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Progress update: Engine prep & re-installation into the engine bay... I know this is old hat for some, but since I could find no good best practice detail for re-installing the engine... I'll provide what worked well for me. First time engine re-install...multiple unsuccessful attempts mating the engine to the trans while suspended from the crane. :mad: I found the engine too heavy while suspended to have good precision & range of motion to "level & mate" to the trans. (unless perhaps you have a few other pairs of hands. I did not) Worked at it this way too long... :wallbash: Slept on it... :scratchhe & thought to use the crane only to position the engine in the bay onto a dolly, which would level & provide lateral movement of the engine. Then used a floor jack to adjust the height of the trans to "mate" the two. Worked perfectly...mated in ~ 5 min. by this method. :ylsuper: https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...a594051064.jpg Thermal cover delivered & installed. Engine ready for re-install. https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...247a933277.jpg Trans bell housing on flr jack for adjust-ability https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...458cd51585.jpg Dolly used to level and "mate" the engine to the trans... https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...35c0f2ca11.jpg ...going in. https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...d48d473a53.jpg I I V https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...a045c344e4.jpg Engine on dolly (built up a bit) ...and trans on flr jack for leveling to proper height... https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...40b723a158.jpg Mission accomplished: engine re-installed, mated & bolted up to the trans. :) |
Great you got it in ok but bummer it took so long.
Too late now ...but i've done this a lot of times............ 1/Jack geabox up as high as it will go ..then let it down maybe 10mm 2/Set engine at approx. same angle as gearbox by adjusting where you lift it from . 3/lift engine into hole lower then push rearward , lower more and push rearward etc etc 4/when at same height,angle and within 2" of each other ...slide her right in there . |
:fingersx:
Originally Posted by Brettus
(Post 4878327)
Great you got it in ok but bummer it took so long.
Too late now ...but i've done this a lot of times............ 1/Jack geabox up as high as it will go ..then let it down maybe 10mm 2/Set engine at approx. same angle as gearbox by adjusting where you lift it from . 3/lift engine into hole lower then push rearward , lower more and push rearward etc etc 4/when at same height,angle and within 2" of each other ...slide her right in there . I found it challenging hanging the engine at the just the right angle, and based on the position of the hangers it twisted as well. Once sat on the dolly & leveled... piece of cake. :cool: Holiday's over and work is a beast right now :mchase:. So, it'll likely be a couple of weeks before she's running again. Based on porting & a sealed e-mani I'm anticipating >10-15% improved spool and torque across the range. :fingersx: |
wow,
great job. food for thought. beers :beer: |
Originally Posted by swoope
(Post 4873777)
if it helps, and i know it doesnt. :) i am in the same boat, but i managed to do it without boost..
not sure how i am going to proceed. beers :beer:
Originally Posted by swoope
(Post 4878336)
wow,. great job. food for thought. beers :beer:
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Getting the engine and transmission together without damaging the pilot bearing is so hard using this method. I have been lucky a few times with everything going together. I have also struggled for hours only to take it all back out again so I feel your pain. You haven't lived until you installed an engine with a jack, hoist, and wood blocks....
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Originally Posted by strokercharged95gt
(Post 4878355)
Getting the engine and transmission together without damaging the pilot bearing is so hard using this method. I have been lucky a few times with everything going together. I have also struggled for hours only to take it all back out again so I feel your pain. You haven't lived until you installed an engine with a jack, hoist, and wood blocks....
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Small, but important update: I'll just call this "head-space"
Went out to make some progress on the build not in a good "head-space", i.e. not thinking clearly, creatively, patiently. Lesson learned. Task was simple: re-attach oil coolers feed & return lines to the timing cover and oil filter mount, respectively. Result: - Stripped the oil filter pedestal banjo bolt threads :dunce: - Had to remove the filter mount (the rear bolt is a bear to reach) :mad: - Re-tapped the threads (note; It's a 18x1.5mm thread size for anyone interested) - Re-mounted the pedestal - ~ A week later finally finished reattaching the oil cooler lines Also reattached the AC compressor Perhaps not an issue for experienced mechanics, but for novices, e.g. myself, avoid wrenching when not "clear". Some finished pics. https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...9cfbaf3f45.jpg The culprit oil mount banjo bolt threads. Difficult positioning of rear mount bolt (sandwiched in a tight space & under the hard black trans line) https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...026e017e41.jpg Oil cooler return line finally in....after another trip to Lowes to replace the front M8x1.25 mounting bolt which began acting squirrely. https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...023195d05e.jpg AC compressor in... and oil coolers feed line on the right. https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...9b26ff5d2e.jpg Driver side coming together... |
Bugger re the pedestal ..... next time (hopefully not) ..... put that tube on before you fit the engine.
