COBB Tune Worth the Money?
 

I got the money but is the COBB tuned by MM even worth it?

I was excited about buying it 2 days ago but MM never got back to me and im hearing 3-4 week wait times for the custom tune.
Is it really worth the $700? I got 2 p-mods on my car (gutted cat and exhaust) and im about to install the RB header.

What will i get out of it?

Thanks for any help

I don't know. Is it?
There is a lot to read about it - especially the point that I do NOT respond to PMs here.
Use the e-mail link on my page if you have any questions.

Thanks!

Considering that you paid the MSRP for the accessPORT which is the same price you'll find everywhere else AND it includes 6 months of tuning I'd say it's worth it.

Hey MM,

I sent you an email as-well (ap@mazdamaniac.com?) - You prob just busy i know people flood your inbox.

Trust me i read up on this but its kinda iffy cause people say get it but then i see people selling it and i cant really tell what it does to be honest or how will i benefit from my $700 investment. I mean thats a lot of money.

I'm also not just talking about MM tune im talking about the COBB in general, i always see people selling it so thats why im asking is the whole-thing really worth it?

Again thanks for any help. Thanks for even reading this.

Considering he's paying $500 for the RB header for 5hp. I don't think he'd think the MM tune is worth it.:uhh:

If you're not seeing the benefit then I'd suggest doing more reading. The COBB allows the tuner to control nearly every aspect of the RX8 that the PCM controls. You're able to eliminate emission check engine lights and run midpipes without a CEL, remove the worthless airpump etc.

You can fully tune the fuel table, injector scaling, fan turn on temps, maf calibration and tons of other stuff. You can raise your rev limiter, raise your idle speed etc.

The accessPORT allows your RX8 to be customized to the way you want it and removes the factory BS that is dictated by politics and compromise.

If you have any plans on tuning your car, the accessPORT is the best solition on the market. You don't get any better than using the stock PCM unless you're wanting to spend thousands on a stand alone and hundreds more on a tuner to tune it for you.

Here are the threads you need to check out:

New MazdaManiac BASE Calibrations
Cobb AccessPORT Discussion

First off shaunv74
I didnt pay anywhere near $550 for the RB header i got a great deal on it and paid next nothing for it.

2nd Flashwing
Thank you for your help, BUT i wont be doing any tuning and don't plan on learning how to do so cause thats where MM comes in. Thats why im asking about this stuff, I'm going to order it tonight but i just wanted laymen terms for what it can do and some more information from other people without reading 50 pages of nothing before dropping $700.

$700 may seem like a little to you but its a lot of money for me.

I've built my entire car off of a personal budget so no, $700 isn't chump change for me. My point was that you're getting some major benefits compared to what you can spend that money on.

People spend $300 or more on intakes, $800+ on cat backs and other items which do little to nothing to enhance the performance of the car. The accessPORT not only will give you power increases but also help your motor last longer by helping to control engine temperatures and increasing your oil meter pump output.

It's probably the best $700 you can spend on your RX8.

That's enough information for me to buy it right there. Everything i got on my car was purchased on a deal. I try not to pay full price when there are always sales or deals going on but it is a lot of money. I could have gotten an AP way back but it didn't have the MM tune and thats where its at. I just wanna know how long the turn around time is for MM tune. Ill spend extra to get pushed to the top of the list.

Anyway thanks Flashwing for all your help!

IMHO, with relatively minimal gains of NA, the Racing Beat re-flash service is a bit more on target when it comes to price Vs. Value. Sure, your gains will not be quite as high (we're talking what, 5-10hp?) but you will save yourself a big $400 in the wallet. With regards to gains I've been too brainwashed with friends hi-horsepower turbo cars and gains possible with those platforms (think 400+ awhp wrx...)

With regards to FI that's a no brainer. AP for sure...

