On-board Camera setup
03-22-2009, 11:40 AM
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On-board Camera setup
There are relatively few threads that give any level of detail to camera installations, so I am working mostly blind here. Since I am working blindly, I am not going to spend much on this first attempt or series of attempts, so everything will be via ebay for now. Once I get a CarPC up and running sometime this year, I will likely re-do the cameras with better quality.
I want to get this going now, since I am leveraging my upcoming birthday to get the wife willing to let me spend money on it, and I want it in place before our 140-mile mountain highway run on May 1st/2nd.
(https://www.rx8club.com/ne-rx-8-forum-29/kancamagus-highway-rotary-run-2009-a-164758/)
So far, the ebay sellers are apparently justifying their low price by lack of information about the product. Probably an attempt to cut labor costs. I have a laptop that will handle the incoming video, and I will be mounting it in my glove box for this run. It won't fit in if I close it, but even open it is the easiest, quickest location to securely mount it for lots and lots of mountain roads
Mounting:
I think I want to go with 3 or 4 cameras. A camera facing directly forward is certainly the biggest priority, however the additional cameras would add further visual appeal on playback. I don't think a camera pointing out each side of the 8 is ideal either. The 2 side cameras would tend to miss alot, due to the high passage rate of objects across the view, and there would be missing video from off each corner, which is of perticular concern when you are on the twisties. A straight forward camera on the twisties misses alot. Instead, I would go with 1 directly forward, and 1 each covering ~45 degrees of each corner. So I would have 3 cameras covering continuous ~120 degree arc of the entire front. If I got a 4th camera, then it would be either optional interior forward camera (maybe instrument display?) or a rear camera.
For the actual mounting points, I would prefer exterior mounted. Interior mounts tend to lack appealing sound, and are generally hard to do without being either tacky or glaringly obvious. I love subtle.
The forward camera would probably be best mounted in the rotory symbol in the front lower air dam, or in the front grill. Lower air dam is ideal, being lower to the ground. The higher the camera the more you lose I think.
The forward right and forward left cameras have a few options. Either also in the lower air dam gap, maybe in the corners, or in the corner of the oil cooler openings. These would be fairly obvious I think, but clear from obstruction. Another option is actually in the wheel well splash guard, above and behind the front tires. I am not lowered, so there is enough of a gap that I could see above the tire. This view is probably the most dramatic and would make great video, but it also means that the camera would be pelted with whatever junk I drive across unless it is shielded somehow, and I would definitely lose all usable video if it is raining. I would probably cut a hole for the camera, mount it back behind the plastic guard, and shield it with a clear acrylic or plastic mounted in front of the guard.
I could just mount all the cameras at the base or top of the windshield. Would be the simplest installation, but I think I would get irritated with it quick. Will probably do that just for initial testing first anyway, but don't want to keep it that way unless I can get them really blended in somehow.
Thoughts?
Equipment:
I have been digging through cheap ebay options, and so far I like the following setup the best (with reservations still)
Cost: $58.04 including shipping, + cables
4 pinhole 'security' cameras, RCA connection
Edit: The first one i found i mistook for a camera, it is a mic, not a camera. Still looking for RCA camera option.
x4 RCA - to - USB DVR connection
http://cgi.ebay.com/4-Channel-USB-DV...3%3A1|294%3A50
Advantages of this is only 1 USB connection, unlike the options below, and RCA cables are cheap to get the lengths I need to locate the cameras in various places.
Disadvantages are the cameras themselves. There is hardly any information on them, and it is entirely possible that the cameras are super low resolution. The DVR description leaves alot to be desired, and the RCA cameras would pretty much require wiring the power. I can do it, just more complication.