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Originally Posted by Brettus
(Post 4878842)
Bugger re the pedestal ..... next time (hopefully not) ..... put that tube on before you fit the engine.
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Progress update: Misc progress... installed: - oil filter reloc head unit - e-shaft pulleys & belts - new coolant hoses around - ignition coils & wires - starter & power cabling - turbo oil drain - DP w/O2 sensor & WG - Successful pressure test of fuel rails & injectors https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...b567070104.jpg Pulleys and belts... https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...fd573741ff.jpg New coolant hoses around... https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...e22b5d5d70.jpg DP & WG (old pic...oil pan is not yet installed) |
nice build
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jcbrx8: Where did you get your coolant hose kit? And what's the reason for the earlier version / later version stickers? Series 1 RX-8 vs. series 2?
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Originally Posted by yomomspimp06
(Post 4878875)
nice build
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Originally Posted by TomD_Cincy
(Post 4878887)
jcbrx8: Where did you get your coolant hose kit? And what's the reason for the earlier version / later version stickers? Series 1 RX-8 vs. series 2?
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Progress update: Installed...
- Oil fill reservoir w/ Intake valve solenoid connectors - UIM w/ vac & charge hoses terminated at rear - Modified compressor intake section ...(This was a good idea to shorten..., but I s/h beaded the cut end as I ultimately did later in post #566) - Motor mounts - Oil pick up & pan https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...cfaa1af21a.jpg Oil fill reservoir w/ LIM intake valve solenoid connectors https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...9a55df0dbc.jpg UIM.......(w/ vac & charge hoses terminated at rear) https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...76bb64ac40.jpg Cut 1/4" off compressor intake section. Crazy simplified installation. ;) Unconcerned about the clamping nubs...when installed, space is so tight...it's not going anywhere. https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...0de8ca9dce.jpg Passenger side motor mount w/ compressor intake fitted https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...c9ee68c878.jpg Driver side motor mount... https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...01dd54648a.jpg Prepped sump area, and re-installed oil pick up https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...35964c4652.jpg Oil pan cleaned, prep'd (ultra grey) & installed. Turbo drain fitted. |
Progress update: Installed...
- Throttle body - Oil filter reloc remote unit - Turbo oil feed - Remaining wiring harness connections - Front crash bar & IC - CAI & turbo charge sections - BOV & recirc. Vac hoses: - oil filler - OMP - Jet Air Control hoses - BOV - WG & EBC controller - swapped in a 1.5# WG spring. Yet need to install the midpipe, add fluids, dbl-ck all connections, and she'll be ready to fire up tomorrow. :fingersx: https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...4b709b3f31.jpg Charge to IC section https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...3852101c46.jpg Decided to temporarily remount my IC in the front mount configuration. Before summer I'll investigate changing to a v-mount config. https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...7286675099.jpg Couple finished bay pics... https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...6e0582bc3d.jpg ... https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...736a61821b.jpg IC to engine bay section. |
Looks good man, just a quick thought (hard to tell from the angle of the picture), but will you be able to fit your strut brace back on with the oil filter and catch can located there?
