Axial Flow Supercharger
02-13-2006, 06:54 PM
#2826
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Doesn't methanol contain oxygen in it, so if you do inject it, you have to richen anyways to get more gas into there, so you don't run lean. I know that the top fuel racers run with something like 5 or 6:1 A/F.
02-13-2006, 06:59 PM
#2827
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Originally Posted by mike1324a
The idea of adding more fuel before the manifold is good but what about the idea of the build up of fuel and residue as a result of fuel just sitting in the manifold sections thats valves are closed off like the runners that open at the higher RPMs. the less that valve is open the more build up you will get. So the runners that only open at 7000+ rpm would have a huge build up due to the fact that they are not open very offen. Is this a solid presumption, Richard or Rotarygod, any ideas?
If Richard ever did do a fuel injector before the blower in the future, it would only come on after a set rpm when airflow is much faster. Also consider that a fuel injector has a much higher pressure fuel stream which is a much finer mist. The blower will make sure that this mist really gets dispersed into little bits. When the fuel is atomized to this amount, it goes where the air goes. When certain intake runners are closed off, air doesn't go there. The fuel won't either. It will just bypass these runners until they open.
02-13-2006, 07:13 PM
#2828
Bummed, but bring on OU!
Originally Posted by Richard Paul
In fact this might be easier on a four port. It looks like the four port is dead and they will not be making them anymore.
02-13-2006, 08:16 PM
#2829
The Professor
Originally Posted by Beodude123
Doesn't methanol contain oxygen in it, so if you do inject it, you have to richen anyways to get more gas into there, so you don't run lean. I know that the top fuel racers run with something like 5 or 6:1 A/F.
02-13-2006, 09:09 PM
#2830
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Originally Posted by Richard Paul
This probably will not happen as the air is going toward the vacuum sorce which is the open port. If in fact it did happen a small 1/8 hole in each blade would handle the problem without any effect on airflow design.
We would love to do it this way for the highspeed fueling but the electronics are more difficult and we will leave this for a later date. In fact this might be easier on a four port. It looks like the four port is dead and they will not be making them anymore.
I really deel that the Mazda is the ideal engine for prehomoginized fuel. It makes sense when you look at its big problem of the extended combustion chamber. I wish Mazda would give me a research project to try this under lab conditions. It wouldn't cost much and the potential is great. Now that we are a tad away from having the install ready it would only take the fueling hardware and managment software. Are yo out there Mazda??
What if that were the breakthrough? Would Mazda switch to rotorys for more models? Does that save money? What costs more to make a rotary or piston engine?
We would love to do it this way for the highspeed fueling but the electronics are more difficult and we will leave this for a later date. In fact this might be easier on a four port. It looks like the four port is dead and they will not be making them anymore.
I really deel that the Mazda is the ideal engine for prehomoginized fuel. It makes sense when you look at its big problem of the extended combustion chamber. I wish Mazda would give me a research project to try this under lab conditions. It wouldn't cost much and the potential is great. Now that we are a tad away from having the install ready it would only take the fueling hardware and managment software. Are yo out there Mazda??
What if that were the breakthrough? Would Mazda switch to rotorys for more models? Does that save money? What costs more to make a rotary or piston engine?
If it was the "breakthrough"? Well the design rotary that Mazda uses still does burn oil... which is an issue (people are lazy). Also something I have been wondering is the service life of your blower. This is only because jet engines used in aviation seem to require such significant amounts of service to keep them running properly and the chances of ending up with a compressor blade ending up in the combustion chamber. Nothing to do with your work... just that jet engines seem to be a little... delicate. That's all. I figure Mazda/Ford would also ask the same question too since your blower isn't in widespread use in the automotive world.
More rotaries in more cars? Well. Mazda might... they do have the hydrogen powered version and the hybrid version (which also adds FWD configuration)... so who knows. There are just a few issues though...
1. The engines are assembled by hand in the original factory (from back in the day). Not much capacity there. Any significant changes/retooling/improvements/whatever will cost some cash flow.
2. Even if Mazda put a rotary in everything they make... it's not used anywhere else... so there is a limit to economy of scale here... especially when combined with #1.
3. Because of #1 and #2, the rotary isn't so cheap to make. In theory... if it was being produced on the scale that piston engines are... considering less parts and simple assembly... it should be less expensive. Should be.
02-13-2006, 09:51 PM
#2831
Considering the continous hours of service that turbine engines do at high power settings, I feel they have a better "service life". And one of the reasons they are so fastidiously serviced in aviation circles is the human life saftey factor.
