lets discuss motor mounts
07-25-2009, 08:58 AM
#28
there will probably be 2 options on the mount----
1- the simple and easy that gives more support
2- the poly type.
You need to remember also that these are "break a way" mounts in the event of a collision. Thats an important feature not to be ignored.
olddragger
1- the simple and easy that gives more support
2- the poly type.
You need to remember also that these are "break a way" mounts in the event of a collision. Thats an important feature not to be ignored.
olddragger
07-25-2009, 08:56 PM
#30
i have found some interesting stuff.
1- the engine mount under stress can actually bend some and develop an outward slant. may not be enough to worry about) just note that you may want to check yours.
2- the metal receptacle for the mm bolt (about 1 1/4 to one and half inch long) is mounted into the upper part(duh) and that top part of the mount is solid rubber.. It is soft, slightly compresses using just my hands. The 1st top metal ring of the mm is where it stops.
3- what surprised me was after you clean the mount out of all the oil and plastic stuff it seems that it is just as firm as was before. If there IS a difference its very slight. WTH? I dont get that.
4-- The mount will clean out very well leaving a nice smooth cavity for any polyurethane. if you want to do a poly fill you will still have that top part of solid rubber--this could be a good thing.
Now--- I have been riding around with inserts of 60a harness rubber. inserted between the two spaces of the mm and the mm arm Those little ledges we have talked about. This did limit the amount of compression and rebound experienced. For a NA car this should work. Simple rubber inserts. Pictures tomorrow.
I was still getting some movement, but not nearly as much. Both on acceleration and braking.
It did have a very very slight idle vibration but you would have to expect it to notice it.
I would suggest taking the load off of the mount--loosening the mm bolt a little then place the inserts--the top one will have to be thinner than the bottom one.
This should not overstress the mm arm as the inserts do have some give to them.
How easy is that!
For us guys that are FI and are dealing with more torque and horses, i dont think the above will be enough. So I have cleaned out one of my mounts and ordered the poly from energy suspensions. I am more encouraged in using the poly because of the solid rubber part that remains. The part that anchors the bolt receptacle.
Keeping this will maintain the collision break a way feature (you never know--crazy drivers out there) and it should be of help for any nvh issues. I think both mounts need to be done?
Drive train stability( accel and braking)l on track--i need them both!
I have a few pics i will post tomorrow to illustrate.
Any comments, suggestions ideas welcomed---money too---meh!
rotor on dudes
olddragger
1- the engine mount under stress can actually bend some and develop an outward slant. may not be enough to worry about) just note that you may want to check yours.
2- the metal receptacle for the mm bolt (about 1 1/4 to one and half inch long) is mounted into the upper part(duh) and that top part of the mount is solid rubber.. It is soft, slightly compresses using just my hands. The 1st top metal ring of the mm is where it stops.
3- what surprised me was after you clean the mount out of all the oil and plastic stuff it seems that it is just as firm as was before. If there IS a difference its very slight. WTH? I dont get that.
4-- The mount will clean out very well leaving a nice smooth cavity for any polyurethane. if you want to do a poly fill you will still have that top part of solid rubber--this could be a good thing.
Now--- I have been riding around with inserts of 60a harness rubber. inserted between the two spaces of the mm and the mm arm Those little ledges we have talked about. This did limit the amount of compression and rebound experienced. For a NA car this should work. Simple rubber inserts. Pictures tomorrow.
I was still getting some movement, but not nearly as much. Both on acceleration and braking.
It did have a very very slight idle vibration but you would have to expect it to notice it.
I would suggest taking the load off of the mount--loosening the mm bolt a little then place the inserts--the top one will have to be thinner than the bottom one.
This should not overstress the mm arm as the inserts do have some give to them.
How easy is that!
For us guys that are FI and are dealing with more torque and horses, i dont think the above will be enough. So I have cleaned out one of my mounts and ordered the poly from energy suspensions. I am more encouraged in using the poly because of the solid rubber part that remains. The part that anchors the bolt receptacle.
Keeping this will maintain the collision break a way feature (you never know--crazy drivers out there
) and it should be of help for any nvh issues. I think both mounts need to be done?Drive train stability( accel and braking)l on track--i need them both!
I have a few pics i will post tomorrow to illustrate.
Any comments, suggestions ideas welcomed---money too---meh!
rotor on dudes
olddragger
07-26-2009, 09:33 AM
#32
so noted ---appreciate it Team.
Ok ---here are the results I have seen on my car. Now please keep in mind that i have over 300 hp to the wheels and over 200 of tQ.
