AccesTuner Race....Questions & Discussion
I'm going to subscribe to try and learn something, but after reading this thread and hardly understanding anything being discussed, I feel like an idiot 
Is there a starting point for me? Like from an "intro to tuning" or "tuning for dummies" perspective? I bought my AP used without MM's maps and I was hoping to learn enough over the winter to get a decent NA tune going on my own. I haven't started using the Accesstuner software yet because I want to get a basic understanding of what I can/should do with it before I go in and screw it up I wish I had bought my AP from MM, but it was a local purchase from a friend and he kinda needed the money at the time to buy a turbo kit. Anyway, sorry for the long-winded post, carry on and I'll try to learn what I can
Is there a starting point for me? Like from an "intro to tuning" or "tuning for dummies" perspective? I bought my AP used without MM's maps and I was hoping to learn enough over the winter to get a decent NA tune going on my own. I haven't started using the Accesstuner software yet because I want to get a basic understanding of what I can/should do with it before I go in and screw it up I wish I had bought my AP from MM, but it was a local purchase from a friend and he kinda needed the money at the time to buy a turbo kit. Anyway, sorry for the long-winded post, carry on and I'll try to learn what I can 
Forgive me if this has already been addressed.
I downloaded and installed Race when it initially came out and was able to build my own "valet" mode map. Since then a number of enhancements have been made but I have not updated out of fear of not being able to maintain my old "valet" map.
Before you point out that I can just use the Cobb valet map, or base Cobb maps, bear in mind that I'm a 4AT and no base Cobb maps have been released for it.
I know that Jeff had a number of issues as he went from one version of Race to another (and I even know the details on what the source of some of those issues were). With that said, what is the likelihood of survivability of an early release built map if I upgrade to the latest and greatest version of Race?
I'm not asking about upgrading and/or modifying MM maps. I understand the copyright restrictions there and I would never jeopordize the integrity of his hard work but I would also like to know if I can still use his older maps with the newer versions of the AP firmware? I invested a significant amount of time and money into working with MM to ensure I had a well tuned map and would rather avoid having to go through that again... besides I'm approaching (if not already there) the end of my subscription.
Thanks in advance,
Shell
I downloaded and installed Race when it initially came out and was able to build my own "valet" mode map. Since then a number of enhancements have been made but I have not updated out of fear of not being able to maintain my old "valet" map.
Before you point out that I can just use the Cobb valet map, or base Cobb maps, bear in mind that I'm a 4AT and no base Cobb maps have been released for it.
I know that Jeff had a number of issues as he went from one version of Race to another (and I even know the details on what the source of some of those issues were). With that said, what is the likelihood of survivability of an early release built map if I upgrade to the latest and greatest version of Race?
I'm not asking about upgrading and/or modifying MM maps. I understand the copyright restrictions there and I would never jeopordize the integrity of his hard work but I would also like to know if I can still use his older maps with the newer versions of the AP firmware? I invested a significant amount of time and money into working with MM to ensure I had a well tuned map and would rather avoid having to go through that again... besides I'm approaching (if not already there) the end of my subscription.
Thanks in advance,
Shell
Last edited by ShellDude; Dec 27, 2008 at 10:02 AM.
I might be confusing versions, Jeff. I'm referring to the public beta version and had assumed with the firmware update(s) that a new version(s) was/were released. I think I have the initial version that was pulled.
I want to do the firmware and software upgrades but am worried that I may corrupt my existing maps, including the spot on AFR map you made for me up in Canada way back when.
I want to do the firmware and software upgrades but am worried that I may corrupt my existing maps, including the spot on AFR map you made for me up in Canada way back when.
Last edited by ShellDude; Dec 27, 2008 at 01:19 PM.
