Maximus

I am confused due to the above two statements

Did it or did it not happen :

1) BEFORE "L" reflash
2) BEFORE "L" reflash + CZ1.1

adrian-1

I'm thinking it happened "occassionaly" after installing stage 1, with no L reflash. And it's doing it more often AFTER L flash and Stage 1.1 upgrade.

Is this correct mdw33333?

Sea Ray

Ok folks, I have stage1.1 installed. It runs without clanking. A obvious kick in the pants. Above 6k it feels like I have a turbo kicking in. Seems like it has more torque in the lower rpm range because my shifts are jumpier than normal. I did a test drive with, and without, then back on again. It does sound different with it on, more whine, higher pitch to the motor. I did think I could here some pinging but it was at lower rpm vs higher.

I will take it to my service guy before driving it any harder and have it checked out just to make sure all is ok. But this will have to wait a couple weeks.

As for the installation, well like they say, its tight getting all the wires plugged back in. And even tighter getting the cover back on. I am not sure if I got it to seal 100% but I think so. And I did break off the switch while trying to get the lid snug, however by using the screw driver I could slide it on and off just fine. Actually a safer way since it doesn't stick out and risk being moved (or broke off) by accident.

More to follow after a more extensive test and hopefully dyno with and without.

mdw33333

Jesus Christ! People, please read this thread before posting. I'll say this ONE more time. My car ran great from the day I picked it up. I did things in this order:

Installed Borla Exhaust, result, car runs fine. Month later, installed Green filter, result, car runs fine. Month later, installed Canzoomer Stage 1, result, multiple occurances of detonation. I removed the Stage 1, and sent it back to Maurice for fixing (updating). While my unit was with CZ, my car ran fine once again. I got the reflash, varified it, and result, the car runs fine. I received my Stage 1.1 back from CZ yesterday, installed it, result, detonation.

What about this aren't you understanding. THE ONLY TIME IT HAS EVER HAPPENED IS WITH THE STAGE 1 OR 1.1 INSTALLED!!!

mdw33333

YES! THANK YOU FOR UNDERSTANDING!

93rdcurrent

I would be willing to test this out on my car. If CZ is ok with it. I am not at sea level but am about 1200 feet above. I will be willing to give CZ my credit card # if it makes him feel more comfortable. Let me know if this works for you guys. BTW I have stock exhaust and intake. No upgrades yet.

compaddict

Eeks. I would let that unit go back to Maurice for a check out.

Vince

Sea Ray

Guys I am at 984' elevation here in Ky.

Genom

OK, I see where I mis-read your original post. Sorry about that.

Never the less, of the current crop of cars showing problems it's still just 1 with the stage1, and 3 without. Looks like an issue with L that might get brought to the front with the changes a stage1 might put in on certain cars. We certainly have seen huge variations in overall numebrs for everybody.

At least I can say mine is running great. I just spent 45 minutes doing 1/4 mile runs with it turned on and turned off, and it didnt stutter at all.

Sea Ray

Genom,

Did you notice if it sounded different to you? Mine seems to sound higher pitched.

Genom

Yes, it is definitely a higher pitch. Also a bit louder above 6000RPM Sounds turbine like.

Rotary Extreme

I have seen a few blown N/A rotary engines due to improper tuning. And also even if it's not blown right away, the damage might have been done. I have seen numerous cars which were tuned improperly and have high knock reading. When the cars were brought in, they still ran. But after they are tuned to the right a/f ratio and ignition timing, the engines were blown a few months after. Why? The apex seals have been weaken and might have cracked a little already. They can't take the normal stress even though your engine have been tuned properly afterward.

And you better make sure you can hear the detonation. Not everyone knows what detonation sounds like. Obvioulsy the detonation is pretty bad that the stock knock sensor can't retard the timing enough to make it go away.

When you get a pre-programmed piggyback, make sure you tell the vendor exactly what's on your car and what you plan to do so he can provide you with the map to tailor those mods. If the map of the piggy back is already tuned to the safe limit, any changes on the flow characteristic of the intake and exhaust will affect the a/f. So if the piggy back is programmed for stock intake and exhaust, putting on an aftermarket intake and exhaust might cause the a/f to be too lean. It's even worse if you get a new reflash of the stock ecu which has a leaner map.


Chuck Huang

rudy8

once again chuck...sounds like good advice from experience.
thanks for your info and posting it. ps. i really love the intake you sold me. i insulated inside the box and that has helped the harsh level of noise for those who are not in race mode every day.
rudy 8

adrian-1

Genom, you said you had a gtech, correct? Is it the gtech pro or the first model? Please post your findings comparing stage 1.1 on vs off.

