Cobb Stage 1 Tune Unsafe?
3-wheeler
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,734
Likes: 1
From: Phoenix
I honestly don't know how to respond to the above posts....
You know very well its screwed up, yet you don't care and blame it on working on the vehicle tested or "calibrations"?
The above posts have left me really disappointed to a degree that I don't think you can understand...
thewird
You know very well its screwed up, yet you don't care and blame it on working on the vehicle tested or "calibrations"?
The above posts have left me really disappointed to a degree that I don't think you can understand...
thewird
As such, if you are concerned about their tune please feel free to contact them and provide such corrections. I don't know a single RX8 owner that bought the accessPORT for Cobbs Stage 1 tune because that tune does not address any of the issues the RX8 has such as OMP injection, fan temps and CEL codes.
The solution is very simple: Don't use the stage 1 map. That's it!
Start with a stock map, take logs, make changes and keep doing that until you have a tune that does what you want. It's not that no one cares the map is junk, it's that no one buys the accessPORT for Cobb's maps. They buy it to have a professional custom tune their car or tune it themselves.
Last edited by Flashwing; Jan 20, 2010 at 05:48 PM.
Thread Starter
Registered
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 492
Likes: 2
From: Toronto, Canada
Wird, I'm unsure what your true objective is here. Are you interested in tuning your RX8 or interested in correcting the product produced by a company? Cobb markets the accessPORT as an "at your own risk" device and does not claim any responsibility for its use.
As such, if you are concerned about their tune please feel free to contact them and provide such corrections. I don't know a single RX8 owner that bought the accessPORT for Cobbs Stage 1 tune because that tune does not address any of the issues the RX8 has such as OMP injection, fan temps and CEL codes.
The solution is very simple: Don't use the stage 1 map. That's it!
Start with a stock map, take logs, make changes and keep doing that until you have a tune that does what you want. It's not that no one cares the map is junk, it's that no one buys the accessPORT for Cobb's maps. They buy it to have a professional custom tune their car or tune it themselves.
As such, if you are concerned about their tune please feel free to contact them and provide such corrections. I don't know a single RX8 owner that bought the accessPORT for Cobbs Stage 1 tune because that tune does not address any of the issues the RX8 has such as OMP injection, fan temps and CEL codes.
The solution is very simple: Don't use the stage 1 map. That's it!
Start with a stock map, take logs, make changes and keep doing that until you have a tune that does what you want. It's not that no one cares the map is junk, it's that no one buys the accessPORT for Cobb's maps. They buy it to have a professional custom tune their car or tune it themselves.
I did intend to contact them from the start but I was trying to gather the 2006+ maps to see if they had the same issue before it was sidetracked on how the stage 1 map sucks and shouldn't be used. So I guess I'll go ahead and contact them with the 2004-2005 map info. I still think its just a matter of them uploading the wrong map with the wrong name.
thewird
Last edited by thewird; Jan 20, 2010 at 06:02 PM.
Registered
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,932
Likes: 0
From: Hunterdon County
thewird, read this post again. It may be surprising but it goes a long way toward why MM and his custom tunes are so popular here:
Well, that, and his avatars too, of course!
I don't disagree - but you are talking about the stock Mazda calibration, which does work on every car.
There is no good way to make an OTS "tuned" calibration for the RX-8 because there is so much variation in the feedback and input.
That is why there is so much variation in the logging of a stock calibration and why Mazda made it so "safe".
Cobb's OTS can't be fixed because they are not broken. They work perfectly, but only on the car they were created for and none other.
I have well over 300 calibrations out there for NA RX-8s. Way more than anybody, including Cobb. They are all totally different, some radically different.
Even on mostly or completely stock RX-8s, the variation in MAF calibration and lambda targets from car to car is staggering.
There is no good way to make an OTS "tuned" calibration for the RX-8 because there is so much variation in the feedback and input.
That is why there is so much variation in the logging of a stock calibration and why Mazda made it so "safe".
Cobb's OTS can't be fixed because they are not broken. They work perfectly, but only on the car they were created for and none other.
I have well over 300 calibrations out there for NA RX-8s. Way more than anybody, including Cobb. They are all totally different, some radically different.
Even on mostly or completely stock RX-8s, the variation in MAF calibration and lambda targets from car to car is staggering.
Cobb should take down that map, and just leave the limp mode map for when you leave your car at the airport for a week. 
The RX8 is finicky for sure. the MAF's are all over the place as are the injectors...