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From: QLD .au
I'm having trouble with erratic A/F readings and my car is running lean it's set for a lambda of 1 on the light load low rpm region but it's dancing up to 15 and above and is very erratic. my MAF g/s look very stable and my LFT is between 2 and -2% and has recently gone to 0% on the last few drive cycles.
apart from a small vacuum leak but I'm having trouble tracking it down, I think my MAF may need some tuning.
any suggestions?
apart from a small vacuum leak but I'm having trouble tracking it down, I think my MAF may need some tuning.
any suggestions?
I'm having trouble with erratic A/F readings and my car is running lean it's set for a lambda of 1 on the light load low rpm region but it's dancing up to 15 and above and is very erratic. my MAF g/s look very stable and my LFT is between 2 and -2% and has recently gone to 0% on the last few drive cycles.
First of all, you have it "set" for a lambda of 1? How is it "set"?
Second, "it's dancing up to 15 and above"? 15 what? Lambda? What are you talking about?
How can you have "stable" MAF readings and a small vacuum leak?
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,802
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From: QLD .au
You follow this question with this statement:
And you are serious?
First of all, you have it "set" for a lambda of 1? How is it "set"?
Second, "it's dancing up to 15 and above"? 15 what? Lambda? What are you talking about?
How can you have "stable" MAF readings and a small vacuum leak?
And you are serious?
First of all, you have it "set" for a lambda of 1? How is it "set"?
Second, "it's dancing up to 15 and above"? 15 what? Lambda? What are you talking about?
How can you have "stable" MAF readings and a small vacuum leak?
I think there is a leak as it squeals like a pig and the LFT is moving from -2 back to 0% and I have a feeling it will go + shortly trying to compensate. I think my leak is after the maf and after the throttle but before the compressor. but I can't find the bugger
and it could just be the throttle plate whistling. the fuel maps refer to lambda hence a value of one in the map is about 14.7 A/F. at load values where it should be lambda 1 or 14.7 mine is fluctuating between 14.4 to 15 A/F and higher.
my MAF looks stable there is little fluctuation in g/s but I have no idea of what "little" is just that my logged g/s is flat and not erratic apart from when I crack the throttle from idle. while the MAF readings are stable my a/f is bouncing around. maybe it's normal for <3000rpm cruise closed loop?
I posted the following over at Cobb being the armchair tuner that I am. Take that to mean I'm quite the amateur and there's still a lot I haven't actually messed with, because I have no need. But I've read through their pdf a couple times and have been able to make some interpretations.
I don't believe watching g/s alone is going to give you a good indication of how your MAF is performing. You need to see where your trims (FT) are at various voltages (throttle) settings.
So this someone over at the Cobb forums said their STFT is -12 and their LTFT is -6. They wanted to know how to tune that down to zero (or close to it knowing that it'll always fluctuate a bit). Anyway, here was my input -- I'm also posting it here to gather feedback / validation / you're going to blow up your car type feedback:
I don't believe watching g/s alone is going to give you a good indication of how your MAF is performing. You need to see where your trims (FT) are at various voltages (throttle) settings.
So this someone over at the Cobb forums said their STFT is -12 and their LTFT is -6. They wanted to know how to tune that down to zero (or close to it knowing that it'll always fluctuate a bit). Anyway, here was my input -- I'm also posting it here to gather feedback / validation / you're going to blow up your car type feedback:
The PDF documentation covers the MAF calibration procedure fairly well. I, fortunately, haven't had to do any MAF adjustments but if I had a 3rd party intake I think I could work through it given Cobbs documentation.
I'll try to summarize (but be sure to read my last two paragraphs).
Start your engine and monitor your coolant temp, STFT, LTFT, and MAF Voltage using the Race dashboard.
Allow it to idle until the coolant temperature reaches 180-190F. (car is at operating temperature)
Power down and Clear / Reset your ECU
Start you car back up and re-monitor your idle settings. Note the MAF voltage and the average STFT and LTFT values that are generated over a couple minutes time. They might fluctuate a bit. What is important is to recognize what their typical value is after a couple minutes time of idling at temperature.