I've got a gtech pro and got my L flash today. Did a couple of hp/tq runs in 2nd gear a couple of days ago and going to go do some tonight to see if theres any difference. I'll post my findings tommorrow.

mdw33333

Thanks Chuck, that does make sense. CZ has the stock air filter, the Borla exhaust, the "L" reflash, and he is 3000 ft or so above sea level. I'm closer to sea level, and I'm running the Green drop in filter. Those are the differences, and possibly the reason this happened to me. Assuming that may be the case, I feel better without using an ECU upgrade at this point given these factors. I need, and we all need to have mods whre there is a little more margine allowed for changes we might make to the car.

It's not like I put a turbo on the car, for God's sake, I just dropped an air filter in and bolted on an exhaust. It is just as much the car's fault as it is the mod's. This Renisis is a picky son of a gun. It's really too touchy to mod (IMO).

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Why is this thread in two places?

adrian-1

There are multiple theads concering 'L' flash + canzoomer stage 1.1


Nevermind, I found no difference in power at all with my gtech pro. Here's the graph...
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...threadid=22951

racerdave

I dunno... a drop-in air filter does not seem like it should be a problem. You're using the stock airbox after all, and I wouldn't think the green filter would flow *that* much more air.

Weird. My $$ is on perhaps a faulty unit in someway. This just sounds too unusual compared to everyone else's experiences with L and 1.1, even at lower altitudes.

Be nice if Maurice took a shot at answering...

Magic8

I don't think the Renesis is any more difficult to mod than, say, a piston. I think engine tuning in general is a difficult thing to do. If it was easy, car companies wouldn't have to spend tens of millions of $$$ to develop an engine.

This is nothing new and is not specific to the Renesis. I remember the Subaru WRX STi would would have pinging/dentonation problems straight from the factory ! They had to fix it with a ECU reflash.


People should understand that this type of thing happens when you decide to be an "early adopter."

oosik

I know the Air Station is 18" above sea level, so i'd say your pretty close. :D

Reeko

I think there is a way to get your eleveation using the Nav system. The hidden menus show your exact poition and elevation.

mdw33333

My Stage 1.1 went back to Canzoomer today, and even though their are issues with the mod, CZ's service is top notch (IMO). He's refunding me for my Stage 1.1 and he is doing so very respectably. He's a pleasure to talk to and deal with.

By the way, for those who are interested, he stated that he "wasn't sure" what was wrong with my mod. He couldn't really do anything without my vehicle to test.

hac

mdw33333 I was really hoping your problem was something simpleto do with the flash like mine. Sorry. I took mine back and service tech said I did have a detonation problem. They checked it out and found that something in the program didn't take correctly. He said it was their fault. They should have checked it as per the Mazda forms said. They re-flashed it again and I have had no more problems.
I did get a tank of gas and a free oild change out of the deal.
Ah...it's nice to get 19 to 21mpg on the highway now. No difference in performance but does seem (in my mind) to run smoother. Also made the exhaust a "little" bit quieter. (so my wife said)

RX-8 friend

I would suspect one of two things happened:

1. A fault in the unit. Unlikely as the car ran, but still possible.

2. You are close to sea level, so you have lots of O2 which translates to slightly lean. You caused the mixture to lean a bit more by installing the exhaust. You caused it to lean a bit more still by installing the intake. It was leaned a bit more again by the "L" flash. Then you installed the Stage 1 box, which may have pushed it just a bit too much.

You have now seen how good the PCM is at protecting the renesis from detonation. Was what you heard detonation? I doubt it. It is more subtle. Kind of like shaking a can with bolts in it. I suspect what you heard was the noise generated when you suddenly yank the timing to full retard (any play in the engine gearing will be taken up with a bump or clang). This is what the new detonation prevention system does. Those of us with 3rd gen RX-7s sure wish it was built into our cars!

If I'm correct in my (long distance) evaluation, this is exactly what Maurice has been worried about. Someone will find the combination of mods. that lean the engine too much. I suspect if you put the stock air filter back in the Stage 1 would be fine. Oh, BTW I'm not blaming you, just trying to explain what I think happened. If you notice the effect again even without the Stage 1, switch to higher octane rated fuel (if you can).

We'll see how others fare.

When modifying engine components you can go a little way without considering what you are doing. Once you go far enough you have to know what is happening to the mixture. Hence Stage 2+ (3 especially) have tuning capability. Lamdaboy (wideband O2 sensor) data is required.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Lambdaboy isn't fast enough for this application.
The LM-1, which is almost 20% faster can barely keep up.