Curt’s Gr8t 8 Turbo Build
Im fairly certain his... reaction is that virtual dyno's do not produce accurate enough numbers for his liking.
Even though physical dyno's range from dyno to dyno as well...
Now, what type of mesh is in the front of that grille? im a fan.
Travis
Even though physical dyno's range from dyno to dyno as well...
Now, what type of mesh is in the front of that grille? im a fan.
Travis
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edit: my apology for my frustration showing, I really have no hard feelings toward any person in particular, it was just a moment of reflection.
of course I’ve expressed on this forum many times my doubts about virtual dyno, but that’s not what my reply was about. Dyno’s have a very useful purpose, especially a dyno that can hold specific loading, ramp rate, and such. It’s funny that when it serves one purpose it’s mentioned how they all vary, yet when somebody posts up a hybrid Renesis dyno from Singapore then people fawn over it like an RX8 just drove on water without sinking when it serves that purpose. So yeah, it goes both ways.
However, I only asked because it seems like at some point Curt will want to see how it really measures up in a physical, real-world sense, even if only to validate the virtual estimates. It doesn’t really even have to be on a dyno. A log in 5th gear (1:1 ratio, so 4th gear with the Mazda 5-speed trans) at WOT will reveal plenty with the mph/sec acceleration rate. On the road though this has inherent risks that you can generally avoid on a dyno because of the speed involved.
One of the reasons the dyno results can vary is the ramp rate loading, which if you log an X gear run and then have a feel for the real world ramp rate is, it can be requested for the dyno operator to set that value to somewhat simulate it more accurately. So no, there was nothing nefarious or accusative in my comment that was only to signify my pondering on it just being virtual dyno only. Credit to Curt to have at least given me the benefit of doubt to have asked though.
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of course I’ve expressed on this forum many times my doubts about virtual dyno, but that’s not what my reply was about. Dyno’s have a very useful purpose, especially a dyno that can hold specific loading, ramp rate, and such. It’s funny that when it serves one purpose it’s mentioned how they all vary, yet when somebody posts up a hybrid Renesis dyno from Singapore then people fawn over it like an RX8 just drove on water without sinking when it serves that purpose. So yeah, it goes both ways.
However, I only asked because it seems like at some point Curt will want to see how it really measures up in a physical, real-world sense, even if only to validate the virtual estimates. It doesn’t really even have to be on a dyno. A log in 5th gear (1:1 ratio, so 4th gear with the Mazda 5-speed trans) at WOT will reveal plenty with the mph/sec acceleration rate. On the road though this has inherent risks that you can generally avoid on a dyno because of the speed involved.
One of the reasons the dyno results can vary is the ramp rate loading, which if you log an X gear run and then have a feel for the real world ramp rate is, it can be requested for the dyno operator to set that value to somewhat simulate it more accurately. So no, there was nothing nefarious or accusative in my comment that was only to signify my pondering on it just being virtual dyno only. Credit to Curt to have at least given me the benefit of doubt to have asked though.
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Last edited by TeamRX8; May 31, 2022 at 12:32 PM.
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Kevin, I haven't tracked my car ...at least to date. My objective in boosting my 8 was to enhance my daily driver. So, I have fun w/ it..., and am in boost for short durations..., but nothing like tracking it.
I have read that heat saturation at the side exhaust ports is a problem in sustained boosted situations, which can lead to premature side seal failure, but I have no experience to validate or disprove that theory. I would presume that engine "hardening", proper kit design and install, cooling, monitoring, proper fuel enhancement, etc. will all be *major factors* in any outcome in any regard. That said I suggest you inquire of those who have experience tracking their boosted 8s, e.g. Brettus and others, for their knowledge and experience.
I see you've already inquired in Brett's thread regarding his manifold. I believe he w/b a good resource on this related, but more specific topic of potential engine issues and concerns of tracking a boosted 8.
All the best.
I have read that heat saturation at the side exhaust ports is a problem in sustained boosted situations, which can lead to premature side seal failure, but I have no experience to validate or disprove that theory. I would presume that engine "hardening", proper kit design and install, cooling, monitoring, proper fuel enhancement, etc. will all be *major factors* in any outcome in any regard. That said I suggest you inquire of those who have experience tracking their boosted 8s, e.g. Brettus and others, for their knowledge and experience.
I see you've already inquired in Brett's thread regarding his manifold. I believe he w/b a good resource on this related, but more specific topic of potential engine issues and concerns of tracking a boosted 8.
All the best.
After considering the resale value and price for potentially blowing up the engine plus the annoyance of downed car at inappropiate times
I decided NOT to turbocharged the car, I will stay NA ,
With bolt ons it has decent enough power for me to thrash around the track
But good luck with your turbo builds!!100%
I maye have IR do a street port but not sure yet.