Add the typical STFT and LTFT values together. In your case it's -18 (-12 STFT + -6 LTFT).
Convert the combined -18 FT into a decimal value. For example, -18% of 100% is 82% or a decimal value of .82
Assuming your idle MAF voltage is between 1.2 and 1.28, you'll want to go into the table for that setting, press the "M" key, and enter a value of .82
Repeat the same procedure for each voltage range (COBB recommends using a dynometer - you may be able to do it by just cruising around the block at different speeds)
Now, the REAL question is what could possibly be decreasing your Air flow to the point that the MAF has to be recalibrated to expect 18% less air than it would under "normal" circumstances. Check and clean your MAF sensor, check and clean your Air Filter, etc, etc.
If you're not running a stock intake then perhaps you should consider going back to one (unless you're FI and it isn't feasible).
Proceed at your own risk. I take no responsibility for what happens to your car based on my interpretation of the manual. I would hate for you to have detonation (or other) issues as a result of my feedback.
I'll try to summarize (but be sure to read my last two paragraphs).
Start your engine and monitor your coolant temp, STFT, LTFT, and MAF Voltage using the Race dashboard.
Allow it to idle until the coolant temperature reaches 180-190F. (car is at operating temperature)
Power down and Clear / Reset your ECU
Start you car back up and re-monitor your idle settings. Note the MAF voltage and the average STFT and LTFT values that are generated over a couple minutes time. They might fluctuate a bit. What is important is to recognize what their typical value is after a couple minutes time of idling at temperature.
Add the typical STFT and LTFT values together. In your case it's -18 (-12 STFT + -6 LTFT).
Convert the combined -18 FT into a decimal value. For example, -18% of 100% is 82% or a decimal value of .82
Assuming your idle MAF voltage is between 1.2 and 1.28, you'll want to go into the table for that setting, press the "M" key, and enter a value of .82
Repeat the same procedure for each voltage range (COBB recommends using a dynometer - you may be able to do it by just cruising around the block at different speeds)
Now, the REAL question is what could possibly be decreasing your Air flow to the point that the MAF has to be recalibrated to expect 18% less air than it would under "normal" circumstances. Check and clean your MAF sensor, check and clean your Air Filter, etc, etc.
If you're not running a stock intake then perhaps you should consider going back to one (unless you're FI and it isn't feasible).
Proceed at your own risk. I take no responsibility for what happens to your car based on my interpretation of the manual. I would hate for you to have detonation (or other) issues as a result of my feedback.
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From: QLD .au
your saying that your flow is only 82% of what is really there but then you ignore what percentage of the voltage this is and plug .82 in to that calibration.
shouldn't you average 1.2 and 1.28 then find 82% of that voltage and use that number (1.02v)?
oh gawd, this has fail written all over it, lol. That's a Cobb procedure, man, slightly reworded at most
I believe the idea is to get the MAF calibrated to the voltage because the table is based on voltage... and voltage loosely translates to RPM.
I believe the idea is to get the MAF calibrated to the voltage because the table is based on voltage... and voltage loosely translates to RPM.
Last edited by ShellDude; Dec 28, 2008 at 05:43 PM.
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From: QLD .au
I just read the cobb procedure and compared it to my maf calibration (hymee's scanalyser pro tuner) and I can't see how it would work.
at a voltage of 1.25V I have a g/s value of 6.0029. if I applied cobs 1.06 that is way less air flow not a 6% increase.
then I checked the maf calibration in accesstuner and it has exactly the same calibration at 1.25v, 6g/s.
then I realized what the press the M key is a multiply in accesstuner lol i'm not familiar with the software.
at a voltage of 1.25V I have a g/s value of 6.0029. if I applied cobs 1.06 that is way less air flow not a 6% increase.
then I checked the maf calibration in accesstuner and it has exactly the same calibration at 1.25v, 6g/s.
then I realized what the press the M key is a multiply in accesstuner lol i'm not familiar with the software.
