First dyno plot for stage 1
01-15-2004, 03:34 AM
#76
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You are using some light 17's wheel/tire combo if you can get 6lb avantage over the 18's that come with the vehicle (you mean 6 lbs at each corner correct?)
-Mr. Wigggles
-Mr. Wigggles
01-15-2004, 07:41 AM
#77
AYYYY....I mean....ARRRR!
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Originally posted by canzoomer
Not a chance in hell.
See the new EPA2 emissions standards.
They allow about half as much CO and nitrates as the old EPA 48 state regs.
The URL is somewhere on this forum. I posted links to all the regs a couple of months back.
Do a search using Canzoomer and EPA and you should find it.
Not a chance in hell.
See the new EPA2 emissions standards.
They allow about half as much CO and nitrates as the old EPA 48 state regs.
The URL is somewhere on this forum. I posted links to all the regs a couple of months back.
Do a search using Canzoomer and EPA and you should find it.
the streets in your opinion?
01-15-2004, 10:06 AM
#78
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FONZIE: Canzoomer stated in another post, that the Random Tech cat, Mid-pipe and Resonator that he is going to sell, is about 4 dbs louder than stock. I dont think it's going to be and attention getter with the noise.
01-15-2004, 10:08 AM
#79
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Originally posted by MrWigggles
You are using some light 17's wheel/tire combo if you can get 6lb avantage over the 18's that come with the vehicle (you mean 6 lbs at each corner correct?)
You are using some light 17's wheel/tire combo if you can get 6lb avantage over the 18's that come with the vehicle (you mean 6 lbs at each corner correct?)
Regards,
Gordon
01-15-2004, 02:42 PM
#80
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Originally posted by JimW
FONZIE: Canzoomer stated in another post, that the Random Tech cat, Mid-pipe and Resonator that he is going to sell, is about 4 dbs louder than stock. I dont think it's going to be and attention getter with the noise.
FONZIE: Canzoomer stated in another post, that the Random Tech cat, Mid-pipe and Resonator that he is going to sell, is about 4 dbs louder than stock. I dont think it's going to be and attention getter with the noise.
Thanks. I did a search, but couldn't find anything on that.
01-15-2004, 08:59 PM
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Sorry Fonz, I can't remember where I saw the post, I guess Maurice will come out with that info soon enough. About the wheel size: I think we all know that the larger the wheel, the more rolling resistance it has,and therefore worse 60ft times, but when you move to a 17'' like some of you have, are you replacing it with a thicker tire, anotherwords keeping the diameter the same, if not, won't this confuse the computer? I like the look of the 18'' wheels, although I guess we could put 17s on and lower the car to minimize the gap!
01-16-2004, 01:56 AM
#82
Forum Vendor
Originally posted by MrWigggles
You are using some light 17's wheel/tire combo if you can get 6lb avantage over the 18's that come with the vehicle (you mean 6 lbs at each corner correct?)
-Mr. Wigggles
You are using some light 17's wheel/tire combo if you can get 6lb avantage over the 18's that come with the vehicle (you mean 6 lbs at each corner correct?)
-Mr. Wigggles
17" decent, not too expensive wheels are 17 or so.
Savings: 3-4 lbs.
17" tires are lighter than same model 18 by around 3 lbs each.
Total per corner: 6-7 lbs.
01-16-2004, 01:58 AM
#83
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Originally posted by FONZIE
Emissions legal, or not, would your random tech cat with the resonator advertised on your site be too loud and noticeable on
the streets in your opinion?
Emissions legal, or not, would your random tech cat with the resonator advertised on your site be too loud and noticeable on
the streets in your opinion?
If you buld mid-pipe with no resonator in it, more noise, add a cat-back, probably pretty loud..
I would say that the combo will be definiotely louder than stock, but not a nutsoid screamer.
01-18-2004, 06:28 PM
#85
Registered User
Originally posted by canzoomer
Stock wheels are 21 lbs each.
17" decent, not too expensive wheels are 17 or so.
Savings: 3-4 lbs.
17" tires are lighter than same model 18 by around 3 lbs each.
Total per corner: 6-7 lbs.
Stock wheels are 21 lbs each.
17" decent, not too expensive wheels are 17 or so.
