Stage 1 funkyness and info for all.
03-03-2004, 04:05 PM
#101
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They have to look at your car anyway to handle the air bag recall.... A little more begging in order?? However, if my service manager is right, we may be wasting all our 'the smart guys on the forum said' credits.
Tom
Tom
03-03-2004, 04:16 PM
#102
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Can't one "create" a CEL by disconnecting one of the O2 sensors (the one by the cat) and then take it in to have them reflash?
Perhaps not the most ethical solution, but them not spending 10 minutes to reflash because they don't want to is BS as well, especially if they are doing other work (TSB) on the car anyway.
Perhaps not the most ethical solution, but them not spending 10 minutes to reflash because they don't want to is BS as well, especially if they are doing other work (TSB) on the car anyway.
03-03-2004, 04:16 PM
#103
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CZ actually looked at the fuel maps after his PCM was re-flashed and saw the different fuel maps. I trust CZ to be honest about his findings. Something else to keep in mind. It is costing him to update all the Stage 1 units out there and I am sure that if it didn't need to be done CZ wouldn't just do all this work for nothing.
03-03-2004, 11:01 PM
#106
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We think the "L" flash was developed in Japan and is intended for world wide use. I'm not surprised some dealers can't/will not do it. Technical competancy has not been a common trait with car dealers. If it were me, it would be a "no brainer" to do the latest flash, especially if the customer wanted it. It does take about 15 min. so the dealer would want to charge Mazda for that time. Perhaps it's Mazda who doesn't want to spend the money unless there is an obvious problem.
03-04-2004, 06:42 AM
#107
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Dealers cannot bill a warranty claim without a problem code that has been approved by the manufacturer for that procedure. For a reflash, the manufacturer can approve a blanket upgrade for anyone who asks (this has happened with some Hondas) or limit the procedure to certain problem codes. Sounds like Mazda has not authorized warranty claims for the L reflash without specific problem codes.
The dealer could go ahead and do it for "good will" and eat the labor cost, but they usually want to get something for their time.
The dealer could go ahead and do it for "good will" and eat the labor cost, but they usually want to get something for their time.
03-04-2004, 12:33 PM
#108
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Well i am sure the threat of a complaint or bad performance report would give the dealer plenty of good will.
Remeber what you paid for or at least what was advertised.
Remeber what you paid for or at least what was advertised.
03-04-2004, 01:57 PM
#109
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Originally posted by TM45
Dealers cannot bill a warranty claim without a problem code that has been approved by the manufacturer for that procedure. For a reflash, the manufacturer can approve a blanket upgrade for anyone who asks (this has happened with some Hondas) or limit the procedure to certain problem codes. Sounds like Mazda has not authorized warranty claims for the L reflash without specific problem codes.
The dealer could go ahead and do it for "good will" and eat the labor cost, but they usually want to get something for their time.
Dealers cannot bill a warranty claim without a problem code that has been approved by the manufacturer for that procedure. For a reflash, the manufacturer can approve a blanket upgrade for anyone who asks (this has happened with some Hondas) or limit the procedure to certain problem codes. Sounds like Mazda has not authorized warranty claims for the L reflash without specific problem codes.
The dealer could go ahead and do it for "good will" and eat the labor cost, but they usually want to get something for their time.
Maybe this was posted before, but is there a specific TSB that this reflash is described in?
03-04-2004, 03:11 PM
#110
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Originally posted by vix8
Maybe this was posted before, but is there a specific TSB that this reflash is described in?
Maybe this was posted before, but is there a specific TSB that this reflash is described in?
http://www.finishlineperformance.com...01-024-03.html
You can find all service bulletins at Rosenthal Mazda's site.
http://www.finishlineperformance.com...ocs/index.html
03-04-2004, 04:23 PM
#111
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I checked today and my dealer reports that the ECU reflash can be authorized for some CEL problem codes and one other seemingly unrelated problem code (something to do with oil pressure.) If they agree to do it without these codes, the dealer is likely just eating the cost.
An unwritten alternative is that many things can be authorized by the manufacturer for warranty compensation if the customer raises enough hell under the "good will" provision.
An unwritten alternative is that many things can be authorized by the manufacturer for warranty compensation if the customer raises enough hell under the "good will" provision.
03-04-2004, 10:28 PM
#112
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I think my strategy is going to insist that they give me the latest reflash when I go in to have the two recall items installed. According to the service guy I spoke with, they always check to make sure the latest is installed whenever a car is in for service.
Not sure whether to beleive him or not, but I'll be checking to make sure the latest IS installed before I leave the dealership!
Not sure whether to beleive him or not, but I'll be checking to make sure the latest IS installed before I leave the dealership!
03-06-2004, 02:10 AM
#113
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NONE of you have the right to go into a dealer and DEMAND a reflash!
A reflash is often the method manufacturers use to address customer concerns, in other words, to make customers HAPPIER. And to IMPROVE THE PRODUCT.
I do not like the vibes I feel in this thread from some people who think they should demand a flash. I think this is a negative attitude towards a positive move by Mazda.
If you have a good relationship with your dealer and he thinks your car would 'benefit' from the software in the TSB then he will install it for you. Don't make waves over something that is a 'nice to have', not a 'need to have'.
Oh, by the way. Every time a dealer hooks your car up to a WDS it checks to see if there are any calibration updates, so you will all probably get this calibration in the future anyway...
A reflash is often the method manufacturers use to address customer concerns, in other words, to make customers HAPPIER. And to IMPROVE THE PRODUCT.
I do not like the vibes I feel in this thread from some people who think they should demand a flash. I think this is a negative attitude towards a positive move by Mazda.
