DIY: Starter Change Swap (for dummies)
Thread Starter
"13B vs. Renesis" Discuss
iTrader: (28)
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,399
Likes: 3
From: Canton, OH
Problems with hot starts could be an indication of low compression. Having only had the car a short time, you wouldn't notice the gradual power-loss from an engine that, when it heats up, it will lose compression.
Most dealers charge $75-$100 bucks for a compression test. If the engine fails, then its covered under warranty to replace the engine core.
If its not low compression, I'd get the new starter and see how that helps.
Most dealers charge $75-$100 bucks for a compression test. If the engine fails, then its covered under warranty to replace the engine core.
If its not low compression, I'd get the new starter and see how that helps.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Thanks for the quick reply Vyndictive.
Okay a couple question based on what you have said. The engine does not take long to start when hot... 4/5 it starts fine when hot. 1/4 times happens to be when i re-fuel so im thinking it may not be the compression. Do you think it could be anything to do with the fuel pump.
2. you mentioned if it fails a compression test the core will be replaced under warranty. Will it still be replaced under warranty even though it is a 2004. I did not buy it from a dealer :S
3. I have found a used starter motor of a 2007 with only 30k miles. This is the part number given: N3H118400A : Could you tell me if this is the upgraded higher power starter? I was slightly confused as it had numbers in between the one you quoted "N3H1~A"
Again thanks for the help.
Okay a couple question based on what you have said. The engine does not take long to start when hot... 4/5 it starts fine when hot. 1/4 times happens to be when i re-fuel so im thinking it may not be the compression. Do you think it could be anything to do with the fuel pump.
2. you mentioned if it fails a compression test the core will be replaced under warranty. Will it still be replaced under warranty even though it is a 2004. I did not buy it from a dealer :S
3. I have found a used starter motor of a 2007 with only 30k miles. This is the part number given: N3H118400A : Could you tell me if this is the upgraded higher power starter? I was slightly confused as it had numbers in between the one you quoted "N3H1~A"
Again thanks for the help.
Thread Starter
"13B vs. Renesis" Discuss
iTrader: (28)
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,399
Likes: 3
From: Canton, OH
If it only does it after refueling, there could be a fuel pump issue, but it should be the opposite... poor starts with less than half a tank...
Look again at the pictures of the part numbers of the upgraded and non upgraded starters. I don't know by the part number you listed if its the upgraded one or not. I think it is, but I don't want to have your purchase it and then be wrong.
Look again at the pictures of the part numbers of the upgraded and non upgraded starters. I don't know by the part number you listed if its the upgraded one or not. I think it is, but I don't want to have your purchase it and then be wrong.
Registered
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 236
Likes: 0
From: Portland, OR
Thanks for the quick reply Vyndictive.
Okay a couple question based on what you have said. The engine does not take long to start when hot... 4/5 it starts fine when hot. 1/4 times happens to be when i re-fuel so im thinking it may not be the compression. Do you think it could be anything to do with the fuel pump.
2. you mentioned if it fails a compression test the core will be replaced under warranty. Will it still be replaced under warranty even though it is a 2004. I did not buy it from a dealer :S
3. I have found a used starter motor of a 2007 with only 30k miles. This is the part number given: N3H118400A : Could you tell me if this is the upgraded higher power starter? I was slightly confused as it had numbers in between the one you quoted "N3H1~A"
Again thanks for the help.
Okay a couple question based on what you have said. The engine does not take long to start when hot... 4/5 it starts fine when hot. 1/4 times happens to be when i re-fuel so im thinking it may not be the compression. Do you think it could be anything to do with the fuel pump.
2. you mentioned if it fails a compression test the core will be replaced under warranty. Will it still be replaced under warranty even though it is a 2004. I did not buy it from a dealer :S
3. I have found a used starter motor of a 2007 with only 30k miles. This is the part number given: N3H118400A : Could you tell me if this is the upgraded higher power starter? I was slightly confused as it had numbers in between the one you quoted "N3H1~A"
Again thanks for the help.
Also, if the starter is really from a 2007 car then you know for sure that it's the upgraded one, and the part number you listed proves that it is.
Last edited by BG-8; Apr 19, 2010 at 07:46 PM.
fastlane425
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
starte
fastlane425
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
starter
Well, buying a new upgraded starter may be a problem. I heard that mazda actually switched back to the weaker starters for the series 2, but I can't confirm this.
A re manufactured starter would probably be fine as long as it is indeed upgraded. (See the part numbers I referenced above)
A re manufactured starter would probably be fine as long as it is indeed upgraded. (See the part numbers I referenced above)
Thread Starter
"13B vs. Renesis" Discuss
iTrader: (28)
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,399
Likes: 3
From: Canton, OH
Fastlane: I'm kinda of confused by your questions...
