BDC Street port vs. stock port dyno comparison
05-20-2011, 10:03 AM
#77
BDC Motorsports
Thread Starter
05-20-2011, 10:14 AM
#78
Release the twins.
Based on your post count. i'd say that you probably reply with alot of yes's and no's without any further explanation to your said "yes's" or "no's" and therefore makes you look like a know it all, while not knowing how to explain said YES, or NO, makes you completely worthless in a forum full of sharing.
Originally Posted by olddragger
I take it that this port work does not modify any port timing?
Originally Posted by Bdc
Yes on the balancing and yes on port timing.
Originally Posted by bdc
No, the outlet shape of the port (aka the part that people use templates for). That was my main focus and that's where I believe it made the most gain
Last edited by lastphaseofthis; 05-20-2011 at 10:19 AM.
05-20-2011, 10:22 AM
#79
BDC Motorsports
Thread Starter
Based on your reply to my post in this thread, I'd say that you failed to enlighten me on Said "missed boat", and therefor your contribution was completely unnessassary.
Based on your post count. i'd say that you probably reply with alot of yes's and no's without any further explanation to your said "yes's" or "no's" and therefore makes you look like a know it all, while not knowing how to explain said YES, or NO, makes you completely worthless in a forum full of sharing.
so you increased the port size(AREA) for increased flow while keeping the port opening and closing times the same? interesting...
Based on your post count. i'd say that you probably reply with alot of yes's and no's without any further explanation to your said "yes's" or "no's" and therefore makes you look like a know it all, while not knowing how to explain said YES, or NO, makes you completely worthless in a forum full of sharing.
so you increased the port size(AREA) for increased flow while keeping the port opening and closing times the same? interesting...
Doing port opening timing on this motor is difficult to do due to seal placement and how the factory ports are laid in already.
B
05-20-2011, 10:39 AM
#80
Release the twins.
No, I did a fairly radical change (well, for stock that is...) on one of the ports to greatly increase its port timing plus pushed its closing timing a bit later.
Doing port opening timing on this motor is difficult to do due to seal placement and how the factory ports are laid in already.
B
Doing port opening timing on this motor is difficult to do due to seal placement and how the factory ports are laid in already.
B
? secondarys? and what about the "this port work does not modify any port timing" did you mean yes i did modify the port timing? This is what confused me a bit..
05-20-2011, 03:13 PM
#82
BDC Motorsports
Thread Starter
05-20-2011, 03:26 PM
#83
interesting interesting. Great work Brian
Couple weeks ago, I ordered all 5 brand new housings from Mazda, asked them to send it to Brian for work(you should know who lol), housings came back last week, and I just had some time to look closely to it. Beautiful work I gotta say. too bad still no time to put it back together.
I guess when my RX-8 engine pop or going to SC, I am so gonna let Brian to port my Renesis first
(BTW, I think I should be able to send the throttle bodies for both FC and FE to you maybe next or next next week)
Couple weeks ago, I ordered all 5 brand new housings from Mazda, asked them to send it to Brian for work(you should know who lol), housings came back last week, and I just had some time to look closely to it. Beautiful work I gotta say. too bad still no time to put it back together.
I guess when my RX-8 engine pop or going to SC, I am so gonna let Brian to port my Renesis first
(BTW, I think I should be able to send the throttle bodies for both FC and FE to you maybe next or next next week)
05-21-2011, 09:39 AM
#84
Release the twins.
just for the sake of trial and error, we know power CAN be made with overlapp, but i'm also keeping in mind this "efficiency thing". what ever the hell that is.
got any pix of the port? if you don't want to share publicly i understand, if a jpg was to show up in my email, it would be completely confidential.
05-23-2011, 07:59 AM
#85
Registered
Brian, if I were you, I'd shut my trap and quit offering free consulting to this forum. You have obviously worked hard at figuring things out and this work product should be used as your business advantage. Let others figure it out and capitalize on your efforts by either charging for this knowledge or being tight lipped and doing the "you want results?, send me your irons". There is entirely too much F BS on here by ney sayers who have not and probably will never experiement, fail, fail again and learn many things during this process. Entirely too many F nay sayers. Let's those people show their results---any results. I applaud you 200% for showing something that I have been asking and looking for on this forum for YEARS.
