Flashwing

It's interesting how much people want to hold onto the older tuning devices simply because they can tweak the tune themselves.

No, there hasn't been a single blown motor on the AP and only a couple people who have reported slight detonation but those issues were quickly resolved. The primary reasoning for it's success has been because people are either using tunes generated by MazdaManiac or the basic COBB tune which is too generic to cause any problems.

I'm sure we'll see a few nuked motors once the street tuner software becomes avaliable. I'd say unless you can afford to blow your motor it's best left to those who have already made their mistakes.

In my opinion, porting on the RENESIS doesn't yield (for me) the kind of power that would warrant the possible loss of reliability. Besides, the engine is limited because of the small exhaust ports. Porting the motor won't change the fact that you still have a small port to flow those gasses through.

I think Nitrous is a great alternative for people who want a little extra power but don't need it all the time. I'm looking into a nitrous kit for the fun factor plus it's a nice show piece. For $1,500 a kit, it would take many fillups before I'd equal the cost of a turbo. It won't give me 300 WHP, but 270ish is very possible.

To each his own. Best of luck!

whoneedspistons

iTrader: (2)

Its interesting that the highest horsepower rx8's aren't running the ap... but I am sure that is just coincidence...


Now that is out of the way... the fact of the matter is what is being said as fact is really just opinion. Everyone had great success with the Int-x. Then the new toy came out and everyone hopped on the AP band wagon. The ap has been out for a little while and to me is still earnings its stripes. Whether or not it's better is up to the user. If I were you guys I would let the facts come out and not try to talk a product up like its the end all and be all.

mysql

that's not true. There are just as many published dynos of rx-8's running 380 whp with the ap as without. Also there are a few race teams running the AP.

Even if it were true though - I'd like for you to explain to me what makes a non ap unit do better with regards to timing and fuel that the ap cannot do. Or maybe there's some other magic ingredient to it? Tell me more.

Anything that cannot idle properly, or adjust with temp change is a gimped system no matter how you look at it.

whoneedspistons

iTrader: (2)

I have never had an idle issue. Infact the stock pcm gave me more issues during idle then the Int-x has. I am not trying to argue with you Jason it just gets a little old seeing people constantly bashing stuff that has consistantly worked for the past few years and has been working on some of the most powerfull cars on the boards (using the rene).


The fact is its about tuning... If you don't tune any system correctly you will get detonation plain and simple. I don't want this getting into a ap vs everything else battle.

8 Maniac

iTrader: (1)

when the stock pcm was giving you trouble, was it an aftermarket tune or one from mazda? once you switched to Int-x did anything else change or was everything, including the tune settings, the exact same? I'm not discrediting either one (at least not in this paragraph), but there's honestly no way you can link the change in performance in that situation to the change in management systems.

The AP has at least reached a point where it's performance can be backed with data, so at the very least I'd say they are on close to equal grounds, with the AP being the cheaper alternative. So unless there's something I'm not noticing that makes the other options a much better choice, or a better choice at all, then why not get the AP?

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

installing a Greddy turbo was problem #1.

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

In my opinion...the Flash tuning systems haven't proven themselves over about 320HP. The MAF starts run out of room at 340-350....and until all this is addressed with larger MAF tubes and scaling the higher HP systems will likely run the MAP based ECU's

I think the MAF based flash stuff for a NA car is the best option by far..and for 320 WHP and less FI it should be better as well.....

We will see when the Hymee system and the Flash tuner for the AP comes out what will shake dowm in the tuning department

swoope

iTrader: (5)

the math does not add up.. you are where? who did the tune? what injectors are you running..

pics of the dyno or you are just going to be writing blah blah.

beers

Fanman

Yep , true that.

tdiddy

+1

But I am running both the AP and the Interceptor so I got the best of both worlds.

Gturbo8

swoop....Its possible i did it i have sheets packed up with a bunch of stuff im moving so meh dont really care to prove it to some internet no body trashtalker....

Thanks to the rest of you. Cars staying turbo although going gt3076 r on a custom manifold with external dump with big injectors, pump, intercepor x, and mazsport coils may be a bit cause im moving and the car isn't my daily anymore

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

The MAF will read out to +360 g/sec.
That's 47 pounds of air, which translates to well over 440 HP at the crank.

OfficerFarva

I have been driving my STI with the AP installed and tuned for over a year and it's awesome. So easy, so safe, and so reliable. Since I've been out of the 8 for over 2.5 years now, I cannot speak on behalf of the AP on the 8, but had this product been out when I had the greddy turbo on the 8, I definitely would have used it. I know comparing these cars are like apples to oranges more or less, but there are very high hp Subies that are tuned with the AP. Lots of people well into the 400whp and 500whp range that tune with it. Cobb does their hw before releasing a product for sure.
And by the way, MM, that avatar makes me laugh...after I almost puke when I think about the other thing!

mysql

damn it, stop destroying all the urban legends! I heard flash is bad for cars. Something about adobe sometimes crashing or slowing things down. I don't want my car slower! Damn flash.

