Oil Metering Pump Tuning with Interceptor-X/Microtech
09-05-2009, 02:54 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Oil Metering Pump Tuning with Interceptor-X/Microtech
I'm taking under the assumption that the oil metering pump is still controlled by the stock computer with the Interceptor-X/Microtech. If so is there anyway to increase the oil metering pump voltage then?
I'm wondering because I would think a little more oil would be required with a turbo engine then the stock N/A. Anyone have any ideas?
thewird
I'm wondering because I would think a little more oil would be required with a turbo engine then the stock N/A. Anyone have any ideas?
thewird
09-05-2009, 03:09 PM
#3
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Well premixing is fine for someone that treats their car as a summer/weekend warrior but for someone that wants their car to run like a normal car all season without carrying cases of premix around that really isn't an option. Especially for the rx8 which requires more frequent fillups. Or at least its annoying as hell for someone who doesn't treat their car as something more then a car.
A little info, this is not my car and is a customers car I am tuning. I do own an RX-7 and the PowerFC ECU has a function to bump up the OEM oil metering pump voltage by temperature. I only dab a bit of premix when I go to the track but otherwise its stock oil metering. This works well as the housings dont show any sign of excessive where when I open the engine up. I drive the car often and take it to the track often as well (26,000 km so far this year with over 10 track days).
I would just rather not tell the customer, "you installed a turbo so now you have to start premixing because we're unsure if your engine will wear quicker then normal".
thewird
A little info, this is not my car and is a customers car I am tuning. I do own an RX-7 and the PowerFC ECU has a function to bump up the OEM oil metering pump voltage by temperature. I only dab a bit of premix when I go to the track but otherwise its stock oil metering. This works well as the housings dont show any sign of excessive where when I open the engine up. I drive the car often and take it to the track often as well (26,000 km so far this year with over 10 track days).
I would just rather not tell the customer, "you installed a turbo so now you have to start premixing because we're unsure if your engine will wear quicker then normal".
thewird
Last edited by thewird; 09-05-2009 at 03:31 PM.
09-05-2009, 03:26 PM
#7
Well premixing is fine for someone that treats their car as a summer/weekend warrior but for someone that wants their car to run like a normal car all season without carrying cases of premix around that really isn't an option. Especially for the rx8 which requires more frequent fillups.
A little info, this is not my car and is a customers car I am tuning. I do own an RX-7 and the PowerFC ECU has a function to bump up the OEM oil metering pump voltage by temperature. I only dab a bit of premix when I go to the track but otherwise its stock oil metering. This works well as the housings dont show any sign of excessive where when I open the engine up. I drive the car often and take it to the track often as well (26,000 km so far this year with over 10 track days).
I would just rather not tell the customer, "you installed a turbo so now you have to start premixing because we're unsure if your engine will wear quicker then normal".
thewird
A little info, this is not my car and is a customers car I am tuning. I do own an RX-7 and the PowerFC ECU has a function to bump up the OEM oil metering pump voltage by temperature. I only dab a bit of premix when I go to the track but otherwise its stock oil metering. This works well as the housings dont show any sign of excessive where when I open the engine up. I drive the car often and take it to the track often as well (26,000 km so far this year with over 10 track days).
I would just rather not tell the customer, "you installed a turbo so now you have to start premixing because we're unsure if your engine will wear quicker then normal".
thewird
The engine has 10k miles on it with the turbo kit but those miles were heavy spirited driving, autocrossing, and just flat out having fun with it.
This kit has been on my car for over 2 years now without major issue.
09-05-2009, 03:38 PM
#8
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Thread Starter
Use both the AP to bump the oil metering and the INTX to maintain the other variables, currently I don't premix and have a larger turbo and have yet to see a need for premix.
The engine has 10k miles on it with the turbo kit but those miles were heavy spirited driving, autocrossing, and just flat out having fun with it.
This kit has been on my car for over 2 years now without major issue.
The engine has 10k miles on it with the turbo kit but those miles were heavy spirited driving, autocrossing, and just flat out having fun with it.
This kit has been on my car for over 2 years now without major issue.