The "longer" starter body, as seen in the pictures in the first post, are the upgraded starters. Regardless of if they're re-manufactured or not. I listed the part numbers on the first post also. If the starter you're buying is either of those product numbers as seen in the photos also, it'll be upgraded.
If you're asking about the battery fitting... meaning the optima red top or yellow top. they fit using the shims that come with the battery.
The "longer" starter body, as seen in the pictures in the first post, are the upgraded starters. Regardless of if they're re-manufactured or not. I listed the part numbers on the first post also. If the starter you're buying is either of those product numbers as seen in the photos also, it'll be upgraded.
If you're asking about the battery fitting... meaning the optima red top or yellow top. they fit using the shims that come with the battery.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
BG-8: you said "The warranty is 8years/100K miles" i think that is only in the US. i am in the UK... and have searched and found nothing of it other than US websites.
Vyndictive: coming back to the question about compression test... if it fails you said it is still under warranty to chnage the engine 'core'. Again does this matter if my car is on 2004 and i am in the UK where we only have 3 year warranty on our 8s. And i am over the warranty.
Thanks
Vyndictive: coming back to the question about compression test... if it fails you said it is still under warranty to chnage the engine 'core'. Again does this matter if my car is on 2004 and i am in the UK where we only have 3 year warranty on our 8s. And i am over the warranty.
Thanks
Registered
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 236
Likes: 0
From: Portland, OR
I'm sorry, I didn't know you were in UK. You are right about the warranty, as Alnielsen said, it's only for US and Canada. My bad, bro... yeah, you are out of warranty, your best bet is to try Mazda Zoom Engine Cleaner.
Thread Starter
"13B vs. Renesis" Discuss
iTrader: (28)
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,399
Likes: 3
From: Canton, OH
I know on the non-upgraded starter for sure that the Mitsubishi IS the OEM starter. I tried looking at my pix on the first page, but I couldn't confirm that the upgraded starter is also mitsubishi. But I would assume that it is.
Re-Read the first post in this thread where I go over the differences. If its the same part number, its not upgraded. You could always measure your non upgraded started and if you find one about an inch longer, its the one you want!
Re-Read the first post in this thread where I go over the differences. If its the same part number, its not upgraded. You could always measure your non upgraded started and if you find one about an inch longer, its the one you want!
Registered User
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Am getting a reply from onlinemazdaparts.com
If the starter on your vehicle has a "Z" in the part# then the starter I sell will spin at the same speed. If yours does not have a "Z" in the part# then the one you would buy from me would spin faster than the one on your car.
I double checked with my lead tech. The starter with the "Z" is the updated starter from the factory. The part supersession chain goes as such N3H118400A replaced by N3Z118400 which is now the N3H118400R0A (reman version of the N3Z118400)
Can someone confirm which is new and which is the old starter ?
I have 2004 Manual Rx8 my starter is N3H1.
Thanks
If the starter on your vehicle has a "Z" in the part# then the starter I sell will spin at the same speed. If yours does not have a "Z" in the part# then the one you would buy from me would spin faster than the one on your car.
I double checked with my lead tech. The starter with the "Z" is the updated starter from the factory. The part supersession chain goes as such N3H118400A replaced by N3Z118400 which is now the N3H118400R0A (reman version of the N3Z118400)
Can someone confirm which is new and which is the old starter ?
I have 2004 Manual Rx8 my starter is N3H1.
Thanks
Well, after swapping starters on a few different RX8's, and seeing some other request help on the subject, I've decided to post another "DIY for dummies"
Starter Swap for 04-08 Manual Trans cars:
Why: 04-05 cars were made with weak starters... mazda improved the starters from then on with beefier starter motors. So, if you have an 04-05, you'll want to upgrade yours someday.
Who: 04-05 manual trans owners. Or any series 1 that needs a starter
How: Find an 06 or new RX8. Listen to their starter, and then listen yours... if it sounds like yours is slower, you have an old starter (Or, if you want to get technical, your starter will have the part number "N3H1"... if you have "N3H1 A", that means you have an upgraded starter. The other product number for the upgraded starter is "N3Z1" which came from later model years.... The non-upgraded starters are also about an inch shorter than the upgraded ones.
Pic 1 is a non upgraded - pic 2, 3, and 4 are of the different upgraded starters
Mazmart, junk yards, eBay, and the FS forum are all good spots to pick up an upgraded starter. Prices range from $50 bucks from a junk yard to $300+ for a new one... I'm sure dealers charge more.
Begin DIY:
So you've purchased your upgraded starter and you're ready to put it on. Confirm that the product code is an upgraded starter and you're ready to do this.
Tools needed:
Jack
1 Jack stand
Metric Socket set (i did this a few months ago and don't remember each socket size) 10mm,12mm and maybe 14mm and socket extension are always good.
work light (for seeing under the car)
Time: If you're working fast, and have all the tools you need at hand, you can get this done in about 15-25 min. If you're messing with a camera and don't have a work light... plan on 45 min to an hour.