As I was absorbing the calibration procedure it brought me back to your old baseline maps. I was fairly certain afterwards that was what you'd done out of the gate... adjusted the MAF "scale" (I'm not sure if scale is appropriate but it sounds good) across all voltages based on gawd only knows what variations exist in the wild.
Yup, you got it. Up until yesterday i didn't know there was a Multiply function either.
then I realized what the press the M key is a multiply in accesstuner lol i'm not familiar with the software
Last edited by ShellDude; Dec 28, 2008 at 06:19 PM.
I zoom therefore I am.
Joined: Mar 2007
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From: San Jose, CA
I'm actually suprised a "I blew up my engine" thread hasn't happened yet. I guess people who drop money for an AP and own an 8 are actually more careful then the avg subbie guy since they seem to blow up their engines with the AP + self tuning all the time.
As has been stated many times in the thread.. be careful with everything you change with the software.
As has been stated many times in the thread.. be careful with everything you change with the software.
Winter helps. (Low IATs.)
It is more difficult to blow up an NA RX-8 with fuel changes alone - and most people aren't playing with ignition timing, yet.
I think for the most part, people are "reverse engineering" from what they can understand in my revelations and then working somewhat incrementally.
There are only a few people that are actually really using the RACE software for calibrations they will load into their PCM, anyway.
It is more difficult to blow up an NA RX-8 with fuel changes alone - and most people aren't playing with ignition timing, yet.
I think for the most part, people are "reverse engineering" from what they can understand in my revelations and then working somewhat incrementally.
There are only a few people that are actually really using the RACE software for calibrations they will load into their PCM, anyway.
Winter helps. (Low IATs.)
It is more difficult to blow up an NA RX-8 with fuel changes alone - and most people aren't playing with ignition timing, yet.
I think for the most part, people are "reverse engineering" from what they can understand in my revelations and then working somewhat incrementally.
There are only a few people that are actually really using the RACE software for calibrations they will load into their PCM, anyway.
It is more difficult to blow up an NA RX-8 with fuel changes alone - and most people aren't playing with ignition timing, yet.
I think for the most part, people are "reverse engineering" from what they can understand in my revelations and then working somewhat incrementally.
There are only a few people that are actually really using the RACE software for calibrations they will load into their PCM, anyway.
There's only one map that I can work from, the base 4AT one COBB provides, and for me to do anything beyond valet / anti-theft stuff means I'm giving up my MM map, and to do that would be plain stupid at this juncture.
If I needed any real work done I'd rely on a real tuner, or at the very least, write a novel on the forums looking for validation prior to committing it. There's so much to learn here for me and the price tag if I screw something up is daunting.
The Local Idiot
Joined: May 2008
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From: Big D, Texas
I'm actually suprised a "I blew up my engine" thread hasn't happened yet. I guess people who drop money for an AP and own an 8 are actually more careful then the avg subbie guy since they seem to blow up their engines with the AP + self tuning all the time.
As has been stated many times in the thread.. be careful with everything you change with the software.
As has been stated many times in the thread.. be careful with everything you change with the software.
The "stock" flash Cobb provides is a pretty safe starting point. I've intentionally tried doing foolish things to see how the PCM would react, and the car ran surprisingly well. If you're NA tuning, and not messing with timing, you'd have to do something pretty stupid to blow up your engine.
The Local Idiot
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 406
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From: Big D, Texas
I've intentionally screwed up my MAF calibration and injector scaling, and the car still ran fine. Fuel trims were through the roof, but it was still hitting the desired AFR targets. After a while I was more worried about affecting the calculated load enough to put the timing in the crapper than anything else.
Obviously I'm not recommending that anybody else tries this, I'm just saying that even for somebody like me that only has half a clue it seems pretty hard to mess things up catastrophically.
Obviously I'm not recommending that anybody else tries this, I'm just saying that even for somebody like me that only has half a clue it seems pretty hard to mess things up catastrophically.
