canzoomer

Instead of connecting an rpm hookup to the car ( requires tapping into wires and Iwas paying $80 an hour in the shop where the Dynojet is) we simply measured speeds at set rpm points, and calibrated the Dynojet mph readings to the rpm settings.

So, ignore the "mph " and think "rpm" and all is good.

canzoomer

We are at about 3,000 foot altitude here ( 1,000 meters) so the power is lower than at sea level.
General adjustment figure used for thsi altitude is 6.5%, so if you want to see the equivalents adjust for sea level multiply these figures by 1.0695
In other words stock run at about 180hp, and with the Stage1 computer turned on about 206hp at the wheels.

canzoomer

Yup. Makes sense. You have a nice column of air, moving down a tube.
Now you pop open a valve, changing the tube. Lots of turbulence until the new air column is established and gets momentum back, then it picks right up again.

Both GTech plots and other dyno runs show the same effect.

canzoomer

No safe mode, no check engine lights, no power loss.
Did these the old fashioned way.
Actually rx-friend thought of this one:

Unbolt the rear wheel speed sensors, but leave them connected.
Tie them back with zip ties. Easy. Takes 5 minutes with a socket wrench.

Now the car sees speed sensors in circuit.
Just no speed at any of the wheels, because they are not picking up the pulses as the wheels with the notches that cause the pulses are not near to the sensor inductor any more.

Works just fine.

canzoomer

It creates an event after about 20 to 30 seconds.

As that is far longer than a dyno run, or a quarter mile or anything else, and only happens in situations where you have effectively infinite wheel spin, it is not reproducible execpt under some particular artificial conditions. For example, put the car on a dyno, run it at 5,000rpm sustained in 3rd gear, and after a half minute it goes "funny".

I managed to do this twice while doing long calibration runs.

On actual runs it never happened as they take only about 5 seconds.

canzoomer

Best we got on a dyno was about 50hp over stock, at the rear wheels. That is to say about 220 whp. This is with a very aggressive fuel map, 94 octane gas, and 5 degrees of ignition advance.

If one were to assume 15% driveline loss, and 6.5% loss for doing the runs at 3,000 foot altitude, the calculation is:
For driveline loss: 1/.85 x 220 =259
For altitude compensation: 1/.935 x 259 = 277

If we assume 20% driveline loss:
For driveline loss: 1/.80 x 220 =275
For altitude compensation: 1/.935 x 275 = 294

Personally I fell the 15% is closest to the truth.

murix

Just a thought on drivetrain loss. The carbon fiber driveshaft helps reduce this number among other things. I think the number will be indeed only a 15% loss. I would be very suprised if it was high.

Based on trap speeds I have seen, my personal experience with my RX8, and automotive knowledge I have gained over the years working with cars, I personally feel this is indeed only a 220-225hp car. I suspected that before I bought mine so it was not a factor for me as I knew the power could be regained.

As mentioned earlier, the important part of these dynos is not the numbers, but the difference in the curves between the two pulls. The actual numbers will vary for everyone, but the curves should look relatively the same.

CZ, I would like to say good work and hopefully I can give you some numbers back soon enough near sea level. I have not yet, but have decided to purchase one of your ECU's in the next couple of weeks. I like what I see.

My personal experience with ecu tuning involves my 97 Eclipse Turbo which has seen a S-AFC, DFI Gen VI standalone, and now a Greddy E-Manage. I love the E-Manage and could not imagine not having the ability to tune myself, but I can appreciate the amount of work and effort it takes to get any good fuel management well tuned, especially when you have a very busy day job and a life you try to live around it.

I am more than happy to pay you for those hours you logged so I do not have to myself as I can not justify the time and cost it would incur for me to do so with only the basic mods I intend for the engine. With my Eclipse and the amount of work that went into it, that level is tuning is both justified and necessary.

With the current backorder now, what type of realistic shipping time would I be looking at if I bought it this month? 2-3 weeks considering you are actually already now shipping?

I am going to dyno my car between every mod I do to justify its existence.

racerdave

Amen! And thank you for doing that... IMHO, the butt dyno just don't cut it.

If you do dyno all your mods, that will be a tremendous help to this whole RX-8 community.

Genom

Same here. I havent gotten a dyno run done with the greddy exhaust yet, but as soon as I get my stage1, I will be doing a couple dyno runs without it installed yet to compare just exhaust vs stock since I did a baseline run before doing anything.

Cant wait! I CANT WAIT I TELL YOU!

Sorry. Very enthusiastic is all :D

RX-8 friend

Even with DSC off, and ABS fooled, the car senses the "wrong" forces on the suspension (we think), and the EPS gets upset!

This car is just so smart!

You can see why it's protected so well those unfortunate enough to have been in an accident so far!
This has nothing to do with any modifications (stage 1 or 2). As you can see Stage 1 and 2 use a "piggyback" system to modify the fuel map only in stage 1, and the fuel and timing etc. in stage 2. This does not effect the safety systems (except perhaps making them come into effect earlier due to increased power and therefore earlier driver over-reach .

