Engine Dyno testing of Renesis
04-21-2006, 10:37 AM
#1
Engine Dyno testing of Renesis
Hi all,
As part of our on going development of the RX-8's "Renesis" 13B engine, we are undertaking testing of the engine on a professional Engine Dyno cell.
Today, after some extensive work in making a stand for the Renesis (that can also accomodate 20B and 26B engines) I did a trial fit of the engine to the dyno facility.
Here are some pics of the engine set up and connected to the drive shaft of the dyno.
Actual testing to be carried out soon. Testing will be for exhaust studies as well as supercharger kit development.
I wonder what odds I can get for 177kW with a "stock" 6-port Renesis.
Cheers,
Hymee.
As part of our on going development of the RX-8's "Renesis" 13B engine, we are undertaking testing of the engine on a professional Engine Dyno cell.
Today, after some extensive work in making a stand for the Renesis (that can also accomodate 20B and 26B engines) I did a trial fit of the engine to the dyno facility.
Here are some pics of the engine set up and connected to the drive shaft of the dyno.
Actual testing to be carried out soon. Testing will be for exhaust studies as well as supercharger kit development.
I wonder what odds I can get for 177kW with a "stock" 6-port Renesis.
Cheers,
Hymee.
04-21-2006, 10:41 AM
#2
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I'm assuming from your above statement that you will disclose to us whatever your results are? A lot of us are of course very interested to see the results.
04-21-2006, 10:44 AM
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FINALLY! An answer to the 177kW question! WOO HOO! I assume that you'll be running the stock PCM to answer that question. Do you know how it will react to being disconnected from the rest of the car, ie. wheel speed sensors, etc?
MD
MD
04-21-2006, 11:16 AM
#5
Go Texas Longhorns!
please dyno the stock engine with the stock ECU. I've heard a variety of things from some reputable sources and I would like to see how it shakes out for you.
My guess is the engine comes back with 230 HP (US)
My guess is the engine comes back with 230 HP (US)
04-21-2006, 12:21 PM
#8
RX8 and a Truk....
Originally Posted by Ryan13b
I feel a huge rash of lawsuits coming when the results are posted.
If a lawsuit didn't happen when RB got 216HP when THEY dyno'd a renesis, I doubt these results will mean anything legal.
04-21-2006, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by TeamRX8
how about locking this thread for results only so we don't end up with 50 pages of inane, pointless posts to dig through for the occasional gold nugget 
04-21-2006, 12:35 PM
#11
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^ C'mon. Be a sport. If it weren't for inane comments, there wouldn't be anything to this forum! Debating hypotheticals is all we've got! Besides, if history is any indication, we usually have to wait for months and months before results are available. (NOT referencing Hymee, but some of the others that have started projects and still haven't finished)
04-21-2006, 01:11 PM
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Hymee, this is what I always wanted someone to do.. this way it should be easier and faster to figure out what really works on this engine. Man the options, New intake Manifold if it will work or not, Exhaust work, etc. I know it can all be done with the engine installed, but man it's much simplier and faster this way.... Keep up the great job you are doing and please keep us posted....
04-21-2006, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by brillo
please dyno the stock engine with the stock ECU.
- you ask a Mazda engineer to disable PATS in the PCM
or
- you dyno with the car connected to the PCM and sitting outside of the dyno-cell (as some engine appraisal companies do) .
Hymee, you'd better start to dyno quickly, as I'm supposed to test "my" 6-port early May.
Cheers,
Fabrice
04-21-2006, 02:35 PM
#21
On the question of the ECU...
What "stock" ECU would you like me to use?
What flash (calibration) would you like me to use?
What "abuse protection" strategies in the ECU would you require to be "disabled"?
Then, if the answer to the last question results in one single change or trickery, then it isn't stock any more.
But how about we run the engine with a management system we have ultimate control over all aspects of operations? Then we can find out the true potential of the machinery. Then we can make physical changes (i.e. a header, a supercharger, a turbo, a throttle body...), and re-tune to suit, without anything getting in the way.
And then when we do finalise the re-tuning of the factory PCM, we can apply what we have learnt to that. But until then, I don't really see any point in using the factory "computer" for the moment. The only merit would be to proove or disprove the marketing claims. And that is not going to be anything that would hold water, would it? Just look at any dyno argument thread on any forum...
Cheers,
Hymee.
What "stock" ECU would you like me to use?
What flash (calibration) would you like me to use?
What "abuse protection" strategies in the ECU would you require to be "disabled"?
Then, if the answer to the last question results in one single change or trickery, then it isn't stock any more.
But how about we run the engine with a management system we have ultimate control over all aspects of operations? Then we can find out the true potential of the machinery. Then we can make physical changes (i.e. a header, a supercharger, a turbo, a throttle body...), and re-tune to suit, without anything getting in the way.
