best turbo kits
08-15-2008, 09:15 AM
#77
I kill Vtec's
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08-15-2008, 07:12 PM
#81
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I say the best is not a "kit". Buy the stuff you need, and dont pay for the BS that you dont. I have less than half what these kits cost in mine, including stand alone and fuel system. Mine is good for 700hp if the engine can keep up, and people with the kits are getting excited when they see 300hp.
08-15-2008, 07:14 PM
#82
I say the best is not a "kit". Buy the stuff you need, and dont pay for the BS that you dont. I have less than half what these kits cost in mine, including stand alone and fuel system. Mine is good for 700hp if the engine can keep up, and people with the kits are getting excited when they see 300hp.
08-15-2008, 09:38 PM
#83
How much was that twin, high-flow fuel pump, the return fuel rails and all the 3/8" steel braid fuel line?
Aren't you worried about the idle with those 1000cc primaries?
Who made your 4.5" MAF tube?
The GT4088r is pretty awesome. Who made your manifold and downpipe?
Must have been a huge pain to route the 2" primaries all the way to the top of the engine bay and still have room for that 4" downpipe.
What did you end up doing for the front bumper? I had done some test fab, but I never figured out how to get that 32"x16"x4" intercooler out there and get the 3.5" mandrel bends to it from the discharge and to the TB. I guess your system has a V-mount.
I can't wait to hear about the tuning. It'll be awesome.
Of course, the engine you are having built for this is probably pretty killer, so it'll be cool to see the pics of the porting, custom intake manifold, etc.
08-15-2008, 10:20 PM
#85
I say the best is not a "kit". Buy the stuff you need, and dont pay for the BS that you dont. I have less than half what these kits cost in mine, including stand alone and fuel system. Mine is good for 700hp if the engine can keep up, and people with the kits are getting excited when they see 300hp.
I want 700hp !
08-15-2008, 11:25 PM
#86
Registered User
Wow, that's an awesome system.
How much was that twin, high-flow fuel pump, the return fuel rails and all the 3/8" steel braid fuel line?
Aren't you worried about the idle with those 1000cc primaries?
Who made your 4.5" MAF tube?
The GT4088r is pretty awesome. Who made your manifold and downpipe?
Must have been a huge pain to route the 2" primaries all the way to the top of the engine bay and still have room for that 4" downpipe.
What did you end up doing for the front bumper? I had done some test fab, but I never figured out how to get that 32"x16"x4" intercooler out there and get the 3.5" mandrel bends to it from the discharge and to the TB. I guess your system has a V-mount.
I can't wait to hear about the tuning. It'll be awesome.
Of course, the engine you are having built for this is probably pretty killer, so it'll be cool to see the pics of the porting, custom intake manifold, etc.
How much was that twin, high-flow fuel pump, the return fuel rails and all the 3/8" steel braid fuel line?
Aren't you worried about the idle with those 1000cc primaries?
Who made your 4.5" MAF tube?
The GT4088r is pretty awesome. Who made your manifold and downpipe?
Must have been a huge pain to route the 2" primaries all the way to the top of the engine bay and still have room for that 4" downpipe.
What did you end up doing for the front bumper? I had done some test fab, but I never figured out how to get that 32"x16"x4" intercooler out there and get the 3.5" mandrel bends to it from the discharge and to the TB. I guess your system has a V-mount.
I can't wait to hear about the tuning. It'll be awesome.
Of course, the engine you are having built for this is probably pretty killer, so it'll be cool to see the pics of the porting, custom intake manifold, etc.
The pump was $225. didnt price the lines, but expect around $75 in lines. The regulator is $100 The pump is questionable over 500hp, we have got over 500 in short bursts with it though. (different car)
I am not running 1000cc primaries, but the car idles well.
I dont have a 4.5" MAF tube. Its not needed.
I am running a 3" downpipe, and its fairly open on the right side of the engine so room is not a major issue, a 6" downpipe would be more difficult but 4" would be effortless.
Intercooler fits pretty well, didnt have to butcher anything. I have 3 different ones I have tried for best fit, one fits very well, one fits like ***, and the water to air one blocks too much airflow. It doesnt have 3.5" mandrel bends. The bumper braces are very much in the way though, I am very limited on cold airflow.
