PUR NRG

1. The boxes that both the front and rear springs came in say "0800" for free length.
2. The boxes themselves are the same overall size.
3. Neither boxes nor springs are 14" in length.
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Zx14 vs hayabusa

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

you need zero-rate helper springs and the guide that goes between it and suspension spring, four total of each, this keeps everything in place at full droop but immediately goes flat coil bind otherwise

http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?fo...action=product

http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?fo...action=product
\

edit: you can get better prices on these identical parts from Pegasus Racing

http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pro...p?Product=1876

http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pro...p?Product=1877


I'm not being disingenuous at all, it's called a ClubSport for a reason, it would be no different than trying to compare a Koni 3012 and a Koni 2812; both are great shocks but one is better and more expensive than the other for a reason. You warped it into a personal thing only because you happened to make that choice. Ease up son ...

shinronin

heh, sounds good, glad i'm just hallucinating. would've been nice if the springs had just been too long. i'm extra eager now to install the rears with my 7" rear springs to see how it fits up.

shinronin

fair enough. the 3012/motorsport vs. 2812/clubsport comparison is what i had in mind in the reply of mine you reference.

when you said the above i assumed you were going down the road of saying the clubsport was lesser compared to the 2812. my apologies if the adage about assuming applies here. i just didn't want to have this thread turn into a koni vs. moton flame war. and i didn't mean anything personal. if the motons don't work to my satisfaction over the course of this season and perhaps the next, i'll be more than happy to try to the 2812s.

savedsol

Pur Nrg, great site, shocks and install. Would you mind correcting the pictures on the brake pad/rotor install though? Gracias!

PUR NRG

I lost those pictures, and will take them again when I have to replace the pads.
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Toyota Starlet Gt Turbo History

PUR NRG

Oh, if you look at the first picture you'll see the springs have two lines of printing on them. The length/rate info is on the second line. The first line (with the "14..." you noticed) looks like a serial number.
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Box vaporizer

PUR NRG

Thanks for the pointer, but after looking at the spring dividers I have a question. It looks like the order from top to bottom should be original white spring perch, tender spring, spring divider, eibach spring. That means I would have to cut the bottom part of the white spring perch (that sits inside the spring) so it doesn't hit the spring divider when the tender spring is compressed. Furthermore, is the top lip of the spring divider shorter than the compressed height of the tender spring? If not, then wouldn't that still cause the spring perch and spring divider to hit each other?
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BMW X5 M HISTORY

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

just put it on the other end between the spring and the adjustable perch, it doesn't matter which end they're on, I put them on that side of my coilovers and the rears are inverted. In the rear for your Motons you'll have to do it that way because that top plasic perch simply butts up against the inner OE spring perch extension because the spring diameter is too small to slide past it. Frankly, I don't care for that approach, though it's not my intent to knock yours. There's always more than one way to skin a cat. I'll take a few pics of my 2812's this weekend so you can see the difference

looks to me like they did those white perches to keep the spring centered rather than use

Jason Saini

First off, you don't NEED flat-take up springs, they are just nice to have. I generally try to keep all four wheels on the ground at an autocross. For track use, they are much better since curb-hopping usually happens.

Second, since you've chosen to nitpick, I'll do the same. Comparing 3012 to Clubsport and 2812 to Motorsport dampers is completely invalid. The 3012 and 2812 use completely different damping technology, when the Clubsport and Motorsport dampers use the exact same damping technology at a different adjustment range. The savings in Club sports come from cheaper materials, standardized sizing (only certain lengths of CS body are available) for cheaper component pricing, less complex adjustment mechanisms, etc. The PISTON or the parts that matter are nearly identical.

Doug, I hope things are going well with your shocks... Pur NRG, thanks for posting that tutorial, that's very nicely done! You guys have covered many of the details, so I don't need to get involved there - unless you guys have any questions! Everyone feel free to email me with questions, as we're constantly on the road and I don't often have time to check here. It's jason@motorsportenterprisesracing.com

PUR NRG

For what it's worth, I corner-weighted the car, did an alignment and some test/tune with Vic Sias.