And then when we do finalise the re-tuning of the factory PCM, we can apply what we have learnt to that. But until then, I don't really see any point in using the factory "computer" for the moment. The only merit would be to proove or disprove the marketing claims. And that is not going to be anything that would hold water, would it? Just look at any dyno argument thread on any forum...
Cheers,
Hymee.
04-21-2006, 03:56 PM
#23
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Originally Posted by Hymee
On the question of the ECU...
What "stock" ECU would you like me to use?
What flash (calibration) would you like me to use?
What "abuse protection" strategies in the ECU would you require to be "disabled"?
....
What "stock" ECU would you like me to use?
What flash (calibration) would you like me to use?
What "abuse protection" strategies in the ECU would you require to be "disabled"?
....
When I worked at Ford in UK, we used to test with program-intent ECUs and strategies (=software). These ECUs were supplied with PATS (immobiliser) disabled. Sometimes, noise in the dyno-loom used to enable the PATS (if the ECU senses a transponder, or a signal looking like it, that's it!). The only way to carry on testing was to get a Visteon engineer to come and disable it with a special code, or supply a replacement...
Even the Ford documentation on the ECU strategy did not include any info on PATS.
At *** in Aachen, to perform their dyno-test on competition engines, they have to keep the ECU and engine harness connected (via an adaptor) to the vehicle which sits just outside of the cell, without engine. Then they use an EFI Technology (from Europe, noit the Inc. stuff) ECU to give them complete freedom to test all engine conditions.
Fabrice
04-21-2006, 04:07 PM
#24
No whoa's from me. Who said I was playing coy? Don't anyone believe for one second that I was the first person ("originally") to dispute the factory quoted figuers. No way, -ve Ghostrider.
I've said long, long ago, based on my very own chassis dyno tests, and a few rules of thumb, that the quoted figures might in fact be correct, and/or at least in the ball park.
What I am saying above, is that even if I do obtain "XXX" HP or kW at the flywheel, how much water does that hold in a lawsuite? Is there a national (internationally) accredited testing laboratory that will provde expert witness that my figures are correct, and that the manufacturers figures are false? Yes - we do have a national testing laboratory company in Australia (NATA www.nata.com.au), but I know of no NATA acreddited engine dyno facilities, and a quick search of that site does not reveal anything related to the measurement of engine power. Even a search on dynamometer only returns results related to load cell tensile testing of reinforced concrete structures. (Yes, I have Civil Engineering qualifications, so I know what that means )
What I will be using the initial results for, is a baseline for our own development. That is what a dyno is used for.
So I ain't going to hold back. I have go, now whoa. WOT for me, or dare I say "full steam ahead". LOL!
Cheers,
Hymee.
PS - If anyone wants to query or dispute any figures I get from the dyno, feel free. I had to push my way past 3 hi-spec V8 engines in various stages of construction, including a V8 supercar engine, and a DOHC Ford mill just to get into the dyno room. Then inside, I had to push a couple of other V8 engines out of the way, and even move some exhaust components of an offshore racing boat to one side. This is serious ****! I've seen things ranging from the worlds first 200MPH rotor on this dyno, to an F1 engine. I only hope to be able to produce something like this video, but with the Supercharged Renesis slotted in... http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...149644203&q=F1 We have the facility, anyone want to donate the video production
I've said long, long ago, based on my very own chassis dyno tests, and a few rules of thumb, that the quoted figures might in fact be correct, and/or at least in the ball park.
What I am saying above, is that even if I do obtain "XXX" HP or kW at the flywheel, how much water does that hold in a lawsuite? Is there a national (internationally) accredited testing laboratory that will provde expert witness that my figures are correct, and that the manufacturers figures are false? Yes - we do have a national testing laboratory company in Australia (NATA www.nata.com.au), but I know of no NATA acreddited engine dyno facilities, and a quick search of that site does not reveal anything related to the measurement of engine power. Even a search on dynamometer only returns results related to load cell tensile testing of reinforced concrete structures. (Yes, I have Civil Engineering qualifications, so I know what that means
)What I will be using the initial results for, is a baseline for our own development. That is what a dyno is used for.
So I ain't going to hold back. I have go, now whoa. WOT for me, or dare I say "full steam ahead". LOL!
Cheers,
Hymee.
PS - If anyone wants to query or dispute any figures I get from the dyno, feel free. I had to push my way past 3 hi-spec V8 engines in various stages of construction, including a V8 supercar engine, and a DOHC Ford mill just to get into the dyno room. Then inside, I had to push a couple of other V8 engines out of the way, and even move some exhaust components of an offshore racing boat to one side. This is serious ****! I've seen things ranging from the worlds first 200MPH rotor on this dyno, to an F1 engine. I only hope to be able to produce something like this video, but with the Supercharged Renesis slotted in... http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...149644203&q=F1 We have the facility, anyone want to donate the video production
Last edited by Hymee; 04-21-2006 at 04:12 PM.