The only reason I even add premix at the track is because the 3mm ceramic apex seals should be more agressive on the housings as they don't wear. So I add a little extra oil for extra insurance when I'm beating the car hard at the track. If I was using stock type seals I wouldn't even bother.
thewird
09-05-2009, 05:18 PM
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Thread Starter
That is not what the seller of the of the turbo kit (Esmeril Racing) thinks. He says the accessport is junk for a high boost RX-8 and would likely lead to motor blowing.
Also, using a MAP over a MAF is preferred in a turbo car for accurate tuning. So I sort of understand where he is coming from.
thewird
Also, using a MAP over a MAF is preferred in a turbo car for accurate tuning. So I sort of understand where he is coming from.
thewird
09-05-2009, 08:19 PM
#12
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Thread Starter
I'm aiming for 12 as I honestly don't trust the RX-8 seals with high compression rotors to take the abuse of what I normally tune say an FD to which is 16-17 PSi. I understand it needs less timing and a touch more fuel and will be testing timing on the dyno once I get the car running mint tuned on the street.
My starting timing map is pretty conservative to begin with, as I basically took the timing I run at 15-16 PSi (on a streetported FD motor) and put it at 10 PSi and filled the timing around that. More or less anyway.
If the owner later comes to me asking for more after a month or so of driving, I will tune it to 15-16 but he has to understand how on the edge it is for his stock motor. We do have Sunoco 94 octane available locally everywhere so thats kindof a plus though. If he gets some sort of injection, I would feel a lot more comfortable though.
thewird
My starting timing map is pretty conservative to begin with, as I basically took the timing I run at 15-16 PSi (on a streetported FD motor) and put it at 10 PSi and filled the timing around that. More or less anyway.
If the owner later comes to me asking for more after a month or so of driving, I will tune it to 15-16 but he has to understand how on the edge it is for his stock motor. We do have Sunoco 94 octane available locally everywhere so thats kindof a plus though. If he gets some sort of injection, I would feel a lot more comfortable though.
thewird
09-07-2009, 01:10 PM
#13
That is not what the seller of the of the turbo kit (Esmeril Racing) thinks. He says the accessport is junk for a high boost RX-8 and would likely lead to motor blowing.
Also, using a MAP over a MAF is preferred in a turbo car for accurate tuning. So I sort of understand where he is coming from.
thewird
Also, using a MAP over a MAF is preferred in a turbo car for accurate tuning. So I sort of understand where he is coming from.
thewird
I'm aiming for 12 as I honestly don't trust the RX-8 seals with high compression rotors to take the abuse of what I normally tune say an FD to which is 16-17 PSi. I understand it needs less timing and a touch more fuel and will be testing timing on the dyno once I get the car running mint tuned on the street.
My starting timing map is pretty conservative to begin with, as I basically took the timing I run at 15-16 PSi (on a streetported FD motor) and put it at 10 PSi and filled the timing around that. More or less anyway.
If the owner later comes to me asking for more after a month or so of driving, I will tune it to 15-16 but he has to understand how on the edge it is for his stock motor. We do have Sunoco 94 octane available locally everywhere so thats kindof a plus though. If he gets some sort of injection, I would feel a lot more comfortable though.
thewird
My starting timing map is pretty conservative to begin with, as I basically took the timing I run at 15-16 PSi (on a streetported FD motor) and put it at 10 PSi and filled the timing around that. More or less anyway.
If the owner later comes to me asking for more after a month or so of driving, I will tune it to 15-16 but he has to understand how on the edge it is for his stock motor. We do have Sunoco 94 octane available locally everywhere so thats kindof a plus though. If he gets some sort of injection, I would feel a lot more comfortable though.
thewird
09-07-2009, 01:16 PM
#14
If he has an AP he does not need the InterX. Waste of money. The AP will do everything needed related to tuning and engine management. Including the OMP output. One package and simple.
CLICK
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Why are you in this conversation you don't have a boosted RX-8, there is a difference in principles and applied knowledge versus real world experiences and results. Not to mention your recommendations is actually in rather poor judgment without supporting claim.
I think thewird is trying to get safe, reliable tune with a good EMS, the AP just can't do it with the setup such as the esmeril kit.
