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Thanks
I liked that it can handle higher egts than any other turbo too (1050C). I suspect turbine temps are going to be very high with it right on the engine the way I have it.
As far as nobody in rotary world trying G series turbos yet goes ..... I think that's because the EFRs work so well on the pp exhaust engines that there is really no need to even look at them. With the RX8 however , due to the physical size of the EFRs (meaning top mount is only option) plus the inability to effectively utilise a twin scroll, we haven't seen anything that great from them yet.
The G30-660 seems to me like it is what the Rx8/Renesis needs to make a truely decent setup. Small enough to mount down low , fast spooling and able to flow just enough to max out the Renesis in it's sweet spot.
definitely for running comfortably in the 400 whp or higher range, but the G25-660 being smaller still with enough flow capacity for lower hp goals is looking very viable to me too
Another thing I saw wrt the turbine housing type; the current Garret website listing is only showing the v-band housing type, but there are images on the web of the same webpage listing that previously had T3 and T4 housings listed on there with part #s. Not sure if there’s an availability issue now and they took them off for that or some other reason?
Unfortunately the divided T4 0.92 on the G25 is only available as a IWG type. So I’m probably going to look at getting something similar to this, except as a weld-on configuration (without the bolt-on flange).
Nice.
Well if you go with that turbo I'm sure the result will be better than the 7163 you were going to use. Better on both turbine and compressor sides for a Renesis ... even more so if you end up using the APVs .
Nice.
Well if you go with that turbo I'm sure the result will be better than the 7163 you were going to use. Better on both turbine and compressor sides for a Renesis ... even more so if you end up using the APVs .
some, you never had the full story on the turbine though because I was holding that back
not as small as you think, but yes it’d still be less flow than the G25 if the Garrett turbine map correlates correctly per the previous comments
but I bought that back in 2017, hard to predict the future, hate to give up the integral BOV though
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Are you saying the numbers on matchbot for that turbine are wrong ?
No, I’m saying that other than myself and one other person who knew about me placing the order that the rest of the world likely had never thought of, or considered, the turbine housing that was intended to be used on the EFR7163; divided-T4 1.05 A/R EWG
Remember, I told you the manifold design had changed.
a straight line across the compressor map is so old skool too ...
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No, I’m saying that other than myself and one other person who knew about me placing the order that the rest of the world likely had never thought of, or considered, the turbine housing that was intended to be used on the EFR7163; divided-T4 1.05 A/R EWG
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Ah ok ...the biggest they show for the 7163 is a 0.85 .... were you able to get a special made ?
definitely for running comfortably in the 400 whp or higher range, but the G25-660 being smaller
Just picking up on this ..... did you realise the G30-660 is the same physical size as the G25-660 ? They use the same compressor housings. It's not till the 770 that the comp housing gets a lot bigger.
Ah ok ...the biggest they show for the 7163 is a 0.85 .... were you able to get a special made ?
No, I just recognized that the EFR7064 has the same size exducer and only 1mm larger inducer (0.5mm radius) turbine wheel. Also that a simple machined adapter plate would allow the B2 frame turbine housing to fit on the B1 frame. At first I thought it would need two sets of hold-down tabs; one set from the adapter plate to the B1 CHRA and then another set from the B2 turbine housing to the adapter plate. Once I got into it, I realized that all that was needed was to make longer/wider/thicker/stiffer tabs and go straight from the B2 housing to the B1 CHRA. Because the adaptor plate mounts to the turbo just like a turbine housing and the larger turbine housing mounts to the adapter plate the same way. So one set of strong hold-down tabs should hold it all together. Or I could have also chanced welding the adapter plate to the B2 turbine housing.
However, buying the housing turned out to be more of a challenge than expected. Not in stock and apparently not a popular offering, but they said 12-14 days. It started looking like they actually meant weeks rather than days when the excuses started. Only two guys in the shipping dept, but we just need to get it processed. Then it was shipping soon. Then several weeks of “it will ship on Friday”. So last week they said Friday again, but here that was the Thanksgiving holiday week. Which I well knew it wouldn’t ship again because most manufacturers are closed for the Thur - Sun holiday weekend. Having already recognized this option made more sense and being a bit miffed that they were so obviously pulling the Friday excuse again, I asked Turbosource to cancel the order. Of course BW came back with another “next Friday” excuse before they got the call in. So I’ll just take the hit and sell it.
