nelsonrx8

yea nitrous thread dead .... trade in i guess

dmorales

nelsonrx8,

How much did it cost for the whole kit? (Everything you needed for the ZEX kit)
________
Buy a new condo in Pattaya

Phish806

iTrader: (4)

I am sellin one right now. Check out the sig.

Kane

iTrader: (1)

If the thread is dead restart it.....I know if you wait for Ray you will get a reliable set-up - but what is to stop you from doing it yourself.

Start here - http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

And go from there!

Get a flowmeter in the intake and figure out the air VELOCITY - and how much wet charge that velocity will support... and have at it!!!!

Point is go out and play around - have some fun and see if you can crack the 100 HP nut..... they call us hobbists for a reason.

Flashwing

Um, I don't think that device will work.

First, from the looks of it, it requires an actual MSD ignition system which doesn't work on the RX8 and secondly it looks like it would be active at all times. If that's the case you can simply create an accessport tune with altereed ignition timing. The goal would be to have a device which is ONLY active when the nitrous system is active. It's also listed as not being compatable with "multiple coil ignitions" which would make it unable to work with the RX8.

Kane

iTrader: (1)

I know - it was just the first one I found.... there are others.

But that one has a nitrous switch which would activate the retard function - but it is only for MSD ignition.

My point was for the folks who wanna be the firstest with the mostest - to get out there and find the solutions they seek - then experiment with them.... it is more fun that way.

Flashwing

I understand, but you've been around here long enough that people will take suggestions you make to heart. I don't want anyone buying that thing thinking that it's going to bolt up and work.

We're exploring options for a module that works similar to the MSD unit but would be compatable with the RX8. The research is ongoing but I encourage people to seek out other solutions.

Kane

iTrader: (1)

Touche....

You are right... I was just in a hurry and trying to make my point.

Rote8

What about the MSD "DIS 4"?


Though I have heard there are some reliability issues, but MSD does replace those when they fail.


Another thought:
The knock sensor we already have; is there a way to use it's circuit to drop timing?
For example, the knock sensor circuit comes on right when the nitrous hits.
(My dual resonated mid pipe vibration against the frame cross brace seems to retard my timing, by faking out the knock circuit.....)

Flashwing

My gut reaction would be to say no. As you clearly stated, you're able to simulate a knock condition with your midpipe.

My experience has been terrible with the knock sensor. It goes off when there isn't knock and it doesn't go off when there is.

I don't think the nitrous makes any noise which the sensor would detect. If it did, I guess it could be programmed to pull timing but with the crappy nature of that sensor it's quite a risky setup IMO.

LURCH634

iTrader: (1)

What type of nos kit would you reccommend for my 8? I have an at with 104k miles. Only engine upgrade is k&n typhoon intake. Advice please

Phish806

iTrader: (4)

The exact same one i have forsale on this board (see link in sig) :-) <----- thats my one shameless sales plug

Kane

iTrader: (1)

Ray converted me... for the money - Bobby's car is pretty wicked fast.

toneskii707

Make sure you get the BHR TB spacer and BHR stealth nozzle! And buy the zex kit from charles too!

RufusVonStorm

Will the 55 shot take a healthy vehicle to about 230whp with a cat delete?

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

Professor Nitrous (aka Charles R. Hill)
was in the 230 range last time I had his car on the dyno. (55 shot)

Kane

iTrader: (1)

Or more.

godchsr

OK.... Unless I missed something along the way, Why hasn't anyone even mentioned a progressive controller?

If you're giving your motor a 55 shot at 3k (rpm) then at 6k it handle a 110 and at 9K it can handle 165.

The reason is that at 3k your engine is pulling in 'X' amount of air and at 6k you engine is pulling 'X*2' (double the air).... it's "progressive".

As it sits now all your power is being made the instant you hit the nitrous and later in the rpm band the nitrous is being 'washed out' by the increased fuel and air rendering it less effective.

So unless I missed something scanning through this you're not yet using a prgressive controller and you should be!