Savings: 3-4 lbs.
17" tires are lighter than same model 18 by around 3 lbs each.
Total per corner: 6-7 lbs.
Typically higher profile tires with the same overall outer diameter are usually heavier*. For the RE040's that the RX-8 comes with this is defintely true (see attached). The 225/45-18 is 2 lbs lighter than the 225/50-17 tire. This is typically true of the S-03 line as well but there isn't a 225/50-17 for direct comparison.
As far as the weight of the wheel. Considering the RE040 weighs 26 pounds, the wheel would be 20 according to this persons measurement:
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...l+weight+stock
But even if he was a pound off and the wheels are really 21. That includes the tire pressure monitor and the balancing lead weights which together equal about a pound. That puts the wheel at 19 to no more than 20 lb with that removed.
To keep things apples-to-apples moving from a RE040 225/45-18 on stock wheels with pressure monitors to 225/50-17 on 17 lb wheels with pressure monitors, yields the following calculation:
20 + 26 + 1 = 47 lbs for stock
17 + 28 + 1 = 46 lbs for aftermarket.
1 lb will be negligible.
-Mr. Wigggles
*I am sure there is an exception to this rule and I'm sure with enough digging you guys are going to turn one up.
Last edited by MrWigggles; 01-18-2004 at 08:19 PM.
01-18-2004, 10:45 PM
#86
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Originally posted by MrWigggles
Are you sure about your numbers?
Are you sure about your numbers?
I weighed them!
The assumption you made is that I am running higher profile.
I am not. The Nokians are 225/45/17's
http://www.nokiantyres.com/nokian_wr_en.html
Yes, this lowers my car an inch.
It also changes the gear ratio 5% as I mentioned earlier.
Typically higher profile tires with the same overall outer diameter are usually heavier*. For the RE040's that the RX-8 comes with this is defintely true (see attached). The 225/45-18 is 2 lbs lighter than the 225/50-17 tire. This is typically true of the S-03 line as well but there isn't a 225/50-17 for direct comparison.
As far as the weight of the wheel. Considering the RE040 weighs 26 pounds, the wheel would be 20 according to this persons measurement:
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...l+weight+stock
The stock tires weigh 25 lbs ( 6800km of wear on them)
The Nokians weigh at 21 lbs ( brand new before mounting)
But even if he was a pound off and the wheels are really 21. That includes the tire pressure monitor and the balancing lead weights which together equal about a pound. That puts the wheel at 19 to no more than 20 lb with that removed.
My inexpensive alloy winter wheels weigh 4 lbs less at 17 lbs.
To keep things apples-to-apples moving from a RE040 225/45-18 on stock wheels with pressure monitors to 225/50-17 on 17 lb wheels with pressure monitors, yields the following calculation:
20 + 26 + 1 = 47 lbs for stock
17 + 28 + 1 = 46 lbs for aftermarket.
1 lb will be negligible.
-Mr. Wigggles
*I am sure there is an exception to this rule and I'm sure with enough digging you guys are going to turn one up.
My winter wheels and tires weigh 8 lbs. less at each corner.
Actually a touch less, as my 17's required less weights than the stocktire/wheel combo, but we are only talking about a couple of ounces!
01-18-2004, 10:48 PM
#87
Forum Vendor
Originally posted by FONZIE
Emissions legal, or not, would your random tech cat with the resonator advertised on your site be too loud and noticeable on
the streets in your opinion?
Emissions legal, or not, would your random tech cat with the resonator advertised on your site be too loud and noticeable on
the streets in your opinion?
With the Random and resonator the noise level would be very little difference from stock. Most of the muffling is done at the back.
If you run no cat, or no resonator, or both off, you can definitely tell the difference over stock.
01-23-2004, 02:08 AM
#89
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Borla?
