9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

^ Yes, I was eluding to the fact that custom headers can and do make good HP. Eric has talked about that before. I understand these type of headers are very expensive and much money is spent on dyno tuning and development so they are typically out of the price range of many of us wannabe's.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Red,

You aren't factoring in any gain from hand cut seals with proper seal tolerances. That alone, without porting, shows plenty of gains, and those engines dyno closer to 210-215 without other mods.

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

Sorry about that! Yes I'm sure others have done this BHR's design was the first I've seen. There's a good chance that this guys ported car has a custom header with long runners on it.

Thats why i was trying to get the specifics of "major intake and exhaust work".

hoss -05

iTrader: (4)

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

BDC could have taken the guessing out of it in his first post.

reddozen

iTrader: (1)

Very True, but we don't have that info to verify... all we can assume is it's a factory rebuild with a rebuild kit. I don't know. Now if that comes out to be the case, then we still have an idea of the impact.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

I disagree.

We cant assume that someone who will take the trouble and cost of porting, multiple dynos, etc would ignore one of the proven improvements available during a rebuild.

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

Yep he sure could have.

Kind of makes me wonder what else was done.

I imagine we are looking at modified seal clearances, custom headers with long runners, god knows what he did to the intake, tuning of course and the porting. I dont see how 230 whp could be attained without those modifications.

Also I'm not sure how they squeezed an additional 7 whp out. Again I am not doubting the success I just want to know how it got there.

It would be sweet if the owner of the car could chime in with some info...

reddozen

iTrader: (1)

I agree that it would be nice for some more info from the actual owner, but I highly doubt that it has a custom long runner manifold. Logically it's more likely that it's an OBX or Racing Beat header kinda situation.

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

You wont see gains with any type of aftermarket header, if anything you will lose power.

Thats been well documented.

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

my dyno's say otherwise...

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

I don't believe you will loose power with a RB header. Of all the companies out there, they are the last that I would believe to put out a bad product.

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

Fair enough this is the first I've heard of anyone making power with the RB header.

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

another 1st for the Jedi Master~!

alright, I probably wasn't he first guy but I did have an increase in torque and hp with the Racing Beat header. It was right around what I expected.

Chad D.

iTrader: (19)

I am planning on getting a long running tuned header this summer. I'll make sure I get all the info and I'll post up the #'s

fuztupnz

iTrader: (4)

Hey Chad, maybe we can broadcast a feed from the shop for a bit while they tune it.

Chad D.

iTrader: (19)

from the sounds of it it takes a long time, and it'll be their first renesis, I will archive it though.

EricMeyer

A. How do you know

B. Prove your comment please. I personally have experienced with anywhere from .020 to .002 total side seal clearances and there is ZERO differences in power. Back this up with two of the best rotary engine builders in the US and who live in the N.West region of the US. ZERO gains.

Please know what your talking about or at least back it up with data or facts or your sources.

Respectfully,

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

I took what he said as information, guess I should have taken it as a grain of salt.

Wouldn't a side seal clearance at .002 versus .2 create higher compression and power?

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Ray Hill's engine building and even Shadycrew's own engine he hand built.

I don't know the tolerance numbers, but is 0.020 side seal clearance still better than Mazda's OEM?

There have been numerous discussions by CRH on the boards where he discusses that Mazda's OEM side seal clearances work, are hardly good. Proper clearancing of the side seals makes a difference.


Re-reading my prior response, I probably should have used different words. Red was attributing a large power gain to porting, but using a common OEM Mazda engine as the baseline instead of a hand-built one that has had proper side seal clearances as the baseline. That was the point I was making. There is a power difference between those two, though maybe I should have termed it "avoiding power loss" instead of "gains".

I would expect that your engines were all superior to OEM Mazda clearance amounts.

EricMeyer

I/we have found zero power differences when using various side seal clearance differences. We have even fidgeted with the shape of the side seal as it relates to the corner seal to look for a tighter gap and have seen zero differences. In my personal experience these few thousandth differences make no differences with the Renesis.

This thread is becoming quite entertaining as quite a few people have offered information that is quite contrary to things we know to be factual. Here are a few things that we've tried:

Lightened rotors not by racing beat, several, several balanced rotating assemblies, tested stock crate engines from Mazda, 7 different header designs, 3" to 4" exhaust systems, two different aluminum rotors (suck), non-oem throttle body, engine dynos, hot vs room temp drivetrain power differences, 190 vs 220F oil temp power differences, ceramic coated rotors, various side seal clearances, etc., etc.,..... I would offer that each of these had/have very small differences in power. Collectively they all work together in a system and trying variations results in a fair amount of knowledge.

This is why I read some of these posts and giggle like a bubble gum chewing lady gaga listening teenager on her first date. There are more things we have tried and I may share them one day. Not today.

Happy rotoring everyone. Change your oil, clean your plugs and remember to get your car serviced regularly so when you go have fun and drive fast or whatever you do your car is safe and sound. Safety first always.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Understood.

Thanks Eric, I always look forward to reading when you share your learnings.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Hmm. Then you are doing something wrong.

Or, possibly, we are doing something else and are just unaware of it.

Of course, there is more to side-seal clearance than the end gap.

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

I thought this kind demand for scientific proofing/processes was no longer necessary to you when discussing power gains (?). Are we allowed to submit dyno charts dated one year apart from each other? How about if we are vague regarding what else we did with the engines that are being discussed?

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

need popcorn