I guess they are delicate if they ingest something (FOD). But so are all engines, even rotars. I also remember a particular start line incident where a V12 Jag injested a small peice of headlight glass... Not long till it was a V11, then a V0.
Cheers,
Hymee.
I guess they are delicate if they ingest something (FOD). But so are all engines, even rotars. I also remember a particular start line incident where a V12 Jag injested a small peice of headlight glass... Not long till it was a V11, then a V0.
Cheers,
Hymee.
02-13-2006, 11:04 PM
#2832
I don't really know the actual hrs that service is required for modern turbine engines but I think in the thousands for the C section. Even the Hot section goes for far more hours then a piston engine does. Turbine_pwr can give you the numbers or maybe some of our pilot friends can chime in here.
Wildcard, John Corbitt. Don't we have two helo pilots on this thread named Jon?
And some more military that I'm not aware of, you have to be there.
How about some aircraft maintaince guys.
Just reread that and have to touch on something. What we have here is one rotating part that touches no other part. Other then the bearings and gears no wear can be antisapated. The bearings are rated for over full speed of the blower and yet the blower spends very little time even close to top speed. That is one thing about aircraft engines, they spend thier life almost full speed and 80% load.
Nothing driven on the road can ever do that kind of service. Only in the air or on the ocean is there full load full speed continuos duty possable. Those pilots always back off from there after getting to speed. But only a %.
A tuna trawler might at time see full service for a distance though. Maybe warships and offshore sex boats.
Wildcard, John Corbitt. Don't we have two helo pilots on this thread named Jon?
And some more military that I'm not aware of, you have to be there.
How about some aircraft maintaince guys.
Just reread that and have to touch on something. What we have here is one rotating part that touches no other part. Other then the bearings and gears no wear can be antisapated. The bearings are rated for over full speed of the blower and yet the blower spends very little time even close to top speed. That is one thing about aircraft engines, they spend thier life almost full speed and 80% load.
Nothing driven on the road can ever do that kind of service. Only in the air or on the ocean is there full load full speed continuos duty possable. Those pilots always back off from there after getting to speed. But only a %.
A tuna trawler might at time see full service for a distance though. Maybe warships and offshore sex boats.
Last edited by Richard Paul; 02-13-2006 at 11:16 PM.
02-14-2006, 12:05 AM
#2833
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Originally Posted by Hymee
Considering the continous hours of service that turbine engines do at high power settings, I feel they have a better "service life". And one of the reasons they are so fastidiously serviced in aviation circles is the human life saftey factor.
I guess they are delicate if they ingest something (FOD). But so are all engines, even rotars. I also remember a particular start line incident where a V12 Jag injested a small peice of headlight glass... Not long till it was a V11, then a V0.
Cheers,
Hymee.
Cheers,
Hymee.
Originally Posted by Richard Paul
I don't really know the actual hrs that service is required for modern turbine engines but I think in the thousands for the C section. Even the Hot section goes for far more hours then a piston engine does. Turbine_pwr can give you the numbers or maybe some of our pilot friends can chime in here.
Wildcard, John Corbitt. Don't we have two helo pilots on this thread named Jon?
And some more military that I'm not aware of, you have to be there.
How about some aircraft maintaince guys.
Just reread that and have to touch on something. What we have here is one rotating part that touches no other part. Other then the bearings and gears no wear can be antisapated. The bearings are rated for over full speed of the blower and yet the blower spends very little time even close to top speed. That is one thing about aircraft engines, they spend thier life almost full speed and 80% load.
Nothing driven on the road can ever do that kind of service. Only in the air or on the ocean is there full load full speed continuos duty possable. Those pilots always back off from there after getting to speed. But only a %.
A tuna trawler might at time see full service for a distance though. Maybe warships and offshore sex boats.
Wildcard, John Corbitt. Don't we have two helo pilots on this thread named Jon?
And some more military that I'm not aware of, you have to be there.
How about some aircraft maintaince guys.
Just reread that and have to touch on something. What we have here is one rotating part that touches no other part. Other then the bearings and gears no wear can be antisapated. The bearings are rated for over full speed of the blower and yet the blower spends very little time even close to top speed. That is one thing about aircraft engines, they spend thier life almost full speed and 80% load.
Nothing driven on the road can ever do that kind of service. Only in the air or on the ocean is there full load full speed continuos duty possable. Those pilots always back off from there after getting to speed. But only a %.
A tuna trawler might at time see full service for a distance though. Maybe warships and offshore sex boats.