As long as your car is one of those that has a MAF calibration curve that matches the RB test vehicle and you don't bring your vehicle in for dealer service.
And/or if you don't want CELs addressed.
Or don't want any customized features.
Or have an auto.
etc.

You didn't quote the "IMHO" part! lol

-A properly designed intake (with a relatively low turbulence flow/proper ID MAF tube) shouldn't have issues. RB flash is, as far as things are concerned, *universal* enough to cause small variations not to matter, or so I believe. With regards to engine/motor issues; Worst case scenario, ask them to update your ECU if anything feels out of the norm. IMO proper maintenance/close watch will prove more beneficial than purchasing a $700 flashing device that allows you to mask any previous reflashing (with regards to engine life). Racing Beat has a great history with rotaries and tends to be a bit conservative in nature, I trust them as a company who spends much time in R&D

-Deleting a CEL does not justify $400 for me

-Customized features? Racing beat raises redline to 9300 and lowers fan turn on temps, anything more wouldn't justify $400 for myself

-Automatics + Turbos, indeed Accessport proves the way to go; Perhaps scanalyser pro if you are so inclined to tune yourself, then again there is always accesstuner pro for that...

Correct me if I'm wrong in any of this, I'm only a bit educated back from the AP Beta thread and the old RB threads...

Well, then go with racing beat. If you're looking for a one stop source for your tuning needs both now and in the future get the AP. IMHO racing beat's flash is a thing of the past. Don't forget you need to ship your PCM to them to have it flashed.

I was throwing in my .02, OP and I are different people, lol

I agree with i wouldnt pay 700 for 10 horsepower. i prefer buy a body kit or a exhaust or wheels or tires or suspension. iwill consider buy it when i go FI

i bought one. it's not here yet, but i'm hoping mm will use it to tune my car when it does get here.

i'm not sure how long it takes for turn around, but from what i've read, folks who completely follow the directions in the BASE CALIbrations thread receive a first tune within 1 to 3 weeks.

i'm assuming that while you're waiting for mm, you can flash back to stock or over to one of the COBB maps. That is, you don't have to run the base map the whole time. But i'm not sure about that either.

when it comes to this car, i don't look at simply HP/dollar, after all I'm trying to bring out the characteristics of the car that i like best while improving overall performance and longevity. 10-20 good (not spiky) hp for 700 is damn good for this car though.

Tell you what, IMHO, it's well worth it. The only mods I have on my car now are: Short Shifter, exhaust and now MM's basic tune. The tune alone made the world of difference in how my car drives and feels now. Although mine is an '06, it only had 13,500 miles on it when I bought it, so it was still in very good condition. I was amazed..I can't attest to any other tuner as I've gotten mine from MM. I don't see much value in a body kit..it's not going to make my car run better...only look better. Everybody has differing opinions on what's important to them..

my car runs perfect .^ good for you . looks does matter to me .dude

^^ Your avatar makes it look like you're maxing out speed on the RX8. Is that 4th gear top out? or 5th. 137 is my top speed in the 8, but can't remember if that was in 5th or 6th gear. I wouldn't have taken it that high on the redline though :p

I can give you one word of advice. Patience.

The post above makes you come off very impatient. You wonder if something is worth it or not b/c $700 is "a lot of money", but then you say you throw extra money to get bumped to the top of the list. You sort of contradict yourself here and that can only spell out impatience. Be patient with your 8 and you'll get the most out of what you do.

"Fixing" a cel for emmissions can cost WAY over $400 in time and parts. Case in point; I have no cat, no air pump, and will not pass emissions in MD. Fixing these would required aquisition of a cat an putting all that crap back into the car, then taking it all back out, year after year. AP is worth it just for that reason alone.

And for the entertainment value, the ATR+AP is priceless.

So your username, carbonRX8, is derived from the amount of carbon you're RX8 emits?

I thought they actually hook your exhaust up to a measuring tool in MD. Maybe that's just DC?

