Pearl White Sleeper

I think the guys at PTP did a great job. The settings are the same, but I am thinking about raising the high setting a couple of psi's when I go for the dyno. Not sure. Do I really need to or I am I just being greedy. I like the idea of it being very dependable, under all circumstances, but I do like the idea of more HP. But the more HP the quicker it will break. So I am not sure what I am going to do when they put it on the dyno.

Rotore_787

screw the hp dud if u could squeeze out a bit more tq you would be set

Kane

iTrader: (1)

eh?

Do you mean more area under the torque curve?

HP is a function of torque....

Pearl White Sleeper

I agree 100%. The tq is still double what it was. Nothing feels better than being pinned to the back of the seat because of all that POWER.............

rgonza

Saludos Rotore 787, Lo que no saben estos gringos que para correr un motor renesis en su forma de origen es casi impsible debido a que los apex seal del renesis no resiten detonacion, por lo cual ningun de estos turbo kits son fiables todos praticamente rompen sus motores( Lo cualninguno de ellos tienen idea por que rompen los motores rapidamente que se le instala estos turbo kit) La mayoria de estos gringos enpesaron a trabajon con motores rotativos ayer nosotros llevamos decadas corriendo rotativos con mucho exito ademas de ser los mas rapidos del mundo en la aceleracion. Mi recomendacion no instale ningun turbo kit a menos que modifques el motor con un buen set de Apex Seal.

rgonza

Remenber we are the word faster rotaries in the entire word we have the faster record 6.97 @ 197 mph in just 13b 2 rotors, Are your have one more faster!!!!!! And yes we,re puertoricans

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

Babelfish Translation: Greetings Rotore 787, Which does not know these gringos who stop to run a motor renesis in their form of origin is almost impsible because apex seal of the renesis does not resiten detonation, thus no of these I disturb kits are trustworthy all praticamente break their motors (cualninguno of them has idea so that they quickly break the motors that settle these to him I disturb kit) the majority of these gringos enpesaron to trabajon with rotary engines we we yesterday took to decades running rotating by far success besides being but the expresses of the world in the acceleration. My recommendation does not install any I disturb kit unless modifques the motor with a good Seth of Apex Seal.

Rotore_787

Eso es lo que yo dije en el otra thread pana esta motor tiene potencial si lo preparan si no pues no va a llegar a ningun lado.

Alnielsen that was a bad translation dude. What Rgonza was trying to say is the most of you are boosting N/A engines without preparing them for it thats why none of these turbo kits are actually worth it because they will literally blow your engine. In other words your skipping one of the most important steps in engine building 101, When boosting an N/A engine you will have to prepare it to take the engine itself to take the boost your going to throw at it (Same property piston or rotary engine), and since we are all running rotary engines this will mean better apex seals like he had stated, etc. etc. etc. you know.

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

^^ thats a good question...

but as far as nothing being a good kit due to no internal modifications(seals)..... the REW's and the like can boost PLENTY with carefull tuning on OEM seals, that said, the RENESIS has been shown to be MUCH more resistant to detonation....

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

correct me if I'm wrong, but isnt compression, compression??

is there a difference between higher compression on low boost vs lower compression on high boost? dont they both end up with the same combustion chamber pressures? seems to me that the limitations would ONLY be due to tuning, as far as comparing the two idealogies

Pearl White Sleeper

Please explain how to get more TQ without additional HP.

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

^^ you cant... HP is a function of TQ and RPM.... at any given RPM if the TQ is increased, the HP will also increase

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

^ sounds logical but why do so many renesis blow ?

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

poor tuning, very poor. i have personal accounts from a few people, and there are PLENTY here that back the idea that the RENESIS seals are much stronger and stand more abuse/detonation than the prior seals....

an its not like everyone is running around with 400-500whp rennies, so standard exceeding the seals capabilities isnt likely.

i think, although i cant explain why, that: high comp - low boost, has the exact same potential as low comp - high boost.... it just may be more taxing to tune the first. either way in the end its the same amount of fuel/air getting compressed one way or another to the same pressures....

