RP Short Shifter (get in the queue...!)
10-22-2004, 03:41 PM
#27
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Originally Posted by cgrx
The MS shifter is over priced/over rated...
You can of course produce it cheaper without the overhead that comes with being a big corporation and having a sophisticated QM system. I wouldn't even doubt that you can produce the same quality. But I doubt that you can prove or certify it. Working for the (military) aeronautic industry I'm maybe a little bit "paranoid" concerning such issues, but I had no problem in accepting the price of the Mazdaspeed part and I certainly don't regret it.
As said before, this is no judgement about the quality of RPs products, just a point of view that I have to apply everday at work.
10-23-2004, 06:26 AM
#29
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A set of fender strakes costs $200, now that's probably too much. In fact we're talking about four small decorative pieces of metal. 
The short shifter on the other hand is a functional part, if MS did develop it the way I hope they did (with a proper engineering and testing process), the price is OK.
The short shifter on the other hand is a functional part, if MS did develop it the way I hope they did (with a proper engineering and testing process), the price is OK.
10-23-2004, 09:10 AM
#32
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Originally Posted by AQA101
A set of fender strakes costs $200, now that's probably too much. In fact we're talking about four small decorative pieces of metal.
The short shifter on the other hand is a functional part, if MS did develop it the way I hope they did (with a proper engineering and testing process), the price is OK.
The short shifter on the other hand is a functional part, if MS did develop it the way I hope they did (with a proper engineering and testing process), the price is OK.
they are over priced too
10-23-2004, 09:55 AM
#34
New Member
Do you know how much they are...
MazdaSpeed AUD$500 retail in Japan is ok to me 39000Yen. My friend just told me in Japan "Yellow cap" is selling 36000Yen - and it is still a new part in Japan.
RP you have to aim it under USD$150 or AUD$200 to get some sort of interest really
All the best - make sure they are smooth as well. I am not Fab 5, I don't like sticky stick
EDIT: Now I think of it... gear box is such a feel thing. High quality is important. You can make it short but working like a arcade Daytona is not going to be pretty. High quality stuff only for me.
MazdaSpeed AUD$500 retail in Japan is ok to me 39000Yen. My friend just told me in Japan "Yellow cap" is selling 36000Yen - and it is still a new part in Japan.
RP you have to aim it under USD$150 or AUD$200 to get some sort of interest really
All the best - make sure they are smooth as well. I am not Fab 5, I don't like sticky stick
EDIT: Now I think of it... gear box is such a feel thing. High quality is important. You can make it short but working like a arcade Daytona is not going to be pretty. High quality stuff only for me.
Last edited by takahashi; 10-23-2004 at 09:58 AM.
10-23-2004, 01:51 PM
#35
Taka, Let me address your edit first. I only make quality parts. It's my race engine background, the most expensive engine on the track is the one that came in second.
Next to your wish. With all respect. We havn't built these yet but we have made others, so I can't give a price yet. BUT my feeling is that , It's kinda like me. I want a Ferrari 575 and think they should be around 150,000 USD. Next to it in my garage I want a Bentley Continental. But I have a problem with those guys too.
I will make these for the best price consistant with the quality and quantity as we can. The quality comes first, there isn't any way I will risk my reputation on this simple product. Not with the speed and depth of the internet. And this group, no way. I think there is little room for forgivness on this forum.
Now do think I want to wind up getting treated like those E bay venders selling "superchargers"? Notice how many were sold to members of this forum. 000000.
And you guys give them such praise. Didn't someone say they put one on each wheel?
Not interested in a relationship with my users like that. I think you will all be happy with the product and price.
Next to your wish. With all respect. We havn't built these yet but we have made others, so I can't give a price yet. BUT my feeling is that , It's kinda like me. I want a Ferrari 575 and think they should be around 150,000 USD. Next to it in my garage I want a Bentley Continental. But I have a problem with those guys too.