It emits the same amout of "carbon" either way. Just in the form of unburned hydrocarbons and CO.

I dont know about DC, but most of MD just does the OBDII test (Some counties dont test emmissions at all; i.e., Talbot.) In fact, I just went through it about a month ago and passed with flying colors. They do do the sniff test for cars older than '96 (IIRC). They have the technology, they just dont use it.

Great. Dude. That's why I said "..everybody has differing opinions on what's important to them." Dude. I was not taking a shot at you. Dude.

The Cobb accessport is the only reason my car is running right now. When I bought it, for whatever reason, it didn't have any sort of Engine management. MM got my car running right through the AP.

See this is what i mean.

I just wanted some input from other people. I'm still thinking about getting it but then again the gains are not worth 700...i mean $700 for 10hp i rather get some cosmetic changes cause its not like I'm racing the car were 10hp would really make a difference -- all im saying is i wont benefit much from getting this.

I'm not saying i wont get it, just i rather make my car look more unique than get the AP.

And rotarykillz dont come at me like that, If I'm paying 700 whats another 100 so i don't have to wait 3 weeks to use the product in which it was intended.

All in all I'm glad i started this thread.

That's cool. Tell ya what. Drive someone's car that has MM's tune. You'll notice the difference right off the bat..

Any mod that while adding performance can also increase MPGs and the longevitity of my 8 is worth it to me!

I really hate to burst your bubble, but MM's base map does zilch for performance. All it does it up the oil injection at low load, turn on your fans sooner, and change the map for the throttle by wire so the throttle opens further with the same gas pedal position.

dude your dyno butt is working...

That may very be what he's doing...I didn't make any comment on 'how' or 'what' he did, I'm just saying the basic tune makes a world of difference in how 'my' car drives. Once I'm done with the rest of the tuning, it'll still be better than what I had with a stock car.

...never trust butt dynos on RX8club...

Best $400 to spend

http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main...products_id=41

just my $.02

^ thats hilarious!

I live in California; perhaps if removing a CEL will pass your emissions that aspect would indeed be desireable. For CA users, removing CEL is purely cosmetic. Also, I am NA and 95% of the time I have no CEL.

If AP were the only option, I would be all for it, preaching it a steal for what it's capable of. The differenciating factor between it and RB flash just aren't great enough for me. Indeed a good thread, you get first person points of view. At the risk of redundancy, na power hunting on this car is laughable compared to other platforms.

Fi / AT = AP no doubt.

And you are suggesting this is fact based on what assessment?


The base calibration does not touch the OL fuel tables and main ignition tables.
However, I do make adjustments to the CL trim tables, the rise-time ignition tables, the load modifiers and the injector scaling in that v4.0.0 calibration for N/A.

Apparently, r0tor is only looking at the "stolen" version of one of my early "base" calibrations from last spring that was going around courtesy of lolachampcar (and courtesy of Cobb, who hadn't gotten the code lock right at that point).

actual results of your base map -shrug-

remapping that throttle though is a great trick to impress people, i'll give you that

So, you know what I am doing to the maps based on the results? I take it you are using your butt dyno for this measurement?

You talk a lot of shit for someone that is using my calibrations and wants more of the same for free.

I don't remap the throttle on the base calibrations. I did however remap the throttle on the customer calibration that Bill unlocked and spread around, so you are effectively admitting to receiving stolen intellectual property.

...well i sure as hell know the maps last summer you sent me had the throttle readjusted...

oh... and get your story straight first https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...&postcount=160

First of all, that's March of last year. As I pointed out, I moved to an entirely different system in December of last year. (I had also moved to an incrementally different system in September when I generously offered to extend your already-expired Calibration Service.)
Second, I am discussing a tuned calibration in that post, not a start-up calibration.

oh thats right - in my 15 months you went through 3 different tuning strategies (well actually 4 since I provided lots of info on the early problems), every time I got close to getting a final tune (since you get about a map every month or so) the strategy "changed" so I had to start from scratch, I took it upon myself to automate the spreadsheets to help you catch back up, and by doing that and getting 9 tunes in 15 months i was an overwhelming pain in your ass and i don't deserve any coil dwell adjustments

...ah yes, its all coming back to me now... lolz

Hey, if that's how you see it, then so be it.
If it would be useful to you, I can post up every correspondence we had in that period. I'm sure it would be quite enlightening.