Corner-weight: 52% front, 48% rear, 51%/49% cross-weight balance.
Alignment: -1.8 degrees front and rear, 1/8" total toe out in front, 1/4" total toe in in rear.
Tires: 275 RT615s on all four corners.
Tire pressure: 32 psi front, 26(!) psi rear.
The fronts were at full stiffness in rebound, the rears were one click away from full stiff. Vic was able to get some oversteer at the limits, but I wasn't. (I was 1.5 seconds slower than him on a very bumpy 50 second course.) It looks like they could be revalved for more rebound stiffness--at least for my turbo car.

As for helper/flat-take up springs, I'd say if you change tires for an autocross then they'd come in handy there too.
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OG KUSH SEEDS

shinronin

who is this vic sias?

what compression settings are you running? i'm running front compression at full soft (0) and rear compression at 1. i'm playing with rebound now. the 35 profile tires i run (265/35-18 ad07s) apparently just don't have a lot of spring rate for shock compression to do its magic.

re: your tire pressures, did you take temps with a pyrometer to hit those pressures or just by feel/driver feedback? i'm running 38/34 on my ad07s which does seem high, but i'm getting good temps spreads from the pyrometer. my alignment is -2.0 all around presently, but i'm going to take the rear down to -1.0. more testing/data to come of course.

PUR NRG

Used a pyrometer. Originally had the rears at 30psi, but saw slightly higher temps in the middle of the tire. At 26psi the inside and middle sections were the same temp with the outer slightly cooler.
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Mazda bongo history

shinronin

hmm, interesting. and your compression settings?

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

just to recap; *less complex* adjustment mechanisms, *cheaper* materials and components, *nearly* identical piston and parts ....

but by no means was I attemtping to make an exact comparison because there is none in that brand line, nor was it my intention to imply that they're junk. As you have so elequently put it, a Clubsport is not the top of the line Moton Motorsport shock, that's all ... it's still heads and heals above most anything else out there. Moton is a true quality damper, whether Clubsport or Motorsport. My apology if it seemed it seemed that I was saying otherwise, rather I was trying to rationalize/understand the reasons behind some of the choices that were made.

However, at this past weekend's autox, of which many national level drivers were in attendance, there were plenty of fast cars getting a wheel or two off the ground. Some of these Moton cars that see street duty probably don't care for clunkety-clunk ride around town, but I concur that helper springs aren't absolutely required. It's simply a feature distinguished by the amount of money spent, because the additonal parts do have a cost associated to them as I previously linked to ....

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

putting the "my peepee is bigger and better than yours" BS aside

my optimum autox pressures on 9.5" wheels and the Advan 265-18 tire were the same as NRG. With the 10.5" wheels I had to drop down several psi to get back to optimum, no surprise there. The Advan sidewalls are extremely stiff, much stiffer the the RT-615. My experience is to go very easy on the compression. The Advan will overload and loose grip easily if you get too aggressive on the compression valving

shinronin

i appreciate the data points. i'll continue to take tire data at events and hopefully get to run a skidpad in the near future.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

be carefull using a pyrometer, it often misleads people ...

PUR NRG

Hmm. Turns out both compression and rebound are set identically. Full stiffness in front, one click away from full stiff in rear.
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Vaporizer Review

shinronin

heh, then you left a lot of time on your test + tune course with that much bump my friend.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

well that depends entirely on what your actual valving curves are, full stiff or full soft correlates to nothing meaningful in a general sense

and I thought you were using Falken RT-615 tires, not Yokohama Advan Neova AD07s

EDIT: Yes, you said 275 RT-615s, they have much softer sidewalls the the Advan Neova tire, whole different ball of wax there too ...

shinronin

i believe i finally found spanner wrenches that'll work with the round holes in the moton collars.

joe's racing
longacre

each uses a steel pin which is replaceable.

PUR NRG

Nifty. Thanks shinronin, I'll add that to my DIY.
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Bubbler pipe

shinronin

PUR NRG, here's another tidbit for your DIY. spring rates of 700/400 are needlessly stiff for autox. perhaps not for track. i'd recommend 600-650/300-325. also regarding spring free length, 7" is a better fit for the front than 8" and 6" for the rear instead of 7". team MER shipped me 8" x 2.5" ID x 700 fronts and 7" x 2.5" ID x 400 rears. i believe you had initially had 8" free lengths front and rear, right? i'd recommend passing the word to tony at tc design about the spring rates and free lengths to help out the next guy.

PUR NRG

Interesting news. How did you make that determination for spring rates?
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Plymouth Satellite History