I will make these for the best price consistant with the quality and quantity as we can. The quality comes first, there isn't any way I will risk my reputation on this simple product. Not with the speed and depth of the internet. And this group, no way. I think there is little room for forgivness on this forum.
Now do think I want to wind up getting treated like those E bay venders selling "superchargers"? Notice how many were sold to members of this forum. 000000.
And you guys give them such praise. Didn't someone say they put one on each wheel?
Not interested in a relationship with my users like that. I think you will all be happy with the product and price.
Last edited by Richard Paul; 10-23-2004 at 03:07 PM.
10-23-2004, 01:54 PM
#36
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Originally Posted by Gomez
You didn't read my earlier reply to magixpuma, did you!
This may be a problem though, there are people out there who are happy with the height of the shifter and think this thread is all about lower shift **** height. It's not, it's about SHORT THROW shifters. Short throw shifters allow you to complete the gear change quicker with a lesser drop in revs during the change, thereby allowing a smoother shift as well. I wonder if it's possible to change the title of this thread and add the word "throw"....?
Gomez.
This may be a problem though, there are people out there who are happy with the height of the shifter and think this thread is all about lower shift **** height. It's not, it's about SHORT THROW shifters. Short throw shifters allow you to complete the gear change quicker with a lesser drop in revs during the change, thereby allowing a smoother shift as well. I wonder if it's possible to change the title of this thread and add the word "throw"....?
Gomez.
10-23-2004, 06:02 PM
#37
New Member
RP, I like your passion for your hardware... I am very picky on my car's gear box.
I buy the RX-8 because of the gear box. I rate the gear box and its feel very highly on my purchase of sports car. Although I must admit, it is still not perfect.
Bad gear feeling in my opinions are STi, Alfa Romeos, 350Z, etc... I never like any of them. Even my old Integra R.
Even I prefer Lotus Exege's over some of the Ferrari's - so it is not just quality. It is feel. I like a particular tie and you don't like. I like to invade a ***** that you don't like *(bad analogy). It is very personal to me.
Good luck - a good thing is 'mez is first on your line and I can test it. If it is as good as half of your personality, I will buy a ticket to the US and rip one off your hand
I buy the RX-8 because of the gear box. I rate the gear box and its feel very highly on my purchase of sports car. Although I must admit, it is still not perfect.
Bad gear feeling in my opinions are STi, Alfa Romeos, 350Z, etc... I never like any of them. Even my old Integra R.
Even I prefer Lotus Exege's over some of the Ferrari's - so it is not just quality. It is feel. I like a particular tie and you don't like. I like to invade a ***** that you don't like *(bad analogy
). It is very personal to me.Good luck - a good thing is 'mez is first on your line and I can test it. If it is as good as half of your personality, I will buy a ticket to the US and rip one off your hand
10-23-2004, 06:53 PM
#38
Taka, your analogy is fine by me. "feel" as you say is personal, but we all want a certain amount of the same thing. As far as Ferrari goes I have owned seven of them in my life and never liked any of them as far as the gearbox goes. Everything else is so wonderfull that you live with it.
It occurs to me that maybe some more feel can be had with the Rx 8. There is a price though. At the point where the shifter accually moves the internals there is a nylon cup. It is through this that every movement is effected. If this were a race machine I would make that part out of Aluminum Silicon Bronze. Then you would have no "cushion" just hand to metal. There exists also the plastic pivot socket. This too have a loss of feel to it, but it has a lot of area and should be less effective in softing the feel.
All that is speculation and I doubt we will ever find out because the negative is the transfer if noise and vibration. That is something they work hard to eliminate. The lower cup is not a hard part to make. If I have some time I might experiment with that sometime. If it seems worth it I could sell it as an option. That is only if it does not get objectionable in the car. Some of us don't mind a little gear wine. In fact we may like it.
I already had this thought when first I saw these shifters. I'm not sure the factorys are using the nylon just for it insulationg qualitys. I suspect cost is involved. Molding a part is a bunch cheaper then machining it from an expensive peice of metal.