You are a drop in the bucket - one of 400 customers - and a bitter drop of acid at that. I have no problem letting you go.

Get AccessPort and its running super lean





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3/21/2008
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From r0tor


Attached is the data.

It appears I'm running a full point higher afr ratio tonight then last week. Either the Cobb "stock" flash with the new cal is leaner then my old cal or perhaps I have to drive around longer to develop the fuel trims more (i drove around for a good hour after going to stock -which was 3 drive cycles)... or my car suddenly changed

not sure... the "butt dyno" feels about normal though as was the idle and driveability


Let me know if you need more or different data. If your putting together a map just for me, I'd really like... mild oil metering increases over stock, lower fan temps then stock, the 9200 rpm redline, 12.8-13.0 afr for stage 1, and all CELs functional (i'd actually like to see if my cat fails).


3/21/08
mazdamaniac

Can I get a log that is stock OE flash with these data points:
RPM
MAF
LAMBD and
LOAD
The calculated load number is more important that anything.

I'll put together a custom calibration from that.

Thanks!
Jeff Abrams

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 2:27 PM
To: Jeff Abrams
Subject: AP running lean

Jeff,

This is r0tor from the forum. I have one of the lean running NA cars out there and i verified it is indeed running lean on my CANscan. My car setup is stock intake, RP high flow cat, RB exhaust.

PLease take a look at the data from my car while on the stock calibration that I recorded last week. I have airflow logged as well as a VE calculation and some graphs. One thing to note is for the throttle position i logged absolute instead of relative by mistake so it goes between 13-78% instead of 0-100.

I'd really like to see my car running at 13.0 for a stage 1 setup. Hopefully this is achievable as currently it was in the 14's and 15's at WOT.

thanks
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---------------------------------------------
4-6-2008
Jeff,

I've been driving around with the map 'MM 2004 MT NA v 1b_1A' for a couple weeks now and I just wanted to give you some feedback data as to how its running at WOT and see if its matching up to the targets you were expecting... i assume it is but you would be the one that would really know obviously. I've attached the data I just took from a 2nd and 3rd gear run for analysis.

I also attached the map i'm running on for reference. Perhaps if everything is performing as expected, I could get a matching stage 2 map and give that a try. I also was wondering if you still had all the CELs active on this map - I have a cat and would like to know if its going out!

--------------------------------------------


-----------------------------------
5-16-2008
----------------------------------
This e-mail is being sent to ALL of the people that have purchased an
AccessPORT from me since February.
The content/request is not user specific, so if this seems "out of the
blue", understand that I am just trying to get a handle on all of the issues
that are being experienced by AccessPORT owners so that I can better serve
you.

I've just cleared my inbox again (40 - 60 e-mails a day for the last 2
months of just AccessPORT stuff!), so I need to "start over" with data from
everyone that is using the AccessPORT.
--------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------
6-21-2008
(sorry, never did this... first got time to datalog)


Please list any concerns or issues you have noted:

Runs a bit rich yet. Also as I mentioned on the forums, on warm idle its undriveably for the first 2 drive cycles until a fuel trim gets established for when the engine is rev'd up and then falls back and tries to find idle.

(data attached)
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---------------------------------------
7-8-2008
----------------------------------

Dear MazdaManiac AccessPORT customer:

Due to high demand and an ever-expanding customer base, my policy for AccessPORT support and custom calibration is changing.

