at WOT and 4000 RPM for 3 seconds while thing equalise.

This test is measuring the real output of this standard engine (and exhaust combo) using the best engine management and optimal tune. If there is gains to be made from fine tuning etc, they are going to be minimal. Nothing like the big jump the headers gave.

Cheers,
Hymee.

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

Right-on. With the S-DAIS / VDI / 6-port "fully operational" (i.e. closed in the mid range at the appropriate points), there will be more mid-range power. The top will be no different than what we measured.

Cheers,
Hymee.

zoom44

S-DAIS is the whole intake system which you had dis-abled. Im not argueing your results Hymee- just that no one should go running off on this tangent again to Mazda crying foul since your Test isnt using the whole system front to back all electronics etc.

brillo

Hymee,

first off, nice job with the testing, those are cool pics. I don't doubt you guys know what your doing, but I really preplexed how your fully tuned engine with headers would dyno so low when I've seen dyno's of cars on a dynojet doing 205/212hp to the wheels.

Any idea how you can reconcile this? Again, your results are your results, but the wide descrepency in power measurements has to make you wonder.

Renesis_8

Haha, maybe he got a bad engine from mazda, all the FI kit developers get the same thing lol, like richard paul from the other thread =d
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zoom44

kidding aside- i dont think Mark's ever demonstrated the issue that Richard's did

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

I never said what my results where, you guys deduced it from my hints

I did that on purpose, course I knew there would be dyno wars. I haven't seen any dyno's out of north america that are not inertia drum based dyno's. This is an electronic dyno, and that load cell in the picture is a precise instrument that measures force. I.e. it is a strain gauge. Force at a turning moment - i.e. torque. When the torque and the RPM is know, the power is then known.

Charlie - yes you are correct that the results shouldn't be used as a basis for anyone to launch legal action against Mazda. That is not the point of the excercise. However, I find it slightly misleading to say the SDIAS is "disabled" as the maximum power we measure would be in the same configuration as if the PCM was in control, and the valves opening when they should. We are getting a real-world result compared to an engine running with the factory PCM in control of the valves. We are just giving it a more appropriate amount of fuel and ignition for maximum power. So if anything, this engine would make less power using the factory ECU and calibration. But then we would additionally have all the problems associated with DSC (wheels not turning) etc... Yawn.

Cheers,
Hymee.

zoom44

where's that max torque number i actually just now got to watch the vid- very nice Hymee thanks!

yes my only intent with the above posts is to try to curb any posting of threads about HP claims etc dyno etc DSC etc... yawn

dmp

Zoom - still standing by Mazda's 238fwhp claim???

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

The number are on a sheet of paper that is not in my possession right now. Well - ahem, I left it at home.

No worries. Sorry I misinterpreted your "critisisms". It's all good.

But I still stand by the max power and the effects on S-DIAS and TBW. :p Actually - it still was TBW - the thottle is controlled by that red *** on the dyno panel (when in manual mode) and by the dyno software when a test is happening.

Cheers,
Hymee.

Blue87Sport

Hey mate, throw another shrimp on the extractor!

Very impressive video, not so impressive numbers.

What was the a/f ratio at WOT on that run?

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

Center pipe was smokin' for sure

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

I thought the glowing red header pipe(s) was the best part!

rexi

Hymee, did the extractors have the stock cat installed as per the stock manifold, or did the extractors set up exclude the cat? Just trying to work out whether the 14 hp increase was by headers alone or by headers and cat elimination?

Regards Rexi