I never said I was even wiping dirt off the engine....We are talking about turbo kits. Mine will support 700hp. So far we have got 560 to the wheels with minor porting with same exact setup (21psi +/-?), street driven (same engine, in gen2 rx7).
Go back and read the post one more time now....never said the engine put out 700hp.
I know what it takes to make 700hp bro....I have 650hp n/a street car, and a 800hp 10.5 car, and I also have a 1300hp twin turbo regal sitting in the shop as well. So before you assume I have no idea what I am talking about, you might just wanna ask first.
08-15-2008, 11:38 PM
#87
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I thought Psi didnt really matter but the amount of air in the combustion chamber is what matters. So if you have a low compression engine your turbo can do more "work" and force more air into it allowing more fuel. Isn't this the whole point for going turbo? What you're really doing is giving the motor more air , the engine is only an "air pump" And you're just assisting it with a turbo. With high compression the air fuel charge will get really hot and i think would cause pre ignition. This is just what i think , not even sure if this is correct but thats my understanding of it. I think thats why you need race gas for 400+whp , since higher octane has a higher ignition peak. Imo if you want crazy horsepower and torque then you shouldn't of bought the rx8 , just get a big chevy v8 , with such big displacement you dont even need the turbos lol.
08-15-2008, 11:44 PM
#88
Registered User
3" down pipe
gt4088 w/H cover or S cover preferably
spearco intercooler
tial 44mm wastegate
greddy BOV(had it sitting here, so it was basically a freebie)
Haltech E6X
No need to go on about the engine, since we arent talking about engines.
As long as you can flow the air, you can support major HP. Not sure how much air the renesis can handle, so dont confuse me saying my turbo "kit" will support 700hp with " this exact set up will make 700hp on a renesis engine".
Dunno about marketing it to make millions, there is not much profit in it honestly. Most people want plug and play, with no tuning, and run on 87 octane whenever they feel the need. And, they pay alot more for it.
I'll be excited if you can do even 400 whp on yours, nevermind 700.
Last edited by Outkast187; 08-15-2008 at 11:51 PM.
08-16-2008, 12:03 AM
#90
Registered User
Show me where I said that. Slow down and read...
I will narrow it down...
Since we are talking turbo kits, and not engines, the engine is not really relivant.
Once again.....never said it will make 700hp on a renesis. I said it will support 700hp.
I will narrow it down...
street driven (same engine, in gen2 rx7)
Once again.....never said it will make 700hp on a renesis. I said it will support 700hp.
Last edited by Outkast187; 08-16-2008 at 12:09 AM.
08-16-2008, 12:36 AM
#91
You know, this is an RX-8 forum, right?
Your contributions are probably better applied to the RX-7Club WEB site.
There are plenty of people with "big" turbo units that can "support" very high numbers.
But that is completely irrelevant since flow through the whole system is paramount.
Talk to the Esmeril guys about that.
Your contributions are probably better applied to the RX-7Club WEB site.
There are plenty of people with "big" turbo units that can "support" very high numbers.
But that is completely irrelevant since flow through the whole system is paramount.
Talk to the Esmeril guys about that.
08-16-2008, 12:58 AM
#92
The problem with higher compression motors isn't just that they are "more difficult to tune" (although this is true)
Higher compression ratios raise combustion temperatures and exhaust gas temperature (EGT). The problem you run into when you throw boost in the mix is you can't find a workable solution between air/fuel ratio and ignition.
You need a rich AFR to keep EGT's and engine temperatures down, but that drowns out power. If you lean it out your EGT's skyrocket and the motor overheats. There is only so much you can do before the mixture takes matters into its own hands and ignites itself (detonation).
You can also try retarding ignition to reduce the chance to detonation, but then you decrease power as well.
So now you have to run your engine with pig rich AFRs and retarded ignition to keep its apex seals intact, and throw in some hot, high-pressure compressed air from a turbo. Yeah, it's gets difficult to tune.
But higher compression forced induction motors aren't all bad. A higher compression turbo motor will spool the turbo faster, and will make torque much quicker.