Now shut up and let your dyno pulls do the talking. It aint about air flow. It's about what that air flow does. I have seen (and performed) much flow bench work on piston motors and there is certainly an art to this. More cfm does not equal more power. And to be quite frank, the big boys have ways of measuring power gains and losses when the car is actually used in its true environment---in our case on the track. THAT is where success is measured. Nobody gets a trophy for having the highest airflow numbers.
Now shut up and let your dyno pulls do the talking. It aint about air flow. It's about what that air flow does. I have seen (and performed) much flow bench work on piston motors and there is certainly an art to this. More cfm does not equal more power. And to be quite frank, the big boys have ways of measuring power gains and losses when the car is actually used in its true environment---in our case on the track. THAT is where success is measured. Nobody gets a trophy for having the highest airflow numbers.
05-23-2011, 08:41 AM
#86
I agree--Brian the word is now out and let the results speak for themselves. It's funny that some folks have not mentioned some things that are easily seen in the pictures.
Eric is right on --again--it aint about total air flow (although that can help!) its about what happens to that air/fuel charge.
PM sent.
Eric is right on --again--it aint about total air flow (although that can help!) its about what happens to that air/fuel charge.
PM sent.
05-23-2011, 09:56 AM
#87
Brian, if I were you, I'd shut my trap and quit offering free consulting to this forum. You have obviously worked hard at figuring things out and this work product should be used as your business advantage. Let others figure it out and capitalize on your efforts by either charging for this knowledge or being tight lipped and doing the "you want results?, send me your irons". There is entirely too much F BS on here by ney sayers who have not and probably will never experiement, fail, fail again and learn many things during this process. Entirely too many F nay sayers. Let's those people show their results---any results. I applaud you 200% for showing something that I have been asking and looking for on this forum for YEARS.
Now shut up and let your dyno pulls do the talking. It aint about air flow. It's about what that air flow does. I have seen (and performed) much flow bench work on piston motors and there is certainly an art to this. More cfm does not equal more power. And to be quite frank, the big boys have ways of measuring power gains and losses when the car is actually used in its true environment---in our case on the track. THAT is where success is measured. Nobody gets a trophy for having the highest airflow numbers.
Now shut up and let your dyno pulls do the talking. It aint about air flow. It's about what that air flow does. I have seen (and performed) much flow bench work on piston motors and there is certainly an art to this. More cfm does not equal more power. And to be quite frank, the big boys have ways of measuring power gains and losses when the car is actually used in its true environment---in our case on the track. THAT is where success is measured. Nobody gets a trophy for having the highest airflow numbers.
I agree--Brian the word is now out and let the results speak for themselves. It's funny that some folks have not mentioned some things that are easily seen in the pictures.
Eric is right on --again--it aint about total air flow (although that can help!) its about what happens to that air/fuel charge.
PM sent.
Eric is right on --again--it aint about total air flow (although that can help!) its about what happens to that air/fuel charge.
PM sent.
05-23-2011, 11:05 PM
#88
BDC Motorsports
Thread Starter
Thanks, Longpath. I'm not telling anyone how I did it. There's folks out there that'll copy it or try to. Been doing this a long time and it's happened before.
B
B
05-23-2011, 11:23 PM
#89
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Now shut up and let your dyno pulls do the talking. It aint about air flow. It's about what that air flow does. I have seen (and performed) much flow bench work on piston motors and there is certainly an art to this. More cfm does not equal more power. And to be quite frank, the big boys have ways of measuring power gains and losses when the car is actually used in its true environment---in our case on the track. THAT is where success is measured. Nobody gets a trophy for having the highest airflow numbers.
05-24-2011, 02:09 AM
#90
there are a lot of reasons races are won and lost, having the highest HP Renesis doesn't necessarily enter into it, the opposite could in fact be true and you are winning based on other factors like superior preparation, handling, reliability, driver skill, luck, etc.
what is being asked for is some frame of relative reference to make a sincere judgement on what has been achieved, some dyno from 4 years ago is no more valid than my own 220 rwhp dyno on a stock port engine. Your claims are always that your dyno reads lower and accurate, but again what is the basis for this claim? Your "scientific" word? I have no doubt you are seeing gains over where you may be unported, but where exactly are you other than your own frame of reference? That is the basic question.
what is being asked for is some frame of relative reference to make a sincere judgement on what has been achieved, some dyno from 4 years ago is no more valid than my own 220 rwhp dyno on a stock port engine. Your claims are always that your dyno reads lower and accurate, but again what is the basis for this claim? Your "scientific" word? I have no doubt you are seeing gains over where you may be unported, but where exactly are you other than your own frame of reference? That is the basic question.