09-07-2009, 01:21 PM
#15
That is not what the seller of the of the turbo kit (Esmeril Racing) thinks. He says the accessport is junk for a high boost RX-8 and would likely lead to motor blowing.
Also, using a MAP over a MAF is preferred in a turbo car for accurate tuning. So I sort of understand where he is coming from.
thewird
Also, using a MAP over a MAF is preferred in a turbo car for accurate tuning. So I sort of understand where he is coming from.
thewird
I don't completely agree. The MAF tuning vs MAP tuning is undebatable (sp?). Both systems have got their pros and cons like everything in life, our MAF has got some scaling limits though but i don't think that those will be reached with the airflow you're going to see.
The real junk piece should be the microtech computer inside the interceptor-x in case, i'd rather rely on a motec or a haltec for that same purpose. 2 different worlds imho.
The problem is that MAF tuning requires an accurate sensor position, be it blow or draw through you need a straight tube of the correct lenght\angle capable to feed the MAF with straight airflow. Something the esmeril kit isn't famous for and the reason why (i think ) it adopted the int-x (the only cheap alternative to serious stand-alones).
Giorgio
09-07-2009, 01:25 PM
#17
I don't completely agree. The MAF tuning vs MAP tuning is undebatable (sp?). Both systems have got their pros and cons like everything in life, our MAF has got some scaling limits though but i don't think that those will be reached with the airflow you're going to see.
The real junk piece should be the microtech computer inside the interceptor-x in case, i'd rather rely on a motec or a haltec for that same purpose. 2 different worlds imho.
The problem is that MAF tuning requires an accurate sensor position, be it blow or draw through you need a straight tube of the correct lenght\angle capable to feed the MAF with straight airflow. Something the esmeril kit isn't famous for and the reason why (i think ) it adopted the int-x (the only cheap alternative to serious stand-alones).
Giorgio
The real junk piece should be the microtech computer inside the interceptor-x in case, i'd rather rely on a motec or a haltec for that same purpose. 2 different worlds imho.
The problem is that MAF tuning requires an accurate sensor position, be it blow or draw through you need a straight tube of the correct lenght\angle capable to feed the MAF with straight airflow. Something the esmeril kit isn't famous for and the reason why (i think ) it adopted the int-x (the only cheap alternative to serious stand-alones).
Giorgio
09-07-2009, 01:48 PM
#18
I am quite certain that if Chris really WANTED the Esmeril kit to work with the Cobb AP that Jeff could help him be successful with it. All this bullshit is never a matter of objective logic, anyway. It is largely one of a given tuner's preference.
09-07-2009, 02:14 PM
#19
Selfless plug for MM...lol
Why are you in this conversation you don't have a boosted RX-8, there is a difference in principles and applied knowledge versus real world experiences and results. Not to mention your recommendations is actually in rather poor judgment without supporting claim.
Why are you in this conversation you don't have a boosted RX-8, there is a difference in principles and applied knowledge versus real world experiences and results. Not to mention your recommendations is actually in rather poor judgment without supporting claim.
What's the matter Brice? Having a bad day?
And why are you in this conversation? You know nothing about tuning.
Which is evident by the last Turbo Fluid installed on one of your customers cars?
Oh look your selling the Turbo parts for the customer.
LINK
Oh look supporting claim.
Here is an Accessport customer with the MM Turbo Upgrade and pushing lot's of reliable power and torque. selfless plug for Chickenwafer.
330rwhp and 326ft-lbs of torque @ 13.5psi!!
Tuned with an AccessPort.
LINK
Now go butter someones buns Brice and sell another turbo kit. You pusillanimous twit.
Last edited by Easy_E1; 09-07-2009 at 02:56 PM.
09-07-2009, 02:20 PM
#21
You Dumbass!!!
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Easy not all of his turbos have blown.
You forgot 05rex8 who has Fluids Greddy Turbo Upgrade...
then again, he didn't even make 300HP with it, not even close.
Heck, in this thread he states he's already thinking about changing it and going with a different (better) upgraded turbo.
Guess Brice knows nothing about turbo's either
You forgot 05rex8 who has Fluids Greddy Turbo Upgrade...
then again, he didn't even make 300HP with it, not even close.