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Originally Posted by RotaryMachineRx
(Post 4878994)
Looks good man, just a quick thought (hard to tell from the angle of the picture), but will you be able to fit your strut brace back on with the oil filter and catch can located there?
edit: couple pics from install: https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...681c6d3dcb.jpg Strut brace positioning...fits between the filter and catch can. https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...968a9ca27e.jpg ... . . |
Progress Update: Well, push started her, and drove around the block keeping ~3k rpm to keep from dying. ~7-10 min in I saw steam from the engine bay (the hood was off), and coolant temp rose rapidly, hit 230 for 1-2 sec and dropped. I immediately turned off the engine, and pulled over. Allowed it to cool ~15min, added coolant, push started again and drove back to the house...~a block. I presumed the coolant hose on the rear iron had come off based on where I saw steam. So pulled the UIM & oil filler reservoir, and found the coolant hose secure. Hmm... Searched for other sources of coolant leak, and found none. Reassembled everything, refilled temporarily w/water, and immediately saw the problem: water running from sm port on bottom of trans bell housing. So, clearly its a coolant issue w/in the engine. After some thought ... I suspect a cracked front iron. Through various research I understood that the irons could sustain torque well beyond 50 ftlb. Therefore, I torqued to ~46 ftlb. However, when torquing one stud I felt a "release". I think now that m/h been my front iron giving way. Good decision to purchase studs, poor decision to torque into the 40s ftlbs. So, the engines coming out again, to inspect, validate & correct the problem. Disappointed, but not discouraged... learning a lot...more to come. |
Damn ...I know that feeling too well . At least you are learning heaps as you go.
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What are the studs supposed to be have torqued to that 45 was too much? |
They warn you when installing the studs that an iron can crack with the higher torque numbers. That really sucks.
I run 30 ft/lbs on the stock bolts then give everyone of them an extra 1-2 ft/lbs to convince myself my motor is stronger.... If you want a free front plate with 100k miles on it let me know and I will send it to your for shipping costs only. It just sits in the corner collecting dust. Never been modified... I can send pics if you like. |
Originally Posted by strokercharged95gt
(Post 4879397)
They warn you when installing the studs that an iron can crack with the higher torque numbers. That really sucks.
I run 30 ft/lbs on the stock bolts then give everyone of them an extra 1-2 ft/lbs to convince myself my motor is stronger.... If you want a free front plate with 100k miles on it let me know and I will send it to your for shipping costs only. It just sits in the corner collecting dust. Never been modified... I can send pics if you like. |
Originally Posted by Brettus
(Post 4879335)
Damn ...I know that feeling too well . At least you are learning heaps as you go.
I guess I'm a cat guy...:hahano: She's definitely making me work for it... Jack: Greg, how come you don't like cats? Greg: I don't not like cats. I-I just-- I just prefer dogs. I mean, I'm just more of a dog kind of, you know--Come home, wagging their little tails, happy to see you kind of-- Jack: You need that assurance? You prefer an emotionally shallow animal? Greg: I-- Jack: You see, Greg, when you yell at a dog, his tail will go between his legs and cover his genitals, his ears will go down. A dog is very easy to break, but cats make you work for their affection. They don't sell out the way dogs do. - Meet the Parents J'king...I'm actually a dog guy. We love our vizsla, Koda. https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...e6a0321e8.jpeg |
Let me know if you need it. I took it apart at 100k miles. Kinda shocking how small the exhaust port gets with carbon build up. Motor was not blown and had good compression when I removed it. Definitely could be cleaned up, but I would not have a problem using it in one of my builds (which isn't saying much). The black marks are just the old o-rings sticking to the top of the plate. I will never need it since I have no intention of building a MSP.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...d3ac3ba04f.jpg https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...2ad6b4ef94.jpg https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...08b8db6ee7.jpg |
Originally Posted by strokercharged95gt
(Post 4879408)
Let me know if you need it. I took it apart at 100k miles. Kinda shocking how small the exhaust port gets with carbon build up. Motor was not blown and had good compression when I removed it. Definitely could be cleaned up, but I would not have a problem using it in one of my builds (which isn't saying much). The black marks are just the old o-rings sticking to the top of the plate. I will never need it since I have no intention of building a MSP.
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Originally Posted by jcbrx8
(Post 4879328)
Progress Update: ... I suspect a cracked front iron... So, the engines coming out again, to inspect, validate & correct the problem. ... Vid of the culprit: I've a hole in a freeze plug. Reviewed some rebuild pics...and sure enough there it is. https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...0e88e2fc3f.jpg Freeze plug hole |
Never seen that before... So weird. Have you pulled the front cover and check the front iron yet?