The 2nd best option I am looking at is this one:
x3 or x4 of one of the following:
http://cgi.ebay.com/6-LED-USB-Night-...3%3A3|294%3A50
This one being 'night vision' makes me a bit skeptical, but would certainly be an added bonus if it actually worked. Generally just low light works fine, since my headlights would be on anyway for those night runs.
http://cgi.ebay.com/10-0M-USB-WEBCAM...3%3A1|294%3A50
This one is simply the cheapest, and has the camera distilled down to it's smallest form, without the excess packaging.
http://cgi.ebay.com/USB-8-0M-LED-Web...3%3A1|294%3A50
I like this camera the best, simply due to the resolution, and the 'barrel' shape of the camera. The mounts that are shown would be discarded, cut off if needed. The 'lighting' switch on the cable might be useful, but there isn't much information about what that actually does though.
Advantages are with the knowledge of what I am buying. Those cameras are clearly detailed out, and any of them should work fine. Being USB, they would receive their power from the laptop (which has a car adapter), so wiring in power is not a concern.
Disadvantages are with not knowing if more than 1 input can be accepted by the software packages, and having to get 3 or 4 USB cables run to my laptop and plugged in. Yes, a Hub is an option, but hubs don't always function smoothly when there are simultaneous signals running through them, and this would have 3 or 4 essentially identical signals passing through simultaneously. May or may not work. The USB cable length is also a concern. I can get extensions, but this is also not ideal.
There are microphones with several of the camera options. I would probably disable at least all but 1. I would want the sound input to be from the engine bay or exhaust, which also might be cutting out the microphone portion and relocating it. A microphone on a camera on the front of the car generally gets alot of wind noise, and I want engine noise. Interior mic isn't an option. I know that no one is interested in listening to me talk or what music I listen to. I hate those videos that the owners feel the need to add music to cover up the other noises. I want my engine to do the music for me
Opinions, suggestions, comments? This is fairly new territory for me. I have experience with stationary CCTV in buildings, but nothing on a vehicle.
I want to get this going now, since I am leveraging my upcoming birthday to get the wife willing to let me spend money on it, and I want it in place before our 140-mile mountain highway run on May 1st/2nd.
(https://www.rx8club.com/ne-rx-8-forum-29/kancamagus-highway-rotary-run-2009-a-164758/)
So far, the ebay sellers are apparently justifying their low price by lack of information about the product. Probably an attempt to cut labor costs. I have a laptop that will handle the incoming video, and I will be mounting it in my glove box for this run. It won't fit in if I close it, but even open it is the easiest, quickest location to securely mount it for lots and lots of mountain roads
Mounting:
I think I want to go with 3 or 4 cameras. A camera facing directly forward is certainly the biggest priority, however the additional cameras would add further visual appeal on playback. I don't think a camera pointing out each side of the 8 is ideal either. The 2 side cameras would tend to miss alot, due to the high passage rate of objects across the view, and there would be missing video from off each corner, which is of perticular concern when you are on the twisties. A straight forward camera on the twisties misses alot. Instead, I would go with 1 directly forward, and 1 each covering ~45 degrees of each corner. So I would have 3 cameras covering continuous ~120 degree arc of the entire front. If I got a 4th camera, then it would be either optional interior forward camera (maybe instrument display?) or a rear camera.
For the actual mounting points, I would prefer exterior mounted. Interior mounts tend to lack appealing sound, and are generally hard to do without being either tacky or glaringly obvious. I love subtle.
The forward camera would probably be best mounted in the rotory symbol in the front lower air dam, or in the front grill. Lower air dam is ideal, being lower to the ground. The higher the camera the more you lose I think.
The forward right and forward left cameras have a few options. Either also in the lower air dam gap, maybe in the corners, or in the corner of the oil cooler openings. These would be fairly obvious I think, but clear from obstruction. Another option is actually in the wheel well splash guard, above and behind the front tires. I am not lowered, so there is enough of a gap that I could see above the tire. This view is probably the most dramatic and would make great video, but it also means that the camera would be pelted with whatever junk I drive across unless it is shielded somehow, and I would definitely lose all usable video if it is raining. I would probably cut a hole for the camera, mount it back behind the plastic guard, and shield it with a clear acrylic or plastic mounted in front of the guard.
I could just mount all the cameras at the base or top of the windshield. Would be the simplest installation, but I think I would get irritated with it quick. Will probably do that just for initial testing first anyway, but don't want to keep it that way unless I can get them really blended in somehow.