Use a tuner like Jeff, (who I highly endorse) or Racing Beat. But even RB will not be able to throw a blanket over the parking lot of 8's. Seek out a tuner if you have modified your 8.
The RX8 is finicky for sure. the MAF's are all over the place as are the injectors...
Use a tuner like Jeff, (who I highly endorse) or Racing Beat. But even RB will not be able to throw a blanket over the parking lot of 8's. Seek out a tuner if you have modified your 8.
3-wheeler
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,734
Likes: 1
From: Phoenix
For your first question, both really? I've always been a community person and try to help whenever I can. That is why I am so upset at the feedback I'm getting from trying to fix something that is obviously wrong.
I did intend to contact them from the start but I was trying to gather the 2006+ maps to see if they had the same issue before it was sidetracked on how the stage 1 map sucks and shouldn't be used. So I guess I'll go ahead and contact them with the 2004-2005 map info. I still think its just a matter of them uploading the wrong map with the wrong name.
thewird
I did intend to contact them from the start but I was trying to gather the 2006+ maps to see if they had the same issue before it was sidetracked on how the stage 1 map sucks and shouldn't be used. So I guess I'll go ahead and contact them with the 2004-2005 map info. I still think its just a matter of them uploading the wrong map with the wrong name.
thewird
I've seen people report that they tried the map and it worked fine. Others like myself (I have a 2005 as well) have lean issues with it. In all instaces these maps are "at your own risk". Mazdamaniac is right on the money stating the problem is the large variations between RX8's.
I've recalled several instaces where Mazdamaniac has told me he's seen close to half a dozen different types of RX8's in his calibration creation. There's huge variances in injector flows, engine compression and so on. This means you cannot simply use a map from one RX8 on another without taking serious risks.
If you want to make it a mission to fix problems for COBB I certainly won't stop you. I would prefer to devote resources to getting people the best possible tune. The COBB stage 1 map is FAR from a good tune and would still be junk even if the fueling worked properly.
I've tried to convince Christian, Trey or Brandon to include my "backwards throttle" map in the package, but they declined.
Indeed!
3-wheeler
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,734
Likes: 1
From: Phoenix
I found it funny that you would criticize the vehicle Cobb used as being defective even though you really have nothing to base that on and haven't provided anything to back up the effectiveness of your own. 
Thread Starter
Registered
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 492
Likes: 2
From: Toronto, Canada
thewird
Originally Posted by Nemesis8
But even RB will not be able to throw a blanket over the parking lot of 8's.
You send in your ECU and they flash it rather than tune the car.
I zoom therefore I am.
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,919
Likes: 12
From: San Jose, CA
I agree, you're not accussing them, you blatantly stated numerous times that everyone else but you is f'd up as if it's a fact. Below is just one of many statements by you that back it up
I honestly don't know how to respond to the above posts....
You know very well its screwed up, yet you don't care and blame it on working on the vehicle tested or "calibrations"? Have you even looked at the stage 1 map? The ONLY change in fuel is the table I have screenshoted. Every other table that effects fuel and the MAF calibration is 100% unchanged, a direct copy of the stock map. The only change is that fuel map, leading ignition (barely), and trailing ignition. No other changes are made to that map at all.
Leaving the benefit of the doubt, if what you say is true that the map worked on a specific car. Then that car must have had some fuel upgrades as the tendency for cars is to lose fuel capacity over time, not increase it. In which case it doesn't fall under the requirements of the map and should not be listed as such. The fact that you say the Stage 1 map doesn't work on any car, emphasizes this even more.
The above posts have left me really disappointed to a degree that I don't think you can understand...
thewird
You know very well its screwed up, yet you don't care and blame it on working on the vehicle tested or "calibrations"? Have you even looked at the stage 1 map? The ONLY change in fuel is the table I have screenshoted. Every other table that effects fuel and the MAF calibration is 100% unchanged, a direct copy of the stock map. The only change is that fuel map, leading ignition (barely), and trailing ignition. No other changes are made to that map at all.
Leaving the benefit of the doubt, if what you say is true that the map worked on a specific car. Then that car must have had some fuel upgrades as the tendency for cars is to lose fuel capacity over time, not increase it. In which case it doesn't fall under the requirements of the map and should not be listed as such. The fact that you say the Stage 1 map doesn't work on any car, emphasizes this even more.
The above posts have left me really disappointed to a degree that I don't think you can understand...
thewird