Starter Swap for 04-08 Manual Trans cars:
Why: 04-05 cars were made with weak starters... mazda improved the starters from then on with beefier starter motors. So, if you have an 04-05, you'll want to upgrade yours someday.
Who: 04-05 manual trans owners. Or any series 1 that needs a starter
How: Find an 06 or new RX8. Listen to their starter, and then listen yours... if it sounds like yours is slower, you have an old starter (Or, if you want to get technical, your starter will have the part number "N3H1"... if you have "N3H1 A", that means you have an upgraded starter. The other product number for the upgraded starter is "N3Z1" which came from later model years.... The non-upgraded starters are also about an inch shorter than the upgraded ones.
Pic 1 is a non upgraded - pic 2, 3, and 4 are of the different upgraded starters
Mazmart, junk yards, eBay, and the FS forum are all good spots to pick up an upgraded starter. Prices range from $50 bucks from a junk yard to $300+ for a new one... I'm sure dealers charge more.
Begin DIY:
So you've purchased your upgraded starter and you're ready to put it on. Confirm that the product code is an upgraded starter and you're ready to do this.
Tools needed:
Jack
1 Jack stand
Metric Socket set (i did this a few months ago and don't remember each socket size) 10mm,12mm and maybe 14mm and socket extension are always good.
work light (for seeing under the car)
Time: If you're working fast, and have all the tools you need at hand, you can get this done in about 15-25 min. If you're messing with a camera and don't have a work light... plan on 45 min to an hour.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
I havent replied to this thread in a while... probably because ive been having so much fun with my RX8 now that its starting correctly.
I just want to say to everyone that a new starter motor makes a world of difference for those with starter problems. I bought a genuine brand new N3Z1 (which cost a bomb) but was well worth it.
I just want to say to everyone that a new starter motor makes a world of difference for those with starter problems. I bought a genuine brand new N3Z1 (which cost a bomb) but was well worth it.
Thread Starter
"13B vs. Renesis" Discuss
iTrader: (28)
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,399
Likes: 3
From: Canton, OH
Am getting a reply from onlinemazdaparts.com
If the starter on your vehicle has a "Z" in the part# then the starter I sell will spin at the same speed. If yours does not have a "Z" in the part# then the one you would buy from me would spin faster than the one on your car.
I double checked with my lead tech. The starter with the "Z" is the updated starter from the factory. The part supersession chain goes as such N3H118400A replaced by N3Z118400 which is now the N3H118400R0A (reman version of the N3Z118400)
Can someone confirm which is new and which is the old starter ?
I have 2004 Manual Rx8 my starter is N3H1.
Thanks
If the starter on your vehicle has a "Z" in the part# then the starter I sell will spin at the same speed. If yours does not have a "Z" in the part# then the one you would buy from me would spin faster than the one on your car.
I double checked with my lead tech. The starter with the "Z" is the updated starter from the factory. The part supersession chain goes as such N3H118400A replaced by N3Z118400 which is now the N3H118400R0A (reman version of the N3Z118400)
Can someone confirm which is new and which is the old starter ?
I have 2004 Manual Rx8 my starter is N3H1.
Thanks
The other two part numbers should work out fine. Also, if you look at the pictures, you'll see the difference in size, which is much easier than worrying about part numbers.
^ there's no reason to remain in doubt. Just check your starter's serial number.
btw: Yes, I am going for the Guinness record on most times addressing the same question.
btw: Yes, I am going for the Guinness record on most times addressing the same question.
Owens-RX-8
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 371
Likes: 0
From: San Jose CA
ill check serial number this weekend. i tried last night but couldnt see it.
Also just thought Id throw this out there for people having starting problems, check your battery terminals, my negative battery terminal came right off when i went to put a jumper on it, it was the factory terminal, was fully tight and just came right off when i pulled on it, id recomend checking that and replacing it if neccessary if you are having problems with the car starting, i dont think the alternator was giving it a good charge sine the connection wasnt good
Also just thought Id throw this out there for people having starting problems, check your battery terminals, my negative battery terminal came right off when i went to put a jumper on it, it was the factory terminal, was fully tight and just came right off when i pulled on it, id recomend checking that and replacing it if neccessary if you are having problems with the car starting, i dont think the alternator was giving it a good charge sine the connection wasnt good
Registered
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
From: Pittsburgh, PA
That is the older bulletin. The new one is:
http://www.finishlineperformance.com...5-08-1883f.pdf
The new bulletin removed the starter replacement section and added a new warranty information at the end. I guess this is why they covered the decarb and spark plugs for my car (after 4 yr/48 mo), but did not change battery or starter.
^ Yes I know that, but only the older TSB listed the original starter serial number for 04's and early 05's and I was addressing J. Owens' "old or new starter" question.
So now I'm going for the record for answering questions resultant of the original qustion.
So now I'm going for the record for answering questions resultant of the original qustion.