Thoughts?
Equipment:
I have been digging through cheap ebay options, and so far I like the following setup the best (with reservations still)
Cost: $58.04 including shipping, + cables
4 pinhole 'security' cameras, RCA connection
Edit: The first one i found i mistook for a camera, it is a mic, not a camera. Still looking for RCA camera option.
x4 RCA - to - USB DVR connection
http://cgi.ebay.com/4-Channel-USB-DV...3%3A1|294%3A50
Advantages of this is only 1 USB connection, unlike the options below, and RCA cables are cheap to get the lengths I need to locate the cameras in various places.
Disadvantages are the cameras themselves. There is hardly any information on them, and it is entirely possible that the cameras are super low resolution. The DVR description leaves alot to be desired, and the RCA cameras would pretty much require wiring the power. I can do it, just more complication.
The 2nd best option I am looking at is this one:
x3 or x4 of one of the following:
http://cgi.ebay.com/6-LED-USB-Night-...3%3A3|294%3A50
This one being 'night vision' makes me a bit skeptical, but would certainly be an added bonus if it actually worked. Generally just low light works fine, since my headlights would be on anyway for those night runs.
http://cgi.ebay.com/10-0M-USB-WEBCAM...3%3A1|294%3A50
This one is simply the cheapest, and has the camera distilled down to it's smallest form, without the excess packaging.
http://cgi.ebay.com/USB-8-0M-LED-Web...3%3A1|294%3A50
I like this camera the best, simply due to the resolution, and the 'barrel' shape of the camera. The mounts that are shown would be discarded, cut off if needed. The 'lighting' switch on the cable might be useful, but there isn't much information about what that actually does though.
Advantages are with the knowledge of what I am buying. Those cameras are clearly detailed out, and any of them should work fine. Being USB, they would receive their power from the laptop (which has a car adapter), so wiring in power is not a concern.
Disadvantages are with not knowing if more than 1 input can be accepted by the software packages, and having to get 3 or 4 USB cables run to my laptop and plugged in. Yes, a Hub is an option, but hubs don't always function smoothly when there are simultaneous signals running through them, and this would have 3 or 4 essentially identical signals passing through simultaneously. May or may not work. The USB cable length is also a concern. I can get extensions, but this is also not ideal.
There are microphones with several of the camera options. I would probably disable at least all but 1. I would want the sound input to be from the engine bay or exhaust, which also might be cutting out the microphone portion and relocating it. A microphone on a camera on the front of the car generally gets alot of wind noise, and I want engine noise. Interior mic isn't an option. I know that no one is interested in listening to me talk or what music I listen to. I hate those videos that the owners feel the need to add music to cover up the other noises. I want my engine to do the music for me
Opinions, suggestions, comments? This is fairly new territory for me. I have experience with stationary CCTV in buildings, but nothing on a vehicle.
Last edited by RIWWP; 03-22-2009 at 01:06 PM.
03-23-2009, 08:47 AM
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I went ahead and ordered http://cgi.ebay.com/USB-8-0M-LED-Web...3%3A1|294%3A50 x2. Figured if 2 or more can't be used at the same time, then I only waste 1, rather than 3. Interesting to note the seller has 4,992 available.
General lack of responses tells me that this is new territory for others as well. I will keep this thread updated with results of tests and such.
General lack of responses tells me that this is new territory for others as well. I will keep this thread updated with results of tests and such.
03-23-2009, 10:06 AM
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Heh, I think that is a bit more than I need. The lack of a price and the "Add to quote" button makes my wallet quake in fear
Yeah, I agree with you though, 1 wide angle would work instead of 3 cameras across the front. I haven't seen any reasonable wide-angle cameras yet. If I find one, I would likely switch to it once I get my CarPC built. I am going to test this camera's video quality and storage method once I get it in, probably just by clipping it to the rear view mirror. If it handles the video well, then I will mount it and run the wiring. I got 2, so I could test to see if it can handle more than 1 video input without issue or not.