Wasn't sure how much HP is the street port worth
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I originally considered dynoing, in spite of the dyno type variations, as you say to formally validate the VD performance of my system. Somewhere...along the way I simply lost the interest or need for that validation, i.e. the benefit for the cost , time & $$, simply diminished. I understand for many ...this aftermarket recreation is highly competitive and metric driven, which stands to reason for kit or component manufactures, and/or those involved competitively, e.g. drag, auto-x, track, etc. It's easy to become swept up in the tidal swell of this "cultural think" rightfully associated w/ this recreation. No judgment, merely an observation.
However, from the beginning my goals were simply to boost my DD..., test myself, undertake and successfully execute the project resulting in a reliable invigorating DD at ~ 10 psi / 325 wHP. It's been a long journey. I've learned a lot, and w/ the assistance of this comminity...am satisfied to have exceeded those objectives ...excepting "reliability" which is still being campaigned. So, I'm good w/ the performance approximation of M/E, the application I trust to measure MAF and map fuel, to *approximate* HP/trq performance. Additionally, M/E's approximation is reasonably substantiated by the math. In cooler months ...when pushing her my system has pulled low 390s g/sec (i.e. ~52 lb/min).
General rule of thumb for approximating rotary wHP Is:
= (lb/min) x 10)/ 1.3
= (52 x 10)/1.3
= 400
Even if one allows for a VD approximation variance confidence at +/- 4% together these approximate somewhere ~ 400 - 415 max. wHP,
So, I'm happy to simply drive and enjoy her today. Now at journey's end ...I've actually considered selling her. ...............jking.
Anyway, my perspective...
My pleasure, brother, and appreciate your thoughtful clarification. - Psa 133.
Last edited by jcbrx8; May 31, 2022 at 10:07 AM.
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Fwiw... Juice is generally not considered worth the squeeze.
I hear you on why you don't see the need for a dyno.
For myself , I've managed to get my VD approximates very close to what I see on an actual dyno . This took a lot of experimentation and many actual vs VD comparisons to achieve however. You would have to go through a similar process to know your approximates are as close as you think they are. You may get quite a reality check.
But hey, if it feels like it's as fast as you want it to be .... that's all that really matters.
For myself , I've managed to get my VD approximates very close to what I see on an actual dyno . This took a lot of experimentation and many actual vs VD comparisons to achieve however. You would have to go through a similar process to know your approximates are as close as you think they are. You may get quite a reality check.
But hey, if it feels like it's as fast as you want it to be .... that's all that really matters.
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I hear you on why you don't see the need for a dyno.
For myself , I've managed to get my VD approximates very close to what I see on an actual dyno . This took a lot of experimentation and many actual vs VD comparisons to achieve however. You would have to go through a similar process to know your approximates are as close as you think they are. You may get quite a reality check.
But hey, if it feels like it's as fast as you want it to be .... that's all that really matters.
For myself , I've managed to get my VD approximates very close to what I see on an actual dyno . This took a lot of experimentation and many actual vs VD comparisons to achieve however. You would have to go through a similar process to know your approximates are as close as you think they are. You may get quite a reality check.
But hey, if it feels like it's as fast as you want it to be .... that's all that really matters.
; but today ...not feeling the need. 
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Refers to my previous analogy.
...I understand for many ...this aftermarket recreation is highly competitive and metric driven, which stands to reason for kit or component manufactures, and/or those involved competitively, e.g. drag, auto-x, track, etc. It's easy to become swept up in the tidal swell of this "cultural think" rightfully associated w/ this recreation. No judgment, merely an observation.
...
...
regardless, the only reason I asked is for some reason I had always thought you lived in Canaduh, but then saw you were near Memphis. Had always assumed a dyno shop up there may be few and far between, but not so now. Though in general there seem to be less around post-Wuhooflubug.
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regardless, the only reason I asked is for some reason I had always thought you lived in Canaduh, but then saw you were near Memphis. Had always assumed a dyno shop up there may be few and far between, but not so now. Though in general there seem to be less around post-Wuhooflubug.
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Well, I was on the fence regarding the eye lids and had been having issues with them remaining laying flat. Had the occasion to take a road trip ~450 mi. When I arrived... she was winking at me...one eye lid missing. So, pulled the other off. Gone.
On another note...this city has E85 carrying gas stations literally 2-3 miles in any direction. So convenient. I'm like a kid in a candy factory.
On another note...this city has E85 carrying gas stations literally 2-3 miles in any direction. So convenient. I'm like a kid in a candy factory.
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The "IC, rad, oil coolers, ducting" setup is performing well in its most severe challenge yet, ~100 °F ambient temp. In these temps daily driving vitals are:
- IATs: ambient +7 (+/- 1) °F
- ECT: 195 (+/- 5)°F
- Oil T: 195 (+/- 5)°F
- IATs: ambient +7 (+/- 1) °F
- ECT: 195 (+/- 5)°F
- Oil T: 195 (+/- 5)°F
Last edited by jcbrx8; Jul 8, 2022 at 11:38 PM.
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