Have to say my BW experience overall was disappointing. They can’t even supply dimensions of the compressor and turbine housing diameter/width. like it’s no big deal if it won’t fit. Which the 7163 compressor width is the same size as these. My goal is different than yours though. Supposedly the G25 turbine wheel is the same or slightly better rotational mass than the 7163 turbine. Despite being heavier material, it’s smaller diameter offsets that. Better high temp material though, so bonus! I’m looking for response more than top end power and the G25 0.92 housing flows like the previous GT30 1.01. A better fit for my purpose.
nice, V-band is definitely the way to go if you have that option
not too much different than an EFR 7163 compressor map within the applicable range .
Originally Posted by Brettus
Same maximum flow ...but way more efficient In the PR ranges It'll be operating in. The 7163 map suits higher boost (smaller engine).
EFR7163 BLUE & G25/G30-660 RED
the advantage is to the 0.92 A/R housing on the Garrett G25, which maxes out at 24 lbs/min. That’s fairly close to max limit on the 1.05 A/R housing for the EFR7670.
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Not sure of what you are saying about the comp. map . To me that overlay demonstrates exactly what I said. The EFR 7163 is around 8% less efficient in the PR ranges a 6port will operate. Would be pretty good on a 4 port though ................
We were talking about it, and here’s a direct map overlay comparison I found that demonstrates it
It’s a fairly close match. Clearly the efficiency is better, but the higher boost range is approx the same; slight advantage to each in different flow areas of the map
The Garrett is the better turbo for sure with a much better turbine housing flow range. That’s how I see it anyway and pretty much all I’ve had to say about it from the beginning.
Agreed , the Garrett certainly has the edge. But if you can fit a 1.05 on the 7163 it should still make plenty and likely will spool better than the Garrett. You still going that way ?
I would consider blocking off the aux. ports to keep it on the efficiency island and just running higher boost.
nope, after close analysis what I came to realize about the BW impeller/turbine housing is that it doesn’t flow as well as the new Garrett G-series despite the size difference. Because that 1.05 7064 turbine housing that i was planning to use is less flow than the 0.92 G25-660. It flows between the 0.92 IWG and 1.05 EWG housing for the 7670 despite having a much smaller turbine. In fact, because it's so small (54mm inducer/49mm exducer) the MOI is equal or better than the 7163’s 63mm inducer/56mm exducer turbine despite the heavier, high temp material.
I’m just about to order a G25-660 0.92 IWG. Which again, that turbine will flow better than the EFR7670 0.92 IWG most commonly used over on RX7Club. With the better compressor efficiency and full E85 it should be able to hit over 400 whp fairly easily. It might even get close to your target, but at a slightly lower rpm. It’s essentially 7670 capability in a 7163 package on a 2-rotor engine.
Just for additional reference on the turbine flow difference, the 1.01 housing you have would be equivalent to the BW S200 SX-E with 1.22, which is essentially a 7670. With the G-series you can’t compare the A/R or turbine size values directly to other turbos. It’s setting a whole new standard on high turbine flow capability. I didn’t even believe it was true at first.
So again, thanks for getting me looking and studying the situation over.
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the 0.83 T3 housing for the G30 is the same flow, pretty sure you can buy it separately
tbh, I was wavering a bit from using the G25-660 0.92 or just going with a G30-770 with the 0.83 housing to keep it in the high efficiency zone.
However, I should have stated that the BW flow comparison comments are based on what the BW Matchbot program indicates on the output sheet. I assume they’re correctly indicated, but it is an assumption.
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Seems like your goals are changing by the day You know you want a fast spooling 400plus ...lol
The T3 0.92 would better suit my setup both from a fitment and flow/spool point of view. Also : Something Garrett doesn't tll you is how freakin' heavy those 1.01 turbine housings are !
that link was specifically for the G25 oer my reference to it, then deleted to try and avoid that confusion
edit, if you were referring to the old link from several weeks ago, that’s not what I was referring to. Had a link for a G25-660 0.93 A/R T3 in the previous reply, but edited it out.
12-01-2020, 11:49 AM