Delivery says 10-15 business days, which bothers me a bit, since if it is the 15 business days, then it will be too close to the run to get a 3rd/4th in time. (currently 5 weeks away). If it works and I can't get 1/2 more in before the run, I will likely mount them both slightly angling outward, so dead center is overlapped slightly by both cameras. Or else do just the 1 if it's angle is good enough, and mount the other on top of my steering column for a instrumentation view
Yeah, I agree with you though, 1 wide angle would work instead of 3 cameras across the front. I haven't seen any reasonable wide-angle cameras yet. If I find one, I would likely switch to it once I get my CarPC built. I am going to test this camera's video quality and storage method once I get it in, probably just by clipping it to the rear view mirror. If it handles the video well, then I will mount it and run the wiring. I got 2, so I could test to see if it can handle more than 1 video input without issue or not.
Delivery says 10-15 business days, which bothers me a bit, since if it is the 15 business days, then it will be too close to the run to get a 3rd/4th in time. (currently 5 weeks away). If it works and I can't get 1/2 more in before the run, I will likely mount them both slightly angling outward, so dead center is overlapped slightly by both cameras. Or else do just the 1 if it's angle is good enough, and mount the other on top of my steering column for a instrumentation view
03-23-2009, 06:11 PM
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A couple issues with all those systems I see. The multichannel system probably won't have the frame rate you want. It doesn't say it on there, but every cheap multichannel CC capture system I've seen usually has 30fps combined, not per channel. The second option seemed to only do 30fps at QVGA. The other issue you will probably run into with individual capture devices is getting them synced up. Sync probably isn't critical though if you only use one mic. The drawback of using mic's outside is wind noise. It'll most likely drown out any engine and road noise at any kind of speed. And of course there's the question of how weatherproof the cameras are.
03-24-2009, 09:11 AM
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Definitely valid points. If I end up with a mic, and I want to, then it will likely be mounted inside the engine bay somewhere to shield the mic from both wind noise and from heat. I am thinking I solve the weatherproofing problem by mounting them to the inside of a custom sealed acrylic 'box'. Acrylic is easy to work with, and easy to seal up. Can make one that barely fits around them, and then mounting that box to the location. There will be a faint loss in quality, but it should keep the camera out of dirt, debris, and moisture. Temperature would still be an issue, but not much I can do there.
The combined FPS incoming isn't something I had considered.
The combined FPS incoming isn't something I had considered.
03-25-2009, 08:11 AM
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The acrylic isn't a bad idea, especially for the front. There are inexpensive 'weatherproof' cameras on ebay, but I'd be a bit leary that they would stand up to rain and road water/debris driven in at 80+MPH. For your low mount you might want to make the lens replaceable so that if it gets damaged it's not a big loss. I think the simplest way would be to get a gasketed project box, cut a hole out of it and silicon some acrylic in. Not too hard to replace the acrylic, just an exacto knife and some more silicon. If you wanted to get fancy you could glue a camera lens screw filter adapter (49 mm or something) and be able to quickly screw in new filters (clear glass.)
03-29-2009, 11:13 PM
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Wow... Thats pretty wierd how you kinda just phased over the most helpful comment in here.. after reading this last week, i looked up the go pro heroes... for 200$ those are ****** bad ***! i even watched a CNET review of them... shoot, 600 bux and multiple angles that you take the discs out of the cameras and put in your computer to synch them up??? thats a really good product (no doubt i'll be buying one for when i go do stupid things on windy roads)
03-30-2009, 09:12 AM
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Wow... Thats pretty wierd how you kinda just phased over the most helpful comment in here.. after reading this last week, i looked up the go pro heroes... for 200$ those are ****** bad ***! i even watched a CNET review of them... shoot, 600 bux and multiple angles that you take the discs out of the cameras and put in your computer to synch them up??? thats a really good product (no doubt i'll be buying one for when i go do stupid things on windy roads)
03-31-2009, 11:23 AM
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Wow... Thats pretty wierd how you kinda just phased over the most helpful comment in here.. after reading this last week, i looked up the go pro heroes... for 200$ those are ****** bad ***! i even watched a CNET review of them... shoot, 600 bux and multiple angles that you take the discs out of the cameras and put in your computer to synch them up??? thats a really good product (no doubt i'll be buying one for when i go do stupid things on windy roads)
I actually have an expensive solution right now, that I don't have to pay a dime for. It belongs to my company, and my boss told me to "take it home, play with it, test it, get to know it" last Friday.