If you have a good relationship with your dealer and he thinks your car would 'benefit' from the software in the TSB then he will install it for you. Don't make waves over something that is a 'nice to have', not a 'need to have'.
Oh, by the way. Every time a dealer hooks your car up to a WDS it checks to see if there are any calibration updates, so you will all probably get this calibration in the future anyway...
03-06-2004, 12:40 PM
#114
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Originally posted by Mr M
NONE of you have the right to go into a dealer and DEMAND a reflash!
A reflash is often the method manufacturers use to address customer concerns, in other words, to make customers HAPPIER. And to IMPROVE THE PRODUCT.
I do not like the vibes I feel in this thread from some people who think they should demand a flash. I think this is a negative attitude towards a positive move by Mazda.
If you have a good relationship with your dealer and he thinks your car would 'benefit' from the software in the TSB then he will install it for you. Don't make waves over something that is a 'nice to have', not a 'need to have'.
Oh, by the way. Every time a dealer hooks your car up to a WDS it checks to see if there are any calibration updates, so you will all probably get this calibration in the future anyway...
NONE of you have the right to go into a dealer and DEMAND a reflash!
A reflash is often the method manufacturers use to address customer concerns, in other words, to make customers HAPPIER. And to IMPROVE THE PRODUCT.
I do not like the vibes I feel in this thread from some people who think they should demand a flash. I think this is a negative attitude towards a positive move by Mazda.
If you have a good relationship with your dealer and he thinks your car would 'benefit' from the software in the TSB then he will install it for you. Don't make waves over something that is a 'nice to have', not a 'need to have'.
Oh, by the way. Every time a dealer hooks your car up to a WDS it checks to see if there are any calibration updates, so you will all probably get this calibration in the future anyway...
03-06-2004, 09:04 PM
#115
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Mr M...
It would seem that dealers don't reflash every time they hook up. If they did, we wouldn't have guys coming back from dealers with old rev levels. As to demanding, certainly we can demand! A 2800# car getting under 15 mpg (never mind EPA stated estimates) is something needing a bit of demanding. In the short history of the RX8, we have seen dealers claiming they don't know about low mpg, claiming the cars don't flood, that the car has 250, no 247, no 238 hp etc. Give me a break about not demanding and bad vibes from folks on this forum.
Tom
It would seem that dealers don't reflash every time they hook up. If they did, we wouldn't have guys coming back from dealers with old rev levels. As to demanding, certainly we can demand! A 2800# car getting under 15 mpg (never mind EPA stated estimates) is something needing a bit of demanding. In the short history of the RX8, we have seen dealers claiming they don't know about low mpg, claiming the cars don't flood, that the car has 250, no 247, no 238 hp etc. Give me a break about not demanding and bad vibes from folks on this forum.
Tom
03-06-2004, 09:14 PM
#116
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Mr. M
I you buy a computer product and a bug is found in the software, do you think you can demand a Fix. Or do you believe it is just something you should live with?
All we are talking about with a ECU re-flash is a software update. I haven't had mine done yet (got an appt. on the 13th) but this should take less the 20 min. and not require any parts. So the only expense for the dealer is time.
I will demand the flash when I take mine in for the Air bag recall.
I you buy a computer product and a bug is found in the software, do you think you can demand a Fix. Or do you believe it is just something you should live with?
All we are talking about with a ECU re-flash is a software update. I haven't had mine done yet (got an appt. on the 13th) but this should take less the 20 min. and not require any parts. So the only expense for the dealer is time.
I will demand the flash when I take mine in for the Air bag recall.
03-06-2004, 09:20 PM
#117
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Since when did McDonalds start putting potatoes in their fries. I thought that New Jersey Chemistry Labs were the home of McDonalds fries...
Anyway I agree that if there is a problem with the car that a reflash has been shown to solve, like bad fuel economy, then I believe you have a right to have that reflash from your dealer. It even mentions this in the 9th Amendment in the US
Anyway I agree that if there is a problem with the car that a reflash has been shown to solve, like bad fuel economy, then I believe you have a right to have that reflash from your dealer. It even mentions this in the 9th Amendment in the US
03-07-2004, 12:26 AM
#118
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Actually McDonald's fries are made of rice. And it looks like everyone has taken the typing out of my hands, so to speak. No need to step on the soap box today.
03-07-2004, 06:24 AM
#119
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Sure, you have a right to any improvements, I just don't think you should go in hissing and roaring and destroy relations with your dealer. Ask nicely, that is what I am saying.
These updates are usually loaded into the WDS (diagnostic tool) using a CD, but Mazda probably decided they didn't want to wait for that, and issued the TSB early. I think it is very likely that every dealer will have the new software in their WDS machine within a few months, so that the minute they hook it up they will know to update your PCM to the new version. Probably....maybe...
These updates are usually loaded into the WDS (diagnostic tool) using a CD, but Mazda probably decided they didn't want to wait for that, and issued the TSB early. I think it is very likely that every dealer will have the new software in their WDS machine within a few months, so that the minute they hook it up they will know to update your PCM to the new version. Probably....maybe...
03-07-2004, 11:22 AM
#120
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From what we've seen at the dealer, the flash is actually kept at one place (back east somewhere at Ford, we think). The dealer hooks up his networked computer and downloads the flash directly into your car. It takes about 15 min. so it's probably dialup.
I suppose they do it this way to ensure all dealers have the same info/build and for security.
I suppose they do it this way to ensure all dealers have the same info/build and for security.
03-09-2004, 12:10 PM
#124
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Yah, or take it out to be sure it isn't discovered. I understand it takes ~ 15 minutes. It's purely a matter of choice, shebam is correct, but who knows what may happen...