Red Devil

Not sure, having no experience with the AP, but have spoken to several STi drivers that are complete Cobb ****** and still went MAP once they got in range of 400whp or more. One rationales was:

I'm running a turbo xs utec ems where it is completely map based at anything greater than 25% throttle (user define tps crossover), and maf based below 25% to keep the more streetable. The utec is a bit more advanced than the accessport, and allows for more extreme tuning for some of the heavier modded cars. The accessport is great but you'll discover it has its limits because of the maf.

mysql

You're describing the emanage ultimate.

Red Devil

That's the STi owner's description, not mine. I think comparing the AP to the Ultimate is misleading.

The apples to apples here is MAF vs. MAP at higher volumes. Clearly, this is one example where a STi owner - and I know first hand this guy can do his own tuning, etc...so he is car literate - has a preference for MAP instead of MAF when his power levels surpassed a certain threshold.

For our purposes, this relates to AP or INT-X and which is going to be better for us past say this 350whp mark that Dannobre has mentioned. I've yet to see anywhere near a 350whp dyno with the AP, but we have seen that and more with the MAP based systems.

mysql

I wasn't comparing anything to the AP. You were talking about MAF/MAP system. That's what the ultimate does. MAF till the pressure map is activated, then it becomes MAP.

Red Devil

You're taking this guy's comments in italics in the wrong direction.

The transition from MAF to MAP has zero bearing on what option - MAF or MAP - will be the preferable option, or for that matter the viable option, once air volumes exceed X level on the RX-8.

mysql

I'm not taking anything in any direction. I made a simple comment on the description of a fuel management system.

Just because you haven't seen a 350 whp dyno with a MAF system doesn't mean it can't happen. We didn't even have a RX-8 renesis dyno above 330 whp till 2008. The AP was only released a few months ago. That means you're giving the int-x a 3 year head start on the AP and complaining that the AP has not yet shown 350.

OfficerFarva

I can pull up countless threads of high hp cars on iwsti running the AP. When the MAF has it's limits, and one still cannot afford the Hydra standalone, there is a simple fix. A BIG MAF INTAKE! Cobb offers a big maf for the legacy gt that's 70mm, and then cars start hitting the wall around 380-400whp on the stock maf, they throw that bad boy on and problem solved. APS makes a big maf intake as well, and it's a cold air. I'm just saying for the money, ease of use, and reliability, there is no other comparrison. Utec has had problems frying some STI computers. Here are just a few from about 10 seconds of looking around.
All I'm saying is that if other cars can do it on an AP, still pass emissions because there are no CELs, and be as hastle free as stock, why not? Notice just about all these intakes are big mafs. Sounds like a great solution for the Rx8 too!
http://www.iwsti.com/forums/power-br...hp-430wtq.html

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/power-br...tq-w-tmic.html

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/power-br...hp-393wtq.html

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/power-br...hp-435wtq.html

mysql

yeah, you can always increase the maf housing and rescale the maps. Jeff does this for the various setups we use. e.g; GReddy maf housing isn't the same diameter as OEM.

You can also replace the maf sensor itself.

maxxdamigz

iTrader: (1)

Personally, I'm running an Int-X (bought my turbo kit before the AP was released) but I've been thinking about the AP much like I used to think about Pam Anderson when I was in HS (oh, what I could do with a PA or AP). There are some questions I have about it though and I don't particularly need to swap management at the moment.
1. What fraction of a second does it take air to travel from my MAF to my TB that creates a delay in readings (MAF v. MAP) and how does that compare to the delay I have right now with the routing of the manifold pressure to the Int-X. With a vented to atmosphere BOV, is there a rich condition caused by venting metered air?
2. Assuming the AP is simply a flash of the stock ECU system, would it also inherent the limitations of the stock ECU? The stock ecu is designed to run a renesis engine so it is probably the best equipped to do so. However, it is not equipped with any auxilary controls/inputs that can be customized.
3. There is no tuning software available to the common purchaser today and that's a significant draw back. The stock ECU has a glut of maps and functions so how hard is it to work with? An Int-X is course and simple, but it's fairly easy to adjust.

I might eventually switch to an AP or just run both. I'd like to clear my christmas tree of dashboard lights.

kersh4w

iTrader: (3)

i'd just like to point out that the highest whp rx8 was dynoed at 226whp. and that rx8 had a lot of money spent on it. custom headers and exhausts as well. the next highest whp rx8 is in the 205 range.

you're not going to see 250whp n/a. unless your name is teamrx8 you wont see 220whp n/a either.

tdiddy

I am running both the AP and the Interceptor. I use the AccessPort to increase my oil injection, to turn off CELs, and to increase my idle speed. I use my interceptor to control everything else. I don't have any CELs and my car is running great.