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Originally Posted by strokercharged95gt
(Post 4879740)
Never seen that before... So weird. Have you pulled the front cover and check the front iron yet?
No, I haven't pulled the front cover. Did the water test...which revealed the leak at the freeze plug. My thought is to repair the plug, water test the system again for any additional leaks, and proceed from there. |
That's just really bad luck . Glad it's something very simple to fix !
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Kind of ironic that a freeze plug is supposed to save your engine and yours may have killed it or contributed to killing it the first go round..
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Any idea what caused the hole in the freeze plug? Corrrosion? |
Originally Posted by TomD_Cincy
(Post 4879780)
Any idea what caused the hole in the freeze plug? Corrrosion? Mine is a reman'd engine...w/likely >100k mi., i.e. prev. life unknown (care & miles)??? + 65k mi. I've put on it; so expect some refreshing w/b required. |
Progress update:
- Pulled the flywheel & popped the freeze plug today. Looked, but couldn't find a replacement in town. So, an Atkins order it is. - Deductively checked for cracks at the front iron: slightly loosened and re-torqued the studs to ensure each "held" 42 ft# torque, and they all did. (Reduced torque a few ft#s) - Took advantage of the engine being out and re-wrapped a section of my exhaust manifold. https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...b4c9403d39.jpg It's got a hole in it... :suspect: :yelrotflm https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...d7eca91018.jpg Re-wrapped exhaust mani... . |
Oil filter reloc mount leak ideas??? I was experiencing some minor oil leaking from the oil filter reloc head mount (77.2 mm O.D.) and the main oil filter pedestal mount (70.1mm O.D.) where it mates. It causes only the first o-ring of the reloc mount to seal against the pedestal, Seals sometimes...sometimes it doesn't. Don’t want to re-create the wheel here... Have others encountered this? What has worked to resolve it? :dunno: My thought is to fabricate and sandwich a “flange” using the pedestal I.D. and the reloc mount O.D. between the two. Install a gasket between the pedestal & flange bottom. Then both reloc mount o-rings will seal against the top of the flange. Thoughts? https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...79c84f3000.jpg Oil filter pedestal mount: 70.1mm O.D. Reloc head mount: 77.2 mm O.D. . . |
my seal deteriorated so I just went to local 'o' ring shop and got one for the inner ring only ... seals just fine .
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Originally Posted by Brettus
(Post 4879897)
my seal deteriorated so I just went to local 'o' ring shop and got one for the inner ring only ... seals just fine .
I think my "flange" idea has merit, if I can find or make a good gasket to install between the mount and flange. edit: On a quick search... some adhesive backed cork or similar gasket making material should do fine. |
Originally Posted by strokercharged95gt
(Post 4879751)
Kind of ironic that a freeze plug is supposed to save your engine and yours may have killed it or contributed to killing it the first go round..
You're right... though I prefer to avoid that word "killed" concerning our engines. :yelrotflm But I went back and reviewed some pics after initial disassembly, and found the freeze plug had evidently been leaking for quite a while. Didn't give it much thought at the time. Even after cleaning considerable gunk... a "trail" from the offending frz-plug can still be seen. Evidently, a thorough cleaning of the components prior to reassembly removed enough rust & gunk to cause the full on leak when the engine was reassembled and started. Note: It did not show visible signs of leaking until started. Clever girl: https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...eaf1a749e8.jpg Back of rear iron after initial disassembly and some cleaning... . |
Originally Posted by jcbrx8
(Post 4879902)
Understood. Mine seals...sometimes. So, I'm hoping to ensure a more consistent seal b/c as you know if it leaks...the UIM needs to come off to reach it. I think my "flange" idea has merit, if I can find or make a good gasket to install between the mount and flange. edit: On a quick search... some adhesive backed cork or similar gasket making material should do fine. Better to just buy a new o ring for the inner groove that has good crush ... it will seal. |
Originally Posted by Brettus
(Post 4879984)
That "flange " idea might not work ..... especially if cork is exposed to oil flow (and it will be they way you described it) . After a while the cork will break up and end up in your oil.