Aircraft use this type bronze for sliding surfaces. Race engines use it for valve guides. Fuel injection shaft bushings etc. The forks that move the dog rings in a race gearbox also are made from this.
So lots of thing make up the feel you seek. Only testing will tell. If thebox is nice now then it will be as good or better with my parts. I'm sure I can get a better finish on the sliding surfaces then a mass produced product. The tolorances will be held tighter just 'cause that's what we do here.
Only time will tell. I hope not to much time.
It occurs to me that maybe some more feel can be had with the Rx 8. There is a price though. At the point where the shifter accually moves the internals there is a nylon cup. It is through this that every movement is effected. If this were a race machine I would make that part out of Aluminum Silicon Bronze. Then you would have no "cushion" just hand to metal. There exists also the plastic pivot socket. This too have a loss of feel to it, but it has a lot of area and should be less effective in softing the feel.
All that is speculation and I doubt we will ever find out because the negative is the transfer if noise and vibration. That is something they work hard to eliminate. The lower cup is not a hard part to make. If I have some time I might experiment with that sometime. If it seems worth it I could sell it as an option. That is only if it does not get objectionable in the car. Some of us don't mind a little gear wine. In fact we may like it.
I already had this thought when first I saw these shifters. I'm not sure the factorys are using the nylon just for it insulationg qualitys. I suspect cost is involved. Molding a part is a bunch cheaper then machining it from an expensive peice of metal.
Aircraft use this type bronze for sliding surfaces. Race engines use it for valve guides. Fuel injection shaft bushings etc. The forks that move the dog rings in a race gearbox also are made from this.
So lots of thing make up the feel you seek. Only testing will tell. If thebox is nice now then it will be as good or better with my parts. I'm sure I can get a better finish on the sliding surfaces then a mass produced product. The tolorances will be held tighter just 'cause that's what we do here.
Only time will tell. I hope not to much time.
10-23-2004, 07:16 PM
#39
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Originally Posted by takahashi
I buy the RX-8 because of the gear box. I rate the gear box and its feel very highly on my purchase of sports car. Although I must admit, it is still not perfect.
10-23-2004, 08:44 PM
#40
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Originally Posted by Richard Paul
...It occurs to me that maybe some more feel can be had with the Rx 8. There is a price though. At the point where the shifter accually moves the internals there is a nylon cup. It is through this that every movement is effected. If this were a race machine I would make that part out of Aluminum Silicon Bronze. Then you would have no "cushion" just hand to metal. There exists also the plastic pivot socket. This too have a loss of feel to it, but it has a lot of area and should be less effective in softing the feel.
All that is speculation and I doubt we will ever find out because the negative is the transfer if noise and vibration. That is something they work hard to eliminate. The lower cup is not a hard part to make. If I have some time I might experiment with that sometime. If it seems worth it I could sell it as an option. That is only if it does not get objectionable in the car. Some of us don't mind a little gear wine. In fact we may like it.
I already had this thought when first I saw these shifters. I'm not sure the factorys are using the nylon just for it insulationg qualitys. I suspect cost is involved. Molding a part is a bunch cheaper then machining it from an expensive peice of metal.
Aircraft use this type bronze for sliding surfaces. Race engines use it for valve guides. Fuel injection shaft bushings etc. The forks that move the dog rings in a race gearbox also are made from this....
All that is speculation and I doubt we will ever find out because the negative is the transfer if noise and vibration. That is something they work hard to eliminate. The lower cup is not a hard part to make. If I have some time I might experiment with that sometime. If it seems worth it I could sell it as an option. That is only if it does not get objectionable in the car. Some of us don't mind a little gear wine. In fact we may like it.
I already had this thought when first I saw these shifters. I'm not sure the factorys are using the nylon just for it insulationg qualitys. I suspect cost is involved. Molding a part is a bunch cheaper then machining it from an expensive peice of metal.
Aircraft use this type bronze for sliding surfaces. Race engines use it for valve guides. Fuel injection shaft bushings etc. The forks that move the dog rings in a race gearbox also are made from this....