Dehacked

Hmmm...That just doesn't sound right. High compression + low boost = low compression + high boost. Wouldn't you end up at a much higher temperature with higher compression? If so then durability will be much worse with higher compression.

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

i may be totally off the rocker here.... bear with me, as i refuse to think about it hard enough to show ACTUAL numbers and math...(i'm too busy)

1) lets say 8.5:1 compression, and 20psi boost.... you're taking a chamber full of A/F at ~20psi, and compressing it at a known ratio..... which ends up creating X pressure at TDC

2) now take 10:1 compression, and 12psi boost... you're taking a chamber full of A/F at ~12psi, and compressing it at a known ratio, which is higher than the previous example... which ends up creating X pressure at TDC

temperature rise is a function of compression... in BOTH cases the A/F is compressed... only difference is one is less compressed via FI and more compressed via the static compression ratio, the other is more compressed viw FI, and less compressed via static compression ratio

blackenedwings

I've been doing a lot of reading up on this exact issue and posting a bunch of questions on this forum... but it seems to me that the bulk of the blown motors from folks on the forum are poor tunes compounded by poor software. The high compression rotors do seem to make a difference in terms of how much boost people are putting out, but also the Rx8 has been out for only 4-5 years with very limited aftermarket support due to the car not being all that popular. The the older 13B has been out for ages and the Rx7 has a huge aftermarket line built up over all that time. Better software, and tunes are easier to come by.

I don't think that the stock seals or the compression of the motor eliminates the Renesis as a viable turbo car with appropriate tuning within reasonable limits. I personally will probably not be pushing past 9-11 psi because I want the car to stay reliable as long as possible. There are several Rx8Club members who have reliable daily driven turboed cars who prove this can be done. Mysql has been driving his turboed 8 for almost 30,000 miles so far?

Pearl White Sleeper

Yes, thanks for the compliment. If you noticed that little teeny tiny dink you must have been very up close and personal. That little teeny tiny dink is still there, I'm working on that and a new hood. I hope you get the satisfaction from driving your boosted RX8 as much as I have. You'll have to learn how to redrive it. It is totally different than driving it stock.

Rotore_787

In some ways thats true tuning can fix most problems but not all. higher compression on low boost is always going less reliable then a lower compression engine with higher boost. the lower comp. engine is built to handel more.

Thats what i was taught

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

while that may appear or even BE true... i am fairly confident that its only a matter of how granular and precise you can get the tuning down that makes it so...

ie... in a perfect world(tuning wise) they should both be the same..

Easy_E1

iTrader: (2)

A lower compression engine has more room for tuning fluctuations. Thus you can just put more boost and more fuel and end up with more power without the fine tuning of a higher compression engine.
Putting more boost to a higher compression engine is more difficult and usually ends with disaster. You can't just throw boost and fuel at it and expect it to work. Tuning is critical.

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

ok, that makes sense^^ but that means that the physical potential for either route is the same, just that low compression is the far more feasible due to tuning capability..??

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Air is air.
However, the difference between compressing a given amount of air a lot and compressing more air somewhat less is not a simple relationship.
Two motors, both achieving a pre-combustion pressure level of 130 PSI.
Both use the same turbo.
One does it by 10:1 compression and 12 PSI of boost.
The other by 8.5:1 compression and 16 PSI of boost.
Which had more flow?

You see, that is part of the problem.

Even though the higher compression motor will have more combustion chamber volume differential (and therefore, torque), the lower compression motor will have more air flowed into it by the turbo and make more power.

Then, we are back to the old discussion of which is more important - power or torque.

Rotore_787

Thats going a peoples preference whether they want more power or torque. But I'm sticking with what i said i'll side with the low comp. engine power it makes wont matter just if i can get a decent torque curve through tuning i'll be straight. just my 2cents