Hoss

Maybe I am not properly educated on Nitrous, but I thought the point of it was that the NO2 would be broken apart inside the motor, feeding extra O2 for better combustion and more efficient combustion of the fuel, sort of like a bottled version of FI.

Unless I am wrong about the way nitrous works, this "progressive" controller just seems to be kind of like overstuffing the motor at higher RPM's. The engine can only make use of so much oxygen for combustion, regaurdless of the RPM.

I could be wrong though.

godchsr

Your science is correct but the Math is wrong.

Let's make up numbers for a second... All hypothetical not accurate:
At 3k the engine is pulling 10 cfm of o2 and 1cfm of Fuel; You inject 1cfm of N20 and you're total is 10+1+1=12

If you are NOT using a progressive controller then:
At 6k the engine is pulling 20 cfm of O2 and 2cfm of Fuel; The same 1cfm of N20 and that's a total of 20+2+1=23

BUT we know that every 3k the engine can handle 12cfm. So at 6k the engine could handle an extra cfm of N20... That's double.


My point is that if your motor can handle 50 shot at 3k (I have no idea what the standard is on a rotary) then it can certainly handle 150 shot at 9k.

The progressive controller can work many ways but the best type is an RPM map based controller. It measures the engines revolutions and opens up more N20 as needed to maintain the level of power desired.

This is N20 101 really... is there somethign 'special' about the rotary that makes this fact (not theory) incompatible?

Hoss

I still have a bit of a hard time following this. Without FI, the engine is not drawing in any additional air at higher RPM's... An engine consumes its entire displacement capability every 2 revolutions, for our motor this means that the motor uses 1300 CC of air every 2 revolutions (of the rotors, not the e-shaft). This is regaurdless of the engine speed.

FI and nitrous are the exceptions to this, since they are literally forcing more O2 into the engine, sort of overstuffing the cylinders so that more fuel can be burned.

But like Charles said, I would be interested to see the results when you try it...

godchsr

I say it in love man but wrong, wrong, wrong

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...kit/index.html


This was the first site I pulled off of Google. No wonder the RX8 scene isn't getting any love in the tuning world. Misinformation within a community will hault any progress immediately.

godchsr

Come on now... you're even a vendor.

godchsr

And before I forget to respond to this as well let me add...
A TURBO will continue to 'stuff' an engine as the rpms increase but you are not right about the Nitrous. It is a set amount released.

A 55 shot at 3k is still 55 at 6k but half as effective as it was at 3k.

BUT 9spi at 3k is 9psi at 6k and equally effective because it is 'growing'... or 'progressing' with the rpms of the motor.

The Nitrous is NOT growing or progessing with the rpms unless you install a multi stage kit or a 'progressive controller'

Hoss

I see nothing on that website about the amount of air being taken into the engine, as they state, the dual stage kit was used to "stack" smaller shots for two resons: 1) traction, 2) Internal engine pressure. They are using the first stage at lower RPM's to keep from blowing the heads off of the motor, and then the second shot comes in at a higher RPM when the engine can more easily expell the increased post combustion pressure since it has less time to stay in the motor. They never even speak about the air usage in conjunction with the RPM.
I think you are confusing a turbo with a supercharger. A supercharger will increase the amount of usable boost in direct proportion with engine RPM, while a turbo operates independently of the RPM. The exhaust driven turbocharger will create more boost as the RPM increases, you have that correct, but the amount of boost has more to do with the engineering of the turbo itself. Regaurdless though, the amount of boost that is usable is not dictated by the supercharger, turbocharger, or the nitrous itself, but rather the engine that it is feeding.

Another point to consider though, is this: Without any type of forced induction, the engine is being fed air via a vaccuum draw generated by the engine itself. If you have a motor with a cylinder capacity (yes, I know I am using a piston motor for this example, but same applies with a rotary...) of 50cc, it is impossible for it to ever draw any amount of air greater than 50cc into the cylinder, and likewise, it is highly unlikely that the vaccum will draw less than 50cc of air into the cylinder, this would create a vaccuum in the cylinder that would induce a parasitic loss to the overall system. This is accomplished regaurdless of engine speed, and would remain constant without literally forcing air into the combustion area of the motor.