Better to just buy a new o ring for the inner groove that has good crush ... it will seal. So, I want the insurance of both o-rings sealing, if possible. The gasket will not be in the oil flow. It w/b completely sandwiched between the flange bottom and pedestal mounting surface. But as a precaution I'll avoid cork and try a rubber based gasket material. Something like this... |
Originally Posted by jcbrx8
(Post 4879989)
I know it can seal w/ just the inner o-ring. My did...then it didn't...and as we know...lol...it wasn't on that long.
So, I want the insurance of both o-rings sealing, if possible. The gasket will not be in the oil flow. It w/b completely sandwiched between the flange bottom and pedestal mounting surface. But as a precaution I'll avoid cork and try a rubber based gasket material. Something like this... |
Originally Posted by Brettus
(Post 4879991)
What will hold it concentric ?
I envision something like this: https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...56bc43b650.png Flange idea to create surface area to allow both oil reloc head unit o-rings to seal. |
The point of having two o rings wasn't to double the chance of a seal ...... it was so that the unit would work on multiple vehicles .If it isn't sealing properly now it's more likely to do with the cheap o rings they used than the design. What you propose to do just introduces more chances of failure via the rubber gasket which will probably spew out one side and leak ..........one day... IMO .
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Originally Posted by Brettus
(Post 4880007)
...If it isn't sealing properly now it's more likely to do with the cheap o rings they used than the design. What you propose to do just introduces more chances of failure via the rubber gasket which will probably spew out one side and leak ..........one day... IMO .
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Originally Posted by Brettus
(Post 4880007)
The point of having two o rings wasn't to double the chance of a seal ...... it was so that the unit would work on multiple vehicles .If it isn't sealing properly now it's more likely to do with the cheap o rings they used than the design. What you propose to do just introduces more chances of failure via the rubber gasket which will probably spew out one side and leak ..........one day... IMO .
Originally Posted by TomD_Cincy
(Post 4880014)
I have to agree with Bret on this. The likelihood of a gasket holding up to 60-70 psi with only the squeeze from the relocation head clamping it in place isn’t very good. I’d get some good quality viton o-rings to replace what came with the adapter head. If you’re set on the flange concept, I’d machine a pocket in it to trap the gasket in place.
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What about using this instead of fabbing your own flange. I didnt relocate my filter but I'm using this adapter for my turbo feed oil. If I recall correctly (and forgive me if i'm wrong as it's been 8 years since I installed it) but I believe this has a larger OD than the stock oil filter mount. I'm pretty sure when I replace my oil filter the Greddy adapter is a larger OD than my filter is. May have to do some research on what it's actual OD is but it could be an option to mount your relocate kit to if it's big enough without any fab required.
When I get home tonight I could have a look at mine closer for you if you think it would work. https://www.rallysportdirect.com/par...-block-adapter |
Originally Posted by RotaryMachineRx
(Post 4880041)
What about using this instead of fabbing your own flange. I didnt relocate my filter but I'm using this adapter for my turbo feed oil....
https://www.rallysportdirect.com/par...-block-adapter So do you have an inline filter after the sandwich plate on your turbo feed? |
Given sufficient vertical space...using the sandwich adapter just may work out. Confirmed ...it's OD is perfect...and, of course, it already has a gasket to seal to the pedestal.
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Originally Posted by jcbrx8
(Post 4880054)
RMRx - Thanks. Good thought ...I'll investigate using an oil sandwich adapter to meet my objective as well. I actually have one...purchased it...then decided to relocate the oil filter so I could tap the clean oil return.
So do you have an inline filter after the sandwich plate on your turbo feed? No, against all good advice I never did install an inline filter. My theory is that I change the oil every 5000kms and have to add 1qt of fresh oil between every oil change, so my oil never has the opportunity to get too "dirty". I'm not saying you need to change where you are feeding your oil (obviously cleaner is better), it will work just fine the way you have it but if you already have the sandwich adaptor then may as well use it rather than fab an entirely new flange. I was thinking you could mount your relocation kit to the adaptor and just leave all the ports on the adaptor plugged. Like you said, if there is enough room to fit it all behind that damn UIM! |
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