stickmantijuana

yea, actually i made some measurements to see whether the cut-stock manifold will fit. it wasn't even close. to give you an idea, my first rotor housing is at the same spot as the first rotor housing of a stock renesis position. engine had to be lowered using flat oil pan with custom pick-up to make it fit in the tranny tunnel. that's all fine and good, but from logistic standpoint, it's a complete nightmare.

again, i just have two inches from the 3rd rotor to firewall to make the turn and go FORWARD, not up. there's no more room "up" until i'm at the second rotor. 2 inches leaves me 1.25 inches with the flange thickness. my next step is was to buy 1.75 inch thick flange and actually try to "port" the flange, but price of such flange became prohibitive.

another thought was to make the manifold out of steel, so i can keep the relatively thinner flange and still create good seal, but i heard this will heat up the charge air too much with heat soak.

i hate to cut firewal and possibly loose a/c. so i welcome any suggestions before i commit.

sephi, i checked out defined autoworks. are they local or in ohio? website says ohio.

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

Move the motor forward slightly .....will negate some of the fabrication nighmares...but create the need to redo a bunch of the custom motor mounts and such that are already done

Either that or pull the dash and start moving the stuff in there around to make enough room to make it fit

None of the options are great

dznutzuk

You don't need any more than an inch for the flange. Can't you find someone that can cut using water jet? It shouldn't cost too much, I could easily have it made but it would cost too much to ship it to you.


Moving it forward can't be done, there's no room for between the pulley and the subframe. If the engine was mounted higher than stock(which his isn't) he wouldn't have a problem.

angeljoelv

Oh yes it can.. Just need a little creativity and a good fabricator.

dznutzuk

Yeah, I was saying without cutting the subframe and moving the steering rack forward and etc.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

Well if there is actually room between the firewall sheetmetal and the interior parts, then you can clear out the area including paint etc.. Then using a torch with rosebud tip you can heat up the area where clearance is needed to a pliable ductile temp where it is light-red colored and then beat in the clearance with a 3 - 5# hammer.

angeljoelv

I know you know.. Im just busting your chops. BUT I did took my car apart at one point ( maybe 2 years ago) and fabed a new crossmember that actually enabled me to position the rack only about an inch further to the front compared to the OEM one. I went lower instead of forward. I the installed a bump steer kit to correct the vertical angle and the car runs PERFECT. 95% better than when we moved it forward. No bump steer, no funny feelings. Just perfect..
That is keeping the stock steering rack which we all know is very bulky. Rgonza installed a different one which is smaller and he told me he had no need of moving it forward at all, just lower like mine ( nothing that a bump steering kit cant fix). I rather do that ANY day than to break into my firewall.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

good to know.
od

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

There are advantages and disadvantages to doing either. A good fabricator can accomplish either effectively. I can show you plenty of fail for either method, but always due to lack of the proper tools and skills needed to be successful.

angeljoelv

I agree. Both ways could be done right or wrong. But if i have a good fabricator and since id have a choice, id still go for the crossmember. Like everything else, its a matter of personal opinion. Thats just mine.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

Sure, yet there are reasons for having the engine lower and further rearward too otherwise JIC et al wouldn't bother going to all that trouble. Which begs the question, how much room will it by you to convert to a dry sump setup and drop the engine as low as possible? Not an inexpensive proposition, but one more way to maybe skin the cat.


.

stickmantijuana

yea i thought about dry sumping to drop the engine lower, so i can clear the firewall, but it's just way too expensive.

my engine is actually mounted with the 12A front housing with welded tabs at the frame. i can technically cut the subframe entirely out as long as i can make provisions for the steering rack. there is a cross member as well, and it's holding up the turbo.

speaking of dry sump, have you heard of accusump? i'm thinking of installing it for my 20b. sounded pretty simple enough. i have a custom oil pan with trap door baffle which should work in theory but wanted to get accusump for a good measure.

btw, what is you guys' take on the making the lower manifold out of steel? i can ceramic coat it if that'd help. i pretty confident i can make the manifold with 1/4" steel flange which should be thick enough i was told... will the heat soak kill the engine response and power range? just wanted to gather your opinions.

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

Can't see it being worse than aluminum. If you ceramic coat it it should work fine. I think the biggest reason for aluminum is the weight reduction

stickmantijuana

actually i have an idea... i can epoxy & bolt steel flanges to the aluminum manifold i already have. what do you guys think? then i can ceramic coat the entire thing (inside and out) to ensure that none of the beads breaks off to enter the housing.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

^^ That idea sounds like fail waiting to happen IMO

There likely won't be any satisfactory "cheap" solution.

dznutzuk

If you had a dry sump, you could raise the engine higher and pass right over the subframe(pulling the engine forward) and using a nice stock intake. But then there's they issue with the front cover you're using for the engine mounting. So I say the cheapest and probably the easiest way(which will probably suit you) is cut off that damn flange and WELD a NEW ONE in it's place. Sure flow will probably(no one is 100% sure)fall a bit, but then again that's nothing a little boost can't cure!

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

no, you will not gain that much clearance distance

dznutzuk

Actually you would gain all the clearance you need, WGT Autodevelopments in the UK has done it like this. Stick I wouldn't worry too much about Scott's intake design, as I recall it was something like this:

This was made by PPRE for a Jetsprint four rotor which has 1,000hp.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

What you don't understand is that if he has to move the engine forward he might as well start over from scratch. Feel free to argue with and convince yourself otherwise.

dznutzuk

Yeah I do understand that, I already said that in a pm to Stick about that, but if you look at post #41 "So I say the cheapest and probably the easiest way(which will probably suit you)" and we'll just leave it at that.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

well you don't need a dry sump to pull if forward and have the manifold fit and even with a dry sump fitted by the time you pull it forward enough to do as you suggested then you are still faced with all the other issues that a forward mounted 20B encompasses. That's why Scott was trying to do it this way in the first place.

What I was really getting at though is that even dry sump in the rearward position that it's already in still won't gain much room relative to the cost. The typical dry sump plate that replaces the wet sump pan is pretty thick to help reduce engine flexure. The wet sump pan that Scott modified was already reduced substantially as compared to the typical 20B wet sump pan.

stickmantijuana

almost ready to fire up for the first time in years.

dznutzuk

Hoooooooooooooooooooraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!!!!!! !!!! It's about time bro! +100000000000000000000! Damn that ******'s mounted really far back in there. I hope you welded on a new flange? Just noticed that the alternator is so far out, he designed it to use the outer main pulley wheel, wow.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

there is no room for the alternator to sit in a further back position, at least not with that upper manifold

so what did you end up doing to finish the fitment?

stickmantijuana

i haven't addressed the manifold yet. i decided to go with one of the suggestions posted here: just cutting the existing manifold and welding on a thicker one. i've seen these 'square style' intake manifolds in car shows recently and once beads are sanded off, they actually looked great imho. i will be ceramic coating these inside and out. i'll figure it out whether it fails or not in a dyno with race gas with high psi i will most likely not need in all situations. if it fails, i may just make one with titanium or stainless steel, or pay $2-3k for a custom aluminum one. seems pretty pricey but that seems to be the going price quote for most custom intake manifold jobs

btw, who sells used rx8 parts nowadays? pretty much need all stock gastank parts.