I am away on travel this week, but will install it in my 8 and test lenses, angles, and mounting points, and get some video up. I tested it on a co-workers car down here yesterday, and it was really smooth and clear wide-angle video just clipped to the sun visor. I'd post it, but I don't have time to edit it down. Right now it is ~1gb for 18 minutes of 640x480 30fps video. A bit big for YouTube.
04-06-2009, 01:40 AM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG2c27IF1qw
I suggest watching it without sound past the first few seconds. It seems YouTube converted any wind noise into pure static, that washes everything out. This was just a test for that mount location. works pretty good, might be the final location.
(Those 2 squares on the dash were the mounting points for my radar detector, stolen a few hours prior to this video... thread here: https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discussion-3/i-hate-thieves-170777/#post2953754 I actually realized it was missing watching this video playback)
I suggest watching it without sound past the first few seconds. It seems YouTube converted any wind noise into pure static, that washes everything out. This was just a test for that mount location. works pretty good, might be the final location.
(Those 2 squares on the dash were the mounting points for my radar detector, stolen a few hours prior to this video... thread here: https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discussion-3/i-hate-thieves-170777/#post2953754 I actually realized it was missing watching this video playback)
04-10-2009, 06:59 AM
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I didn't record sound for this clip, but another good quality shot. Odd that YouTube keeps adding that static along the bottom of the video. It isn't on the avi files on my hard drive. It also has tons of trouble in HQ for the first half second or so, so if you do HQ, bump the slider a few pixels.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjJRm7BVPt0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjJRm7BVPt0
05-19-2009, 11:12 PM
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How to Set Up Your Own On-Board RC Car Camera
[embed]QlPPQohcXrg[/embed]
Owner describes the on-board camera setup (homemade) then demonstrates. Video is sent to computer.
Are you a video enthusiast, always uploading your latest videos to sites like YouTube? Well, we want to show your stuff! Let us showcase your video for you on About.com.
Board Camera
Owner describes the on-board camera setup (homemade) then demonstrates. Video is sent to computer.
Are you a video enthusiast, always uploading your latest videos to sites like YouTube? Well, we want to show your stuff! Let us showcase your video for you on About.com.
Board Camera
05-29-2009, 03:03 AM
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Have you check out tachyon xc? $150. 2xAA lithium on a 16G card gives you 8 hours non-stop recording. Its not wide angle but I have had it for track days and bike trips, best 150 I have spent for onboard cam.
http://www.tachyoninc.com/main.html
http://www.tachyoninc.com/main.html
06-01-2009, 08:12 AM
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26 FPS is a rather odd choice, 24 or 25 would be better (film, PAL.) I'd rather have the quality than being able to have hours and hours on a card. I do a lot of digital photography, and going through gigs of photos to find the keepers is the worst part of the experience.
06-04-2009, 03:25 PM
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26 FPS is a rather odd choice, 24 or 25 would be better (film, PAL.) I'd rather have the quality than being able to have hours and hours on a card. I do a lot of digital photography, and going through gigs of photos to find the keepers is the worst part of the experience.
06-05-2009, 11:29 AM
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26 FPS is a little smoother on the eyes. What is really weird is that Gopro and ATC3k/2k are saying they have 30 FPS, which isnt even recognizable with the human eye. they repeat images to make it 30 FPS. Tachyon is the definitley the best deal in this adventure camera market.
The human eye can definitely discern more than 30 FPS.
Plus 30 FPS puts it in line with NTSC. 26 FPS will have judder whether played on NTSC, PAL or 90% of LCD's out there (60FPS.)
06-05-2009, 12:02 PM
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