Mawnee

At what RPM and/or load do the P2 actually come on?

-Meant P2s not secondaries

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

If the load calls for them.

On an NA motor, the RPM point is typically in the 6200 RPM range, but if you exceed 1.50 load before that, they'll kick in.
The secondaries wont open before 3200 RPM no matter what.

Mawnee

hmmm... My car is running crazy lean with my new MAF scale if I give it any gas below 4k RPM. I shouldn't have to scale my Primary injectors to get my MAf right....

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

have a look at this log - it shows the secondaries coming on at 3372 20%DC not sure what the load was
Edit -*this is the secondaries not the P2s

3213 RPM 0.2 "Hg 13.1:1 A/F 33% TPS 5.00V MAP IN 5.00V AFM IN 0.0% DC OUT 0.00ms 0% FUEL 0 IGN 0.0%
3233 RPM 0.1 PSI 13.1:1 A/F 34% TPS 5.00V MAP IN 5.00V AFM IN 0.0% DC OUT 0.00ms 0% FUEL 0 IGN 0.0%
3235 RPM 0.4 PSI 13.1:1 A/F 40% TPS 5.00V MAP IN 5.00V AFM IN 0.0% DC OUT 0.00ms 0% FUEL 0 IGN 0.0%
3244 RPM 0.9 PSI 13.1:1 A/F 49% TPS 5.00V MAP IN 5.00V AFM IN 0.0% DC OUT 0.00ms 0% FUEL 0 IGN 0.0%
3275 RPM 1.1 PSI 12.3:1 A/F 58% TPS 5.00V MAP IN 5.00V AFM IN 0.0% DC OUT 0.00ms 0% FUEL 0 IGN 0.0%
3295 RPM 1.5 PSI 12.3:1 A/F 66% TPS 5.00V MAP IN 5.00V AFM IN 0.0% DC OUT 0.00ms 0% FUEL 0 IGN 62.1%
3316 RPM 1.8 PSI 12.3:1 A/F 72% TPS 5.00V MAP IN 5.00V AFM IN 0.0% DC OUT 0.00ms 0% FUEL 0 IGN 62.1%
3333 RPM 1.9 PSI 12.3:1 A/F 84% TPS 5.00V MAP IN 5.00V AFM IN 0.0% DC OUT 0.00ms 0% FUEL 0 IGN 62.1%
3347 RPM 2.3 PSI 11.5:1 A/F 92% TPS 5.00V MAP IN 5.00V AFM IN 0.0% DC OUT 0.00ms 0% FUEL 0 IGN 62.1%
3357 RPM 2.5 PSI 11.5:1 A/F 95% TPS 5.00V MAP IN 5.00V AFM IN 0.0% DC OUT 0.00ms 0% FUEL 0 IGN 62.1%
3372 RPM 2.8 PSI 11.5:1 A/F 95% TPS 5.00V MAP IN 5.00V AFM IN 20.4% DC OUT 3.60ms 0% FUEL 0 IGN 62.1%
3413 RPM 3.2 PSI 11.5:1 A/F 93% TPS 5.00V MAP IN 5.00V AFM IN 21.0% DC OUT 3.68ms 0% FUEL 0 IGN 62.1%
3389 RPM 3.4 PSI 11.0:1 A/F 96% TPS 5.00V MAP IN 5.00V AFM IN 21.8% DC OUT 3.86ms 0% FUEL 0 IGN 62.1%
3445 RPM 3.7 PSI 11.0:1 A/F 97% TPS 5.00V MAP IN 5.00V AFM IN 22.7% DC OUT 3.95ms 0% FUEL 0 IGN 62.1%
3489 RPM 4.1 PSI 11.0:1 A/F 93% TPS 5.00V MAP IN 5.00V AFM IN 23.4% DC OUT 4.02ms 0% FUEL 0 IGN 62.1%
3478 RPM 4.3 PSI 11.0:1 A/F 93% TPS 5.00V MAP IN 5.00V AFM IN 23.5% DC OUT 4.06ms 0% FUEL 0 IGN 62.1%
3470 RPM 4.6 PSI 10.6:1 A/F 96% TPS 5.00V MAP IN 5.00V AFM IN 24.1% DC OUT 4.14ms 0% FUEL 0 IGN 62.1%
3547 RPM 4.8 PSI 10.6:1 A/F 94% TPS 5.00V MAP IN 5.00V AFM IN 25.1% DC OUT 4.24ms 0% FUEL 0 IGN 62.1%

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Neat log.
Typo, anyway. Meant to say 3200 RPM. I'll correct that.

All of the injector staging is load-based, not RPM-based.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

The injectors almost ALWAYS need some scaling - usually around 20 or so if they are OE injectors.

By "crazy lean", what do you mean?

Also, the AFRs below 4k should be leaner. I usually shoot for 12.5 - 13 down there, depending on load.

Mawnee

I'm seeing 15+ if it rolls over to any kind of positive pressure.

Ok, let me go ahead and downsize them then. Better safe than sorry =/

Mawnee

ok I've changed my P2s from 1130 to 1075 ~5% more fuel
And my secondaries from 476 to 456 ~4% more fuel

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

It could also be dependent on which flash you're working from

Mazda revised the fueling strategy along the way so if you're working off an old flash you could have something completely different than the last flash

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

The last time Mazda screwed with the staging of the secondaries and P2s was in 2007.

For the "hard-start/no-start" flash, they changed the hold on the primaries to address flooding and warm-start.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

Yes, not every PCM has those updates

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Perhaps, but everyone that is doing flash tuning is using the last update as their base file. Right?

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

No, that's only true for some tuning solutions ....

Mawnee

Ok I've gotten close. I've had to change my injector settings to P1-329(+11%), P2-900(from 1100), and Secondaries to 456(+4%)

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

So the secondaries kick in before the P2s?

Wow ...

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Well, yeah.
They're tied into the opening of the secondary air passages, which are fixed to an RPM range.
The P2s are load-staged, but they have a minimum RPM floor.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

which is why slightly upgrading the P1s is a good idea if yoyu have a fast spooling turbo ......
I saw as much as 90% on the p1s before I switched to 380s

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

You saw 90% duty cycle before 3500 RPM?
Do you realize how much air that is?

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

Well yeah, but notice how people always list them as P1-P2-Sec rather than P1-Sec-P2

wow

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, I'm not totally sure its "always", but people do seem to get confused by the "primary" part of the nomenclature, which only has to do with which intake runner the injector is mounted in.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Yes

No
It's enough to bring the 290cc P1s to 90% duty cycle just before the next stage kicks in .
Here is a log of the P1s - not quite 90% but very close
Injectors were 290/380/480 and boost reached 10psi by around 3500rpm

Mawnee

*raises hand*
I dont think I'll ever get used to the staged injectors and intake on this car. I know to some of you guys its second nature, but for me I have to think about it every time I look at it.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

A lot of people seem to have issues when using extra large P2s .
I don't fully understand the reasons but it does seem to be a common theme to me. Scaling errors , Latency differences too much flow difference between large and small making staging an issue

Tuning with smaller OEM mazda injectors seems to be relatively easy by comparison .

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

I haven't seen any issues with the P2s, no matter how large.
Its oversized secondaries and/or P1s that have problems.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

/\ it's just an observation - perhaps more related to operator errors than any actual issue.