I too have the Borlasystem installed, and would like to see some graph results before I would order. The posts say your company has a car mith a Borla.
felix
felix
01-30-2004, 11:03 PM
#90
Registered
Originally posted by kristopher_d
There are some many events happening at various Rev levels, it's hard to say which one may be causing those dips. You have only the primary intake ports open up to 3250, then the secondary intake ports open. At 5500 the variable fresh air duct opens. At 6250 the tertiary intake ports open, followed by the VDI at 7500. That's 4 events that introduce turbulence into the intake system momentarily, resulting in a brief loss of mass air flow and thus a brief reduction in power. Add to that the very brief moments of over rich fuel from the secondary and "Second Primary" (tertiary) injectors coming on line. I haven't found any documentation on the timing of the fuel events, but it seems logical that they would coincide with the secondary and tertiary intake port openings. All of these complex intake events are why the car has such a wonderfully gradual power rise. That very broad power band is why we have so much fun in the twisties. Lucky us, mazda rotaries have had variable intake timing for 20 years, while honda and nissan are just figuring it out, and not getting the same silent, relatively smooth results. The renesis is much better than the old 6P 13B's in the 2G 7's. If your gronding isn't flawless in a 7, it's a very noticeable stumble at 5K.
There are some many events happening at various Rev levels, it's hard to say which one may be causing those dips. You have only the primary intake ports open up to 3250, then the secondary intake ports open. At 5500 the variable fresh air duct opens. At 6250 the tertiary intake ports open, followed by the VDI at 7500. That's 4 events that introduce turbulence into the intake system momentarily, resulting in a brief loss of mass air flow and thus a brief reduction in power. Add to that the very brief moments of over rich fuel from the secondary and "Second Primary" (tertiary) injectors coming on line. I haven't found any documentation on the timing of the fuel events, but it seems logical that they would coincide with the secondary and tertiary intake port openings. All of these complex intake events are why the car has such a wonderfully gradual power rise. That very broad power band is why we have so much fun in the twisties. Lucky us, mazda rotaries have had variable intake timing for 20 years, while honda and nissan are just figuring it out, and not getting the same silent, relatively smooth results. The renesis is much better than the old 6P 13B's in the 2G 7's. If your gronding isn't flawless in a 7, it's a very noticeable stumble at 5K.
01-30-2004, 11:45 PM
#91
Metatron
iTrader: (1)
Not quite.....
The duct actuators on the Renesis are already electric.
The air pump only runs on start-up for the catalyst temp.
Only the short variable air duct, up front, is not an electric motor, but an electrically controlled vacuum servo, and it does take its time.
I am open to correction....
S
The air pump only runs on start-up for the catalyst temp.
Only the short variable air duct, up front, is not an electric motor, but an electrically controlled vacuum servo, and it does take its time.
I am open to correction....
S
01-31-2004, 12:19 AM
#92
No Stealth, you are correct.
The ports are all electric.
An, as a further correction, the mix runs lean when these events occur, not rich as RotaryGod indicated.
This is what I am tuning with the E-Manage now.
I'm trying to introduce a slightly rich spike right as the ports open to counteract the lean dip that ensues when the air column suddenly accelerates.
The ports are all electric.
An, as a further correction, the mix runs lean when these events occur, not rich as RotaryGod indicated.
This is what I am tuning with the E-Manage now.
I'm trying to introduce a slightly rich spike right as the ports open to counteract the lean dip that ensues when the air column suddenly accelerates.
01-31-2004, 12:32 PM
#93
Forum Vendor
Originally posted by Maniac
No Stealth, you are correct.
The ports are all electric.
An, as a further correction, the mix runs lean when these events occur, not rich as RotaryGod indicated.
This is what I am tuning with the E-Manage now.
I'm trying to introduce a slightly rich spike right as the ports open to counteract the lean dip that ensues when the air column suddenly accelerates.
No Stealth, you are correct.
The ports are all electric.
An, as a further correction, the mix runs lean when these events occur, not rich as RotaryGod indicated.
This is what I am tuning with the E-Manage now.
I'm trying to introduce a slightly rich spike right as the ports open to counteract the lean dip that ensues when the air column suddenly accelerates.
If you open the throttle wide open really fast the engine bogs.
The cure was to use a pumper carb that if opened more quickly than a certain pre-set amount has a piston that injects an extra squirt of gas.
It is a bit tricky to tune for as the amount needed varies with rpm AND throttle opening. AND with how fast the rpm climbs.
In other words in 1st gear WOT your requirements are different than in 5th gear.
02-01-2004, 03:35 AM
#94
Registered
Originally posted by Maniac
No Stealth, you are correct.