Custom calibration services and changes to existing calibrations will be handled under the new Custom Calibration Service.
All NEW customers will receive this service at no additional charge.
All existing customers will also receive this service at no additional charge starting today (Tuesday, July 8th, 2008), regardless of how many updated calibrations you have received so far. This also includes all of the current "second-hand" owners that have contacted me.
Anyone that purchases an AccessPORT from a different source or purchases an AccessPORT "second-hand" from an original MazdaManiac customer after today (Tuesday, July 8th, 2008) can purchase this support separately for $299.00* on my WEB site. http://www.mazdamaniac.com/cobb/accessport.htm

The new Custom Calibration Service entitles the purchaser up to five (5) personalized calibration adjustments for a period of six (6) months after the initial installation set is provided.

I understand that wait times for new files have been long for some and the process has been difficult for others that have highly modified vehicles.
This change to the follow-up process will help ensure that everyone that has purchased (or will purchase) an AccessPORT will get responses to customization requests of equal quality and timeliness.

To be enrolled in this service, please respond to this e-mail with the following information:


----------------------------------------------------
7-11-2008
not sure if you ever got this...

(requoted above last and resubmitted data)
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-------------------------------------
7-15-2008

calibration attached from jeff
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.... but the the process once again changes....


------------------------------------------------
9-23-2008

Jeff... I downloaded the RaceTUNER software so I guess my map needs to be redone (per your forum comments). My current map and log are attached.

My wish list for the new map....
- i believe its running a bit rich yet
- i get smoke on cold starts. Can the OMP be set to 6 instead of 9 at the low end?
- I'd like all CEL's enabled please
- Stock throttle response in the lower gears
- Also, i think you might have changed something at idle with this map because of my past problems of the car stalling right after a reflash. I believe you have the map to go rich at idle with a little load. If thats the case, that can be eliminated as it didn't help the situation

(data attached)
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------------------------------------------------------------
11-19-2008
You are receiving this e-mail because you are listed as a current MazdaManiac AccessPORT customer.

This e-mail is being sent to EVERY MazdaManiac AccessPORT customer.

You do NOT need to respond to this e-mail unless you have concerns or are in need of adjustments to your calibration.

If this e-mail has reached you in error or you no longer use a MazdaManiac provided AccessPORT, please disregard.

If you have sold your AccessPORT, please feel free to forward this e-mail to the new owner.

There has been some confusion about the most efficient way to submit data for updated calibrations.

Included below are the two instruction sets – the initial and the follow-up – that are sent to every AccessPORT customer.

It is very important that these instructions be followed exactly in order to expedite the calibration process.

Also included is an example of a good data set.

Please strive to duplicate these efforts to the best of your ability so that I might better fine-tune your calibrations.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

....still no map response sent....
... i uninstalled the map as my car ran like shit. I find out he masked the emissions CEL and I had a dead cat I didn't know about.
December hits and Jeff posts the process has once again changed and "everyone" resend things in. I decide to give it another shot.

--------------------------------------------------------------
1-23-2009



Any suggestions are welcome on why my car seems to be down on power and fuel mileage (averaging 16-17mpg when I use to get 19-20mpg). I have the BHR plugs/coils/wires, a brand new RP high flow cat, cleaned the maf and intake out, the compression tested out at 7.0 on both rotors at the corrected rpm, zoom cleaner was done, and tried premixing.

MAP REQUEST: I'd like all CEL's enabled please. Idle MOP injection seems to cause smoke if its over 7 so please limit the increase accordingly. I occasionally have to deal with valet parking so i'd like raising the warm-up rev limit at 5500rpms to about 120 def F.

(data attached)
------------------------------------------------------------


-----------------------------------------------------
2-5-2009

"received"
----------------------------------------------


------------------------------------------------------
2-16-2009
Updated calibration attached. Repeat instructions below to verify fueling correction.



Thanks!
------------------------------------------------------

2-20-2009


.... i didn't notice really any changes to the afr's from the base map....