I understand your train of thought, Paul. Pressure is pressure, right? You need to think in terms of tuning and temperatures, however.
Higher compression ratios raise combustion temperatures and exhaust gas temperature (EGT). The problem you run into when you throw boost in the mix is you can't find a workable solution between air/fuel ratio and ignition.
You need a rich AFR to keep EGT's and engine temperatures down, but that drowns out power. If you lean it out your EGT's skyrocket and the motor overheats. There is only so much you can do before the mixture takes matters into its own hands and ignites itself (detonation).
You can also try retarding ignition to reduce the chance to detonation, but then you decrease power as well.
So now you have to run your engine with pig rich AFRs and retarded ignition to keep its apex seals intact, and throw in some hot, high-pressure compressed air from a turbo. Yeah, it's gets difficult to tune.
But higher compression forced induction motors aren't all bad. A higher compression turbo motor will spool the turbo faster, and will make torque much quicker.
I understand your train of thought, Paul. Pressure is pressure, right? You need to think in terms of tuning and temperatures, however.
08-16-2008, 08:56 AM
#93
Registered User
You know, this is an RX-8 forum, right?
Your contributions are probably better applied to the RX-7Club WEB site.
There are plenty of people with "big" turbo units that can "support" very high numbers.
But that is completely irrelevant since flow through the whole system is paramount.
Talk to the Esmeril guys about that.
Your contributions are probably better applied to the RX-7Club WEB site.
There are plenty of people with "big" turbo units that can "support" very high numbers.
But that is completely irrelevant since flow through the whole system is paramount.
Talk to the Esmeril guys about that.
I never said I invented the "big" turbo set up, nor did I say they were rare, or I was the only one with one. I do remember saying the turbo "kit" would support 700hp IF THE ENGINE COULD KEEP UP. The other "kits" available I see drop off waaay before that, not because of the engine, but because the system wont flow enough to support more HP. I have no reason to talk to the esmeril guys, if I do need to I wont hesitate to call em. BTW, you of all people should know that this is all pretty universal info that goes for rotaries in general. Hell, gasoline engines in general for that matter.
Your contributions are probably better off re-thought, then deleted.
Last edited by Outkast187; 08-16-2008 at 08:58 AM.
08-16-2008, 09:13 AM
#94
You do know this is a thread about turbo kits right?
I never said I invented the "big" turbo set up, nor did I say they were rare, or I was the only one with one. I do remember saying the turbo "kit" would support 700hp IF THE ENGINE COULD KEEP UP. The other "kits" available I see drop off waaay before that, not because of the engine, but because the system wont flow enough to support more HP. I have no reason to talk to the esmeril guys, if I do need to I wont hesitate to call em. BTW, you of all people should know that this is all pretty universal info that goes for rotaries in general. Hell, gasoline engines in general for that matter.
Your contributions are probably better off re-thought, then deleted.
I never said I invented the "big" turbo set up, nor did I say they were rare, or I was the only one with one. I do remember saying the turbo "kit" would support 700hp IF THE ENGINE COULD KEEP UP. The other "kits" available I see drop off waaay before that, not because of the engine, but because the system wont flow enough to support more HP. I have no reason to talk to the esmeril guys, if I do need to I wont hesitate to call em. BTW, you of all people should know that this is all pretty universal info that goes for rotaries in general. Hell, gasoline engines in general for that matter.
Your contributions are probably better off re-thought, then deleted.
carry on...
08-16-2008, 09:22 AM
#95
Life begins @ 30 psi
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Outkast... MM is right. He is talking about the car this forum is about, with kits designed for THAT car. It doesn't matter a damn bit if the turbo setup you have can flow enough air for 7000 rwhp if the Renesis for whatever reason (be it high compression or w/e) cannot do anything with it. I know you said "if the engine can keep up" in your post, but your frame of reference is with a different engine and different car. Yes, we all know that Rx7s can generate huge hp numbers due to tons of aftermarket support, long years of availability and a motor designed for stock boost.