Richard, the part you're referring to is made by R Magic (Japan) for the RX-7 shifter. I'm not sure if it fits the RX-8 shifter, someone here will know. Probably cheaper for you to make your own anyway. Pics for reference below....
R Magic's website says their distributor in the US is Bozz Performance, in California...
Regards, Gomez.
10-23-2004, 09:55 PM
#41
Well that means someone else found an improvment there. So we will make some. Try them on both the stock shifter and the short one. If there is anything to be had we will market them alone so guys with stock shifters can use them.
From the pictures that doesn't look like it will fit the 8 shifter. Doesn't look to be the same shape. Doesn't matter, we will use the probe to get the exact shape of the stock one. We can digitize parts to .0002 in. Maybe less on a good day.
What we have here is the cheapest mod on the market!!!
Is that the MS (RX 8) shifter on the left??
From the pictures that doesn't look like it will fit the 8 shifter. Doesn't look to be the same shape. Doesn't matter, we will use the probe to get the exact shape of the stock one. We can digitize parts to .0002 in. Maybe less on a good day.
What we have here is the cheapest mod on the market!!!
Is that the MS (RX 8) shifter on the left??
10-23-2004, 10:31 PM
#44
New Member
For a short shifter, I would get the rotary gear **** out and opt for something skinnier - to get a better feel. Can I use the MazdaSpeed gear **** then :D?
10-23-2004, 10:36 PM
#45
I can attest to the quality of the work that will appear in Richards product. I saw such parts at his manufacturing facility. Top shelf stuff.
I would like to stickwith the std ****. But Richard, can the shaft have "Hymee Enhanced" logo on the shaft
Cheers,
Hymee.
I would like to stickwith the std ****. But Richard, can the shaft have "Hymee Enhanced" logo on the shaft
Cheers,
Hymee.
10-23-2004, 11:11 PM
#46
Hymee, they can't see it under the boot. Can I engrave a shift **** for you??
Really Hymee it can be done but on that tight radius it's hard and can't be read.
Get yourself some stickers, bloke.
Then again if you want a few hundred of them we will do it.
We're not planing on engraving the shaft with our own name.
If we were to mill a flat on the shaft then it would be easier. It's a thougyht.
We'll kick it around, for our logo anyway.
Really Hymee it can be done but on that tight radius it's hard and can't be read.
Get yourself some stickers, bloke.
Then again if you want a few hundred of them we will do it.
We're not planing on engraving the shaft with our own name.
If we were to mill a flat on the shaft then it would be easier. It's a thougyht.
We'll kick it around, for our logo anyway.
10-24-2004, 01:27 AM
#47
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Hymee, the Knobmeister can engrave your design on a gearknob of your choosing. He's been doing Miata's for years. Check Nubo's **** out. Search under Voodoo *****....
Gomez.
Gomez.
10-24-2004, 03:19 AM
#48
Kaiten Kenbu Rokuren
Richard I really love and appreciate everything you've done/are doing right now for the RX-8. I may just be being ignorant but I was wondering if you have a website. If you don't, I think it would be a really good idea to help build a consumer base. Maybe you don't have time to work on a website? I'd just love to see you succeed with this work(supercharger, shifter and anything else you might be working on at the moment) and I think marketing via the internet could really help. I know you'd get a lot of hits from members here :D .
Thanks,
Aoshi
Thanks,
Aoshi
10-24-2004, 03:49 AM
#50
Originally Posted by Richard Paul
Get yourself some stickers, bloke.
I think I had one or two in my bags when I saw you on that memorable day, but they were probably still in my luggage at LAX.
My bad about the shaft. A custom Hymee shift ****. Hmm. there is a thought. I guess it would be smallish. If you machined a flat on it, I suppose I could get some epoxy type "button" logos made to stick on. But I really liked that "engraved" anodized look on the stuff you showed me. But I guess that was the rotor oil cap, which is bigger. Oh well.
Cheers,
Hymee.