(datalogs attached... well i thought anyway)
---------------------------------------------------


3-1-2009

Logs?

--------------------------------------------------------

3-1-2009
sonufabitch

(logs sent)
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3-6-2009
This e-mail is sent to ALL MazdaManiac Cobb AccessPORT customers that are enrolled in the Custom Calibration Service.

Because of the recent updates to the AccessPORT firmware and the difficulties experienced by some users in understanding and completing the calibration process, I felt it would be useful to again provide the instruction set to those using the Calibration Service, even if you have already progressed well into the process or have completed it.

If you have had your car dyno-tuned and/or it is running at full potential, there is no need to request further calibration updates.



New users should begin the process in section “A” of this e-mail.

If you are already at a calibration level above v4.0.1, you can advance to section “B” of this e-mail and continue to submit your logs and calibrations as instructed in the follow-up e-mails that accompany each successive calibration level.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3-27-2009

calibration sent by jeff
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4-12-2009 datalogs submitted
4-12-2009 "received" email
4-14-2009 calibartion 3 sent

---BHR coil adjustment needs announced----

4-19-2009 datalogs submitted

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Monday, May 11, 2009, 9:41 PM

Hey –

Do you realize that you are at the one year and 3 month point on your 6 month contract?

Lol

Thanks.
-Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------
5-11-2009
Give me one that works and i'll be done?

--------------------------------------------------------------------

5-11-2009

One that works? WTF are you talking about?

You are on your v4.0.3 and you keep sending me logs for idle, cruise and WOT that are already properly set up.

What are you expecting?

All your AFRs are spot on. There is nothing left to do with this.
---------------------------------------------------------------

throw in some retarded comments on the BHR thread and me working with him in December on some spreadsheets and thats the "saga"


and the final results of 15 months
AFR RPM
13.82 3678
13.96 3818
14.11 3956
14.26 4072
14.7 4222
14.41 4372
13.82 4517
13.67 4669
13.67 4798
13.96 4968
13.67 5134
12.94 5289
12.49 5459
12.05 5656
12.05 5802
12.2 5932
12.35 6111
12.35 6271
12.35 6373
12.49 6574
13.38 6689
13.08 6843
12.79 6990
12.64 7137
12.64 7314
12.05 7466
11.91 7609
12.49 7758
12.49 7848
12.2 8046
12.35 8121
12.2 8286
12.05 8450
11.91 8557
11.76 8645
11.47 8817
12.05 8910
12.35 8922

and i'll top it off with this
https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...&postcount=561

Todd, are you sure about that claim about the AP increasing motor longevity? I could've sworn that MM has said that it should be expected and accepted that tuning for increased performance will not only shorten cat life but engine life as well. So many threads and posts have been deleted, I can't say for sure that I'm remembering that correctly. I understand that increasing OMP output is good, akin to premix, in protecting seals, but won't the leaner a:f ratios generally increase temperatures?

Rob, I responded to your PM but I'll post a little bit here.

It could be said that you should expect reduced engine life when you increase motor performance. However, in the case of a naturally aspirated motor there are so many factors at play that it's impossible to directly link engine failure to performance increases. Things like environmental conditions, fluid qualtiy and change intervals, driving style etc. are all things that effect engine life.

Leaner air/fuel ratios result in higher exhaust gas temperatures which can BBQ your cat if you don't take that factor into consideration. That's why MM will tune for an 11.9 - 12.2 air/fuel when a cat is present.

I have only my own car as an example that my beliefs are true. I just crossed 80,000 miles on my factor motor, factory tranny and factory clutch. I have about 15 autocross events and 3 road course track events that I've used my car for as well. The car has also seen 3 hot Phoenix summers.

Reminds me of the line from Alice's Restaurant:

"Kid, we only got one question. Have you ever been arrested?"

Best $700 you will spend on this car.

Even if you don't feel the results, hopefully you'll know them.