Stage 2 will add a significantly larger amount of power, as timing and exhaust with appropriate fuel modification will be done. This tuning setup has not been settled yet, just explored to see what might be available. If you look at the 3rd gen curve several messages above, you will see how "lumpy" it is due to the sequential turbos and subsequent switching and resonances. Compare to the RX-8 curve, which is much smoother (except just where the intake manifold is modified by the stock system). Imagine this same curve (smooth) except much higher - perhaps an additional 30-50 HP. Stage 1 is pretty much "stock", at least "how it was intended", so you can mess with other components without getting into dangerous territory. You may end up with more or less HP depending on what you do with intakes and exhausts and how they interact with the current fuel map, but you probably will not damage the engine. Stage 2 -requires- specific intake and exhaust parts as it takes the car far enough into the extreme that specific tuning is necessary. If you want to "mix and match", you will be on your own, re proper fuel maps, just like the 3rd gen RX-7 owners are when they modify. This is likely to be resolved by tuning shops with proper tuning hardware in the future.

Something many people learn the hard way - the more power you tune into a car, the harder it is to keep reliable and the harder it is to drive smoothly. I own a 3rd gen RX-7 - I learned the hard way . I expected it, but anyway, it's life and engineering. Oh, and no, I haven't blown my engine....yet.

family_man

Any idea what stage 1 does to 0-60 times? I realize the 8 isn't a drag car, but seems these gains could shave half a second off the 60 sprint, or am I being optimistic.

Omicron

Based on Canzoomer's 13.78 GTech-timed quarter mile run, I would hazard a guess that it'll make this car run 0-60 MPH in the 5.4 second range or less.

:D

Floyd

Just a quick question....i know the addition of a high temp temp cat will help lower emmisions, but does any one know if a stage 2 + High temp cat will actualy pass emmisions in most states? It would be great if the CZ stage 2 could be turned into a street mod!

JimW

Well, I'm glad I was wrong on the drivetrain loss. Great H.P. #s and the way it is gained, it seems stage 1 should be enough but stage 2 is tempting.

family_man

I've been wondering the same thing. Although my state (Arkansas) doesn't do emissions testing, I would like to keep the car "emmisions legal" if at all possible.
What does a good hi temp cat normally run ($) anyway?

family_man

Ah ... speed ... sweet, sweet speed.
What's that dear... oh I'm drooling again, sorry.

canzoomer

Not a chance in hell.

See the new EPA2 emissions standards.

They allow about half as much CO and nitrates as the old EPA 48 state regs.

The URL is somewhere on this forum. I posted links to all the regs a couple of months back.

Do a search using Canzoomer and EPA and you should find it.

canzoomer

We are providing the midpipe with a Random Tech cat for $624, and with a Magnaflow 18" (3" internal diameter) resonator for $774. All 3" pipe diameter components.

If you bolt it to a Borla or Greddy cat-back you will have to get their front flange changed as the original is 2.5"


Steel, bolt-on, high temperature powder finish. Real high temp, not that "sort of high temp" milky silver. Ugly black or olive colours only.

With the resonator it is close to the noise level for the original cat. esonator. About 4dB louder.

davefzr

Hey Maurice, for those people who are interested in getting a Stage 1 and possibly Stage 2 later, what parts/components do you recommend. The reason I am asking is because I would like to get an intake/exhaust but dont want to throw these components away at a later point or buy new ones because I wont get the most out of Stage 2. I currently have the Borla exhaust and am interested in getting an intake shortly but I dont want to shoot myself in the foot later.

Thankx!

canzoomer

The Borla is nice. Greddy makes a nice cat-back as well.

Midpipe is essential with Stage2, high temperature cat recommended. Of course you then have to be concerned with emissions legality.

I am dubious about intakes really making much difference..

In general do the exhaust, do the intake if you feel like it, and seriously, if you want faster acceleration think about 17" wheels!

I know, this is sacriligious, but the RX-8 is geared quite tall. 18" look cool, but how often do you really think you are going to go 250kmh (155mph) ?

Drop to 17's and you gain about 5% on final gear ratio. That will do a lot more for your acceleration than any pulleys, or most other bolt-ons!

If you pick decent wheels this also drops the weight per wheel 3 to 6 lbs. each, and that helps handling a fair bit.

racerdave

Maurice... what was the 0-60 on the 13.78 quarter time you ran?

Just curious...

(Good points about the wheels too... but will it look like a "Monster Truck" with shorter wheel/tire combo? )

canzoomer

Sorry, i do not recall.

I do not think it looks bad.
I (and a few others I know of) are running 17" wheels for winter, with our winter tires, and it looks just fine.

See, for examples:
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...&pagenumber=12

or:
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...&pagenumber=11

or:
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...&pagenumber=10

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Oof! Gonna have to disagree on that one!

I think the RX-8 looks like it is on stilts on the STOCK wheels (with a stock ride height).
Going to a smaller rolling diameter makes the car look like one of those barrio jumpers.
Just as well make them spoked wheels with center knock-offs while you are at it!:p

But for the sake of performance, its hard to beat a good 15" wheel....

racerdave

I have to agree. I'd have no problem living with the 17s as snows, but not as daily wheels... the 18s just look "right" on the 8, even though they are heavier.

Gord96BRG

I actually prefer the look of my 17" winter wheels to the stock 18s! The 6 lbs per wheel/tire weight advantage helps, but I think the 18s look too big. Wagon wheels, tractor wheels, call it what you like - I'm not keen on it, and sacrificing performance for the look doesn't impress me. Going to 19s is even worse!

(It's not like this stuff is new - in the late 1940s, MG equipped the TC with 19" wheels. When the TC was replaced with the TD, they dropped to 16" wheels, for a huge improvement in ride and handling! )

Regards,
Gordon