Buying a kit is advantageous to most people wanting to go FI with an Rx8 because there isn't as much option on what aftermarket parts are A) available B) trustworthy with the engine. Buying a kit that you know has been fielded by other people with your specific car is a good way to limit the risk of going FI in the first place. It's possible the more knowledgable among the forum could put together pieces more cheaply than a kit... but the rest of us have to wait until they market the damn thing. *poke nudge* BHR/MM. :D
Buying a kit is advantageous to most people wanting to go FI with an Rx8 because there isn't as much option on what aftermarket parts are A) available B) trustworthy with the engine. Buying a kit that you know has been fielded by other people with your specific car is a good way to limit the risk of going FI in the first place. It's possible the more knowledgable among the forum could put together pieces more cheaply than a kit... but the rest of us have to wait until they market the damn thing. *poke nudge* BHR/MM. :D
08-16-2008, 09:47 AM
#96
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higher compression makes a difference cause you cant cool that with an intercooler etc, like you can an intake charge
08-16-2008, 09:55 AM
#97
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yep, i think we are all talking Renesis's here... cept for you. Your case/car only belongs here(in the appropriate forum) in the sense of "check out the swap i did" and any technical aspects of the swap itself.... all the tech that applies to your motor belongs on 7club. Any general theory/ideas you want to discuss though can go in the tech garage...
08-16-2008, 12:26 PM
#98
Registered User
Well, I can see where you are coming from. But, its general advice for any engine ever created.
Lets simplify things a bit. Alot of people are getting confused apparently.
Kits available = low HP potential + higher price/ lower quality
Custom kit = higher HP potential + lower price/higher quality
If you are doing it yourself you can cherry pick the parts, its no secret on the parts they are using in the kits...
I now alot of you guys are not very technical savy and dont realize if something doesnt have a sticker on it saying "fits 04-08 RX8" you can still use it. If thats the case, sit back and read things carefully first. A renesis is different, but not THAT different.
Lets simplify things a bit. Alot of people are getting confused apparently.
Kits available = low HP potential + higher price/ lower quality
Custom kit = higher HP potential + lower price/higher quality
If you are doing it yourself you can cherry pick the parts, its no secret on the parts they are using in the kits...
I now alot of you guys are not very technical savy and dont realize if something doesnt have a sticker on it saying "fits 04-08 RX8" you can still use it. If thats the case, sit back and read things carefully first. A renesis is different, but not THAT different.
08-16-2008, 12:40 PM
#99
Well, I can see where you are coming from. But, its general advice for any engine ever created.
Lets simplify things a bit. Alot of people are getting confused apparently.
Kits available = low HP potential + higher price/ lower quality
Custom kit = higher HP potential + lower price/higher quality
If you are doing it yourself you can cherry pick the parts, its no secret on the parts they are using in the kits...
I now alot of you guys are not very technical savy and dont realize if something doesnt have a sticker on it saying "fits 04-08 RX8" you can still use it. If thats the case, sit back and read things carefully first. A renesis is different, but not THAT different.
Lets simplify things a bit. Alot of people are getting confused apparently.
Kits available = low HP potential + higher price/ lower quality
Custom kit = higher HP potential + lower price/higher quality
If you are doing it yourself you can cherry pick the parts, its no secret on the parts they are using in the kits...
I now alot of you guys are not very technical savy and dont realize if something doesnt have a sticker on it saying "fits 04-08 RX8" you can still use it. If thats the case, sit back and read things carefully first. A renesis is different, but not THAT different.
There actually are some very high quality kits, like the BHR/MM turbo kit. But I suppose you think a custom cast manifold, a Garrett turbocharger, HKS blow-off valve, custom aluminum piping with bead-rolled ends, Samco Sport couplers, t-bolt clamps, and a COBB AccessPORT is all crappy components, eh? Have you ever even reviewed any of the kits out there for the 8?
You make it sounds like all RX-8 turbo kit offerings are E-Bay crap thrown together, and as of now I only know of one that is suspected of that. Yes, some are expensive, but how many RX-8's are on the road compared to RX-7's? It's a more niche market, less buyers= higher individual cost, it's simple business.
I could easily throw a GT4088 on my car if I wanted and say my turbo supports 700-hp, but I would rather keep my tiny GT3071R and have full boost before the sun sets, and still make my pathetic 400-rwhp.