I was only trying to think of possible issues or questions the automakers would have about something like this. We all know how much *** covering they do... sometimes by necessity. Liability and service costs are obvious things they would be concerned with.
With how you've got your unit well over-spec'd... it sounds like there should be many years of problem-free operation.
HEY MAZDA! Give this man some research money... he might just have what you've been looking for.
02-14-2006, 09:11 AM
#2837
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Originally Posted by Beodude123
Doesn't methanol contain oxygen in it, so if you do inject it, you have to richen anyways to get more gas into there, so you don't run lean. I know that the top fuel racers run with something like 5 or 6:1 A/F.
If anything you would need to lean the mixture somewhat in case methanol actually burns and if it burns it will burn oxygen during the combustion process. This can especially be seen on Diesel engines that inject a water/methanol mixture (black fumes).
02-14-2006, 11:23 AM
#2839
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RP I know you are a stickler for using your own designs/idea so there is no concern about something not being a quality product. However would the ELF (BRP ELF LINK ) work on the fuel side of things for now to get the monster up an running so we can see some dyno numbers.
Instructions on bottom of page; the instructions show the unit will work on engines with injectors varying from 2 to 4 with optional electrical tag for an additional injector or water injection.
Instructions on bottom of page; the instructions show the unit will work on engines with injectors varying from 2 to 4 with optional electrical tag for an additional injector or water injection.
02-14-2006, 01:31 PM
#2840
When our engines are at idle the 12 stage compressor is spinning at 62%. We can fly for 16hours nonstop with the engine running at about 95%. 5th stage bleed air is quite often over 40psi. Richards compressor putting out 6psi is hardly having to do any work. Any FOD (Forign Object Dammage) injested that would damage the compressor would certainly damage the rotary engine. This is why it is so important to always use an air filter.
John
John
02-16-2006, 02:12 AM
#2843
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Originally Posted by fenderlover
ATTENTION
is it possible to make a sticky of just the information given not all the posts because it's hard for me to get all the info from 190 pages!!!1
thx
is it possible to make a sticky of just the information given not all the posts because it's hard for me to get all the info from 190 pages!!!1
thx
02-16-2006, 10:35 AM
#2844
Originally Posted by Japan8
If it was the "breakthrough"? Well the design rotary that Mazda uses still does burn oil... which is an issue (people are lazy). Also something I have been wondering is the service life of your blower. This is only because jet engines used in aviation seem to require such significant amounts of service to keep them running properly and the chances of ending up with a compressor blade ending up in the combustion chamber. Nothing to do with your work... just that jet engines seem to be a little... delicate. That's all. I figure Mazda/Ford would also ask the same question too since your blower isn't in widespread use in the automotive world.
02-16-2006, 12:59 PM
#2845
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Originally Posted by Aseras
I've seen engineers at grumman chuck frozen turkeys through running engines to test their durability.. they are pretty damn hardy... since this isnt going to be exposed to anything thanks to ducting and a filter i'd expect it to last a VERY long time.
02-16-2006, 02:19 PM
#2847
https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...chmentid=22438
See page 14 post 204
At this time we are only making the SC to TB adapter from CF.
What comes from the TB on foward we don't know yet. We havn't gotten there.
See page 14 post 204
At this time we are only making the SC to TB adapter from CF.
What comes from the TB on foward we don't know yet. We havn't gotten there.
Last edited by Richard Paul; 02-16-2006 at 02:22 PM.
02-16-2006, 02:40 PM
#2849
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Originally Posted by Nemesis8
I did not know that frozen turkeys could fly 
I don't think FOD is too much of a worry since the SC is downstream of filters and screens.
02-16-2006, 05:58 PM
#2850
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Thanks for the great laugh. I love reading threads like this...
I'll gladly take any of your guys hard earned cash and develop some sort of magic never before seen part that boosts 19psi and only raises air temps 10 degrees.. and my delivery time will be just like this - between now and someday...
Just shoot nos or buy a regular turbo instead of trying to think outside of the x-box on this one. It's a proven, reliable element that you can run for 100,000 miles at 7 psi...
If you want more power than that, just go buy a 20B and drop it in your '8.
LOL thanks! Great thread!
I'll gladly take any of your guys hard earned cash and develop some sort of magic never before seen part that boosts 19psi and only raises air temps 10 degrees.. and my delivery time will be just like this - between now and someday...
Just shoot nos or buy a regular turbo instead of trying to think outside of the x-box on this one. It's a proven, reliable element that you can run for 100,000 miles at 7 psi...
If you want more power than that, just go buy a 20B and drop it in your '8.
LOL thanks! Great thread!