The ports are all electric.
An, as a further correction, the mix runs lean when these events occur, not rich as RotaryGod indicated.
This is what I am tuning with the E-Manage now.
I'm trying to introduce a slightly rich spike right as the ports open to counteract the lean dip that ensues when the air column suddenly accelerates.
No Stealth, you are correct.
The ports are all electric.
An, as a further correction, the mix runs lean when these events occur, not rich as RotaryGod indicated.
This is what I am tuning with the E-Manage now.
I'm trying to introduce a slightly rich spike right as the ports open to counteract the lean dip that ensues when the air column suddenly accelerates.
Where did I ever say it ran rich at transition??? I didn't. I did say that there would be uneven and turbulent flow through the runners as they opened but I never specified a rich or lean condition.
02-01-2004, 03:45 AM
#95
Originally posted by rotarygod
Electric heh? I apparently stand corrected.
Where did I ever say it ran rich at transition??? I didn't. I did say that there would be uneven and turbulent flow through the runners as they opened but I never specified a rich or lean condition.
Electric heh? I apparently stand corrected.
Where did I ever say it ran rich at transition??? I didn't. I did say that there would be uneven and turbulent flow through the runners as they opened but I never specified a rich or lean condition.
That was in a quote by "kristopher_d" that was inside your post I was quoting from. You didn't address that directly, so I assimilated it all.
Too much stuff floating around in my head to keep up with actual facts, let alone who stated them! :p
02-03-2004, 09:48 PM
#96
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CZ, I may be staring too hard at the dyno chart or something, but you breifly mentioned that there is no increase in peak hp rpm's? I'm wondering why especially since the chart shows a basically steady increase in hp right up to the last dip at 86mph (is that 9500rpm?). You also briefly mentioned downloading 5 charts at the same time (took 5 seconds)? Do all of your runs show a definite brick wall there? And if so, why? Thanks. (I'm buying stage 1 or 2-complete, not sure which or when yet, but I am 
)
)
02-04-2004, 03:01 AM
#97
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Originally posted by Racer X-8
CZ, I may be staring too hard at the dyno chart or something, but you breifly mentioned that there is no increase in peak hp rpm's? I'm wondering why especially since the chart shows a basically steady increase in hp right up to the last dip at 86mph (is that 9500rpm?). You also briefly mentioned downloading 5 charts at the same time (took 5 seconds)? Do all of your runs show a definite brick wall there? And if so, why? Thanks. (I'm buying stage 1 or 2-complete, not sure which or when yet, but I am)
CZ, I may be staring too hard at the dyno chart or something, but you breifly mentioned that there is no increase in peak hp rpm's? I'm wondering why especially since the chart shows a basically steady increase in hp right up to the last dip at 86mph (is that 9500rpm?). You also briefly mentioned downloading 5 charts at the same time (took 5 seconds)? Do all of your runs show a definite brick wall there? And if so, why? Thanks. (I'm buying stage 1 or 2-complete, not sure which or when yet, but I am
)
I do not know with certainty, but I believe the two factors driving this are:
A) We are reaching the maximum air flow capacity. Dyno charts with aftermarket exhaust and intakes all show increases in the 8,000 and higher ranges, and next to nothing at lower rpm.
B) The stock ignition basically reaches it's limitations at those higher rpm's. At a certain point the coils do not charge fast enough to get full spark output, the circuit is not fast enough to maintain a clean signal, and power suffers.
Thing is, while one may work on mo repower in these higher regions, it is not going to show up as useful power for street use so we are not likely gaining much in the exercie of trying to improve this.
My $0.02 worth on the subject.
03-25-2004, 12:56 AM
#100
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Originally posted by davefzr
Do you guys plan on posting another dyno plot with the latest settings combined with the "L" flash?
Thankx a lot for your comments.
Do you guys plan on posting another dyno plot with the latest settings combined with the "L" flash?
Thankx a lot for your comments.
I am going to the dealers to have it done Thursday, and after that we will data log, tune as needed, and so on.
I am planning some dyno sessions next week, as we are testing our maps for the new flash, plus ones for the various combinations of our midpipe, and with the Greddy SP2 cat-back.
So, about a week from now I should have some dyno runs to post.