05-25-2011, 01:32 AM
#92
rev it up
Great to see a gain and I am sure if others go down this track then we should see other dyno figures to back up the original claim. So far this is looking very promising.
I wonder if a template can be produced so owners from other countries could benefit from this development.
As we know that dyno figures are calculated by inputting various external parameters and these have to be identical each time and on the same dyno to get a accurate comparison.
I wonder if a template can be produced so owners from other countries could benefit from this development.
As we know that dyno figures are calculated by inputting various external parameters and these have to be identical each time and on the same dyno to get a accurate comparison.
06-10-2011, 05:03 AM
#94
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1. You get +20% power with port/intake/exhaust
2. Racing beat intake/exhaust/tune get +12/14%, say 13%
So porting was responsible for +7%, possibly more with tuning.
About right or oversimplified?
06-10-2011, 09:09 AM
#96
In an attempt to separate the porting gains from the intake/exhaust gains.
1. You get +20% power with port/intake/exhaust
2. Racing beat intake/exhaust/tune get +12/14%, say 13%
So porting was responsible for +7%, possibly more with tuning.
About right or oversimplified?
1. You get +20% power with port/intake/exhaust
2. Racing beat intake/exhaust/tune get +12/14%, say 13%
So porting was responsible for +7%, possibly more with tuning.
About right or oversimplified?
The first car was done in 2007 and was stock engine (fresh), stock ECU, with an AEM intake setup, catalytic convertor deletion, and all else stock. Basically a base mod car plopped on the dyno.
Based on post #51
I know it's an AEM intake kit thing. The exhaust is header change, full exhaust change from there back to the two tips
So knowing this,
1) the only thing this guy changed was to add a header (adds basically nothing) and a new muffler (adds basically nothing). I would guess no more than a 5HP gain from the header and muffler if that.
2) he's not using the racing beat intake, so gains you've listed including that intake are useless, and even more so since the AEM was on the car before the port work.
3) I can however agree with the potential for around a 10HP gain from tuning in an ideal situation.
So you're looking at no more than a 15HP gain. I've talked to Brian and he's told me the car is up to 230HP now. That means a total gain of 45HP. So 60~66% of the total gain is due to the porting unless something else changed that we have no knowledge of.
We can basically say that a good street port (tuned) can get you around 20~30 wheel horse power. The only thing that may make that value less is factoring in just how much tuning will have an effect on a cat delete. I would assume that it wouldn't allow you to tune a lot more out of it since all you're doing is loosing up the exhaust flow, and not specifically adjusting the air / fuel ratio.
Last edited by reddozen; 06-10-2011 at 09:28 AM.
06-10-2011, 10:22 AM
#99
The only header that will show any gains ever is the one BHR is crafting up, the only reason for this is the runners extend farther. I've seen these setups at custom exhaust shops the gains are notable. Not sure if they will release it anytime soon, due to you needing a custom mid pipe as well.
Mine might have helped a bit (1hp) due to it being wrapped, other than they are pointless (it does help with drone on the highway). It doesn't matter if its exoticspeed, re, racing beat, obx... They all have the same designs the only difference you will see is welding and brand names.
Intakes do absolutely 0 for performance gains, unless the *** end of it is running to a turbocharger, you will likely loose power...
Mine might have helped a bit (1hp) due to it being wrapped, other than they are pointless (it does help with drone on the highway). It doesn't matter if its exoticspeed, re, racing beat, obx... They all have the same designs the only difference you will see is welding and brand names.
Intakes do absolutely 0 for performance gains, unless the *** end of it is running to a turbocharger, you will likely loose power...
06-10-2011, 10:26 AM
#100
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Shady,
EricMeyer stated that in their header development, they found real and tangible gains from header design.
So I'd say that stating the 'BHR's is the only one with gains ever' isn't accurate. Perhaps the only consumer aftermarket header, but there are available headers out there that have those gains. Speedsource is willing to sell their setup for a rather large chunk of change, for example.
EricMeyer stated that in their header development, they found real and tangible gains from header design.
So I'd say that stating the 'BHR's is the only one with gains ever' isn't accurate. Perhaps the only consumer aftermarket header, but there are available headers out there that have those gains. Speedsource is willing to sell their setup for a rather large chunk of change, for example.