Heck, in this thread he states he's already thinking about changing it and going with a different (better) upgraded turbo.
Guess Brice knows nothing about turbo's either
Last edited by Symbioticgenius; 09-07-2009 at 02:23 PM.
09-07-2009, 03:14 PM
#22
Selfless plug for MM,, Not at all. He pay's me rather well.
What's the matter Brice? Having a bad day?
And why are you in this conversation? You know nothing about tuning.
Which is evident by the last Turbo Fluid installed on one of your customers cars?
Oh look your selling the Turbo parts for the customer.
LINK
Oh look supporting claim.
Here is an Accessport customer with the MM Turbo Upgrade and pushing lot's of reliable power and torque. selfless plug for Chickenwafer.
330rwhp and 326ft-lbs of torque @ 13.5psi!!
Tuned with an AccessPort.
LINK
Now go butter someones buns Brice and sell another turbo kit. You pusillanimous twit.
What's the matter Brice? Having a bad day?
And why are you in this conversation? You know nothing about tuning.
Which is evident by the last Turbo Fluid installed on one of your customers cars?
Oh look your selling the Turbo parts for the customer.
LINK
Oh look supporting claim.
Here is an Accessport customer with the MM Turbo Upgrade and pushing lot's of reliable power and torque. selfless plug for Chickenwafer.
330rwhp and 326ft-lbs of torque @ 13.5psi!!
Tuned with an AccessPort.
LINK
Now go butter someones buns Brice and sell another turbo kit. You pusillanimous twit.
The sad thing is a week before he had the installation completed the car was at Mazda for engine diagnosis....
But you already know the whole back story you schmuck.
09-07-2009, 03:16 PM
#23
Easy not all of his turbos have blown.
You forgot 05rex8 who has Fluids Greddy Turbo Upgrade...
then again, he didn't even make 300HP with it, not even close.
Heck, in this thread he states he's already thinking about changing it and going with a different (better) upgraded turbo.
Guess Brice knows nothing about turbo's either
You forgot 05rex8 who has Fluids Greddy Turbo Upgrade...
then again, he didn't even make 300HP with it, not even close.
Heck, in this thread he states he's already thinking about changing it and going with a different (better) upgraded turbo.
Guess Brice knows nothing about turbo's either
And by the way none of our turbos have blown.
09-07-2009, 03:38 PM
#24
I'm taking under the assumption that the oil metering pump is still controlled by the stock computer with the Interceptor-X/Microtech. If so is there anyway to increase the oil metering pump voltage then?
I'm wondering because I would think a little more oil would be required with a turbo engine then the stock N/A. Anyone have any ideas?
thewird
I'm wondering because I would think a little more oil would be required with a turbo engine then the stock N/A. Anyone have any ideas?
thewird
09-07-2009, 03:47 PM
#25
Easy not all of his turbos have blown.
You forgot 05rex8 who has Fluids Greddy Turbo Upgrade...
then again, he didn't even make 300HP with it, not even close.
Heck, in this thread he states he's already thinking about changing it and going with a different (better) upgraded turbo.
Guess Brice knows nothing about turbo's either
You forgot 05rex8 who has Fluids Greddy Turbo Upgrade...
then again, he didn't even make 300HP with it, not even close.
Heck, in this thread he states he's already thinking about changing it and going with a different (better) upgraded turbo.
Guess Brice knows nothing about turbo's either
First of all, 284rwhp is not that far from 300rwhp.
Also, if you keep reading that thread you linked, Brettus gave me a suggestion in order to work the kinks out of my current setup. This was something I over looked and is not Brice's fault. So I apologize if it looked like I felt I got ripped off. I probably should not have worded things that way to begin with, just some frustration coming thru in my post. I've had so many headaches with this car in the past year because of FI. In fact I have edited that post, as it was not accurate.
The greddy actuator is garbage for an upgraded turbo. Plain and simple. The upgraded turbo Brice offers is a decent alternative over the stock unit. According to Bryan at BNR it is a great compressor wheel. However the wg actuator needs work, which again I overlooked and was not his fault.
Brice, again, I apologize for that post. It was my bad since I didn't research fully.
sorry for the threadjack