Lock & Load

Any other thoughts re above from other forum member also appreciated .

emack

.................make that the same question from a 3rd Aussie. ie will Stage 1 work on Oz spec cars?!

Thanks.

tommy12g

When are these units coming out?

Thanks

canzoomer

The mixture he measured was in the tailpipe, AFTER the cat.
Not exactly a representative reading.

We measured in the exhaust BEFORE the cat, where you get correct readings.

As for shipping:
A few have gone out.
End of this week, assuming no issues reported, we start shipping for real.

Then I put up final data, dyno sheets, and the website goes online.

emack

Thank you can zoomer..........would a mechanically retarded individual like me be able to install the stage 1?!

canzoomer

I think so. It is pretty simple.

A few bolts to undo and later re-do, a few plastic clips, and so on.

Nothing very technical or physiacally or mentally strainful.

Can you hook up a stereo?

It is less complicated than that..

emack

I'll take one............how do I go about it?

canzoomer

Send me an email, please:

maurice@harddata.com

Thanks emack!

compaddict

Maurice,

Are you answering your emails?

Vince

canzoomer

Certainly.

Did you send me one??

compaddict

Four I think..

I resent the last one.

Look under
Vince Russell
Auburn, CA

Thanks,

Vince

rx8 - smooth!

Canzoomer,

First of all congratulations on putting in so much time & effort into the development of your piggyback unit.

I am very interested in purchasing one but I am by nature a little cautious.

I notice that you blew an engine in your car. Do you consider that there is any possibility that this may have been caused due to the higher internal temperatures generated by leaning out the A/F ratio?

I understand that by purchasing this unit we will be compromising the life of our cats and I am happy to accept that but I worry that we also be doing the same thing to the engine.

I am NOT trying to be negative about this but just voicing an objection that is stopping me sending an order to you. I look forward to your reply.

VelocityRedRX8

Man, I agree!

SunDiver

i) Would these modifications work on UK RX-8s?

Thanks in advance...

se3pmaniac

From your info, I am really worried about the effect of your device on the engine. I don't know what kind of background you have on tuning rotary but tuning the rotary to run 13.2 a/f ratio under full throttle is too lean. You are running into the risk of detonating the engine. Advancing the timing will increase the chance even more. What you are doing is very risky.

Also from your post, it does not seem like you know much about rotary engine. A failed oil metering pump for oil injection system will not kill the side seals. Oil injection system's main purpose is to lubricate the apex seals. If it fails, the apex seals will wear out slowly and the enigne will run weaker and weaker. A sudden death of engine is a sign of blown apex seal. It has nothing to do with side seals.

You might want to run more testing on your car before you offer this to public. People will be very mad if they start to blow motors. Rotary engine can't withstand detonation. This is no piston motor. A sudden lean condition will blow the apex seal. You always need some kind of safety margin when tuning the rotary engine especially for street use. A tank of bad pump gas can blow the motor. Ask any people who have been around rotary for sometime will tell you the same thing.

pp13bnos

Uhhh....on a n/a engine, 13.2 is not to lean. My N/A 90 made peak power running a 14.25 a/f ratio. That was 167rwhp on a Mustang, or around 180ish on a dyno jet. I traded the car in with almost 30k miles on the engine/tune for my FE. The car still ran great.

CJ

RXhusker

YOU might want to read all of the threads and all of the replys on this topic before you start making comments. The issues of rotary tuning knowledge, proper a/f ratios, etc, etc, have all been discussed -- the only thing we are waiting for is an actual dyno.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

I love it when someone is new to a forum, joins a thread, skims it and then posts a reply without knowing all the details.

Its not that the points made are irrelevant but, rather, that they have already been addressed but the poster is too lazy to read the thread before opining on the subject.

Q121825

Question for Canzoomer: When to install the mod? If I purchase an 8 in the spring, should I break the engine in using the unaltered system then install the mod? I dug through the other threads and didn't see this question (though I may have missed it).

Omicron

You should be able to install it anytime... just follow the normal break in period, and baby the engine for the first (IMO) 1000 miles or so.

Of course, if you're babying it, you won't feel the gains of the ECU piggyback..

Actually, if I were you I would break the engine in stock, THEN install the new ECU piggyback after break in, simply because in that first 1000 miles you'll get a good feel for how your '8 runs - and adding the extra 25 WHP later on will make it feel like you strapped a rocket to it! :D

-=Zeqs=-

California...Running leaded fuels, removing catalytic convertor = $10,000 fine and punishable by time in prison. Keep that in mind as well.

-=Zeqs=-

If you build it...I will come...hell, even if you charged a little more for the AT kit...650 as opposed to 500 for the M/T, I'd still be interested, so long as it is as simple to install as the M/T version is.

But hey, I also understand that in the world of business, it's best to sell what you can sell quickly and easily so long as the demand is there. However...should you ever get the opportunity to come up with an A/T version in the next year or so to come...I'll be waiting :D

mikeb

what he said ^^^^^

canzoomer

No, I really do not think so.
For example I ran about 650km completely stock just before the engine went.
Also, it did not "blow".
It threw a check engine light, then stumblred and deteriorated.
Mazda told me that the failure was due to an oil injection fault.
I think that ANY increase in power output will diminish engine (and drivetrain) life to *some* degree.
However it is a matter of degree.
An RX-8 running our Stage1 kit puts out no more power than a stock RX-8 in Japan.
Mazda obviously feel that this is OK.

canzoomer

Actually this is fairly rich.
Tuners who have done RX-7's for years are running as lean as 14:1 on lots of rotaries.
Further, I am told by tuners over the pond in Japan that the stock WOT condition at 7200rpm is about 13.6-13.7:1 ratio.
We also looked at exhaust gas temperatures.
These are in line with what one should see as well.
If there is ANY place to be concerned about heat, it is the spark plugs and coil packs.
Simply put, in a rotary they get a heavier duty cycle than in a piston engine vehicle. Every plug fires what is effectively 3 cylinders, and the plugs are not getting a charge of cold air on an intake cycle, like a 4 stroke.
This is similar to what you see in a 2 stroke engine.
I saw it when we ran power WAY up for a few tests one day, with leaner fuel mix and a lot more ignition advance. We made a LOT more than 25HP gain, and, in fact peaked over 50HP higher.
But, at the end of that day, after a lot of runs on the dynoe, the coil packs started to melt.
They are right on top of the plugs, and get a lot of heat transfer.

Of course it did not help that we were sitting still in the shop, under repeated heavy load, with no air flow.


I tend to agree with you that a oil injection failure is unlikely.
Bearing failure is much more likely.
The engine was comprssion tested after the failure, with no reduction in compression loss, so seal failure is NOT the problem.
It showed all the signs of seizing. Whether that was a bearing failure, as I believe, or an oil injection failure, as Mazda said, we can not tell without stripping down the engine.
.A friend of mine who rebuilds and modifies rotary engines tells me that he feels it is likely a bearing failure as well.

I do not exactly KNOW what killed my engine. We did not have a chance to tear it down and find out.

That diagnosis is what Mazda Canada told me.

Quote:

You might want to run more testing on your car before you offer this to public. People will be very mad if they start to blow motors. Rotary engine can't withstand detonation. This is no piston motor. A sudden lean condition will blow the apex seal. You always need some kind of safety margin when tuning the rotary engine especially for street use. A tank of bad pump gas can blow the motor. Ask any people who have been around rotary for sometime will tell you the same thing.

I am VERY confident that we are not even getting CLOSE to detnation. Under tests where we made twice as much power gain as we are selling, we saw NO signs of detonation.
And that was at 3,000 foot altitude.

But I appreciate your concerns.