My engine was moving a bit--good 2 inches. My mm's are good. Some of my friends cars (NA) was actually moving MORE. I have posted track vids showing how much the gearshift movement is occurring on track. I do not know the condition of their mm but i do know they are **** about their cars.
!st thing I did was to cable the drivers side mount with a small braided cable looped over the mm arm and then through the arms of the mm itself. That actually worked pretty good but for track you would have to cable both as this method only effects the rebound or the upward movement. Not really practical for the street --but in a pitch --yep it works.
With this method I was only getting approx less than 1 inch of total movement and no real noticeable nvh. Sudden acceleration response actually improved---this was obviously felt.
2nd-- see the pic below that show the ledges on the mm arm and mm itself. That is an oem design to limit the maxium amount of movement by the mounts. SO being the back yard monkey mechanic that I am--i thought of placing hard rubber inserts into those spaces to further restrict movement. This work very well for me. I would still get approx 1 inch of movement--sudden low gear acceleration was still more responsive (more snap ) and very little nvh. My rubber inserts was approx 60-70 sard A hardness. You would have to make your own for this and just use a little adhesive to further secure them. The one in the picture was not premently mounted --just placed there to show ya. It can be made to fit much better.
FOR A NA CAR THIS SHOULD WORK. Very inexpensive to do and it doesnt take long to do it. Just make sure your mm's are good and then add the inserts. TaDa!
Now for us FI guys---we always need more. My earlier post is where I am going. I think the poly plus the solid rubber up top will produce a good strong mount. One thing I am going to watch for is --how much is that solid rubber piece actually giving. It may be too much? Dont know yet.
With the poly it should make a big difference on compression only. I dont think it will affect the rebound and therefore both mm will need to be done?
To clarify a earlier post in which i was thinking the mm with the internals and oil removed seemed as hard as the intact one? Its not. It is about 30% less stiff judging by the weight added(weight lifting plates) to both before movement was noticed. On rebound it doesnt make any difference. I hung a MM then tied wgts onto it until i saw it start to stretch. No difference noticed between the two.
here are some pics to illustrate
the 1st picture just shows the size off the metal insert that goes into the mount, this is what the bolt goes in. notice the shape and lenght.
https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1248618672
https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1248618672
hope some can use this info.
olddraggeri
Ok ---here are the results I have seen on my car. Now please keep in mind that i have over 300 hp to the wheels and over 200 of tQ.
My engine was moving a bit--good 2 inches. My mm's are good. Some of my friends cars (NA) was actually moving MORE. I have posted track vids showing how much the gearshift movement is occurring on track. I do not know the condition of their mm but i do know they are **** about their cars.
!st thing I did was to cable the drivers side mount with a small braided cable looped over the mm arm and then through the arms of the mm itself. That actually worked pretty good but for track you would have to cable both as this method only effects the rebound or the upward movement. Not really practical for the street --but in a pitch --yep it works.
With this method I was only getting approx less than 1 inch of total movement and no real noticeable nvh. Sudden acceleration response actually improved---this was obviously felt.
2nd-- see the pic below that show the ledges on the mm arm and mm itself. That is an oem design to limit the maxium amount of movement by the mounts. SO being the back yard monkey mechanic that I am--i thought of placing hard rubber inserts into those spaces to further restrict movement. This work very well for me. I would still get approx 1 inch of movement--sudden low gear acceleration was still more responsive (more snap
) and very little nvh. My rubber inserts was approx 60-70 sard A hardness. You would have to make your own for this and just use a little adhesive to further secure them. The one in the picture was not premently mounted --just placed there to show ya. It can be made to fit much better.FOR A NA CAR THIS SHOULD WORK. Very inexpensive to do and it doesnt take long to do it. Just make sure your mm's are good and then add the inserts. TaDa!
Now for us FI guys---we always need more. My earlier post is where I am going. I think the poly plus the solid rubber up top will produce a good strong mount. One thing I am going to watch for is --how much is that solid rubber piece actually giving. It may be too much? Dont know yet.
With the poly it should make a big difference on compression only. I dont think it will affect the rebound and therefore both mm will need to be done?
To clarify a earlier post in which i was thinking the mm with the internals and oil removed seemed as hard as the intact one? Its not. It is about 30% less stiff judging by the weight added(weight lifting plates) to both before movement was noticed. On rebound it doesnt make any difference. I hung a MM then tied wgts onto it until i saw it start to stretch. No difference noticed between the two.
here are some pics to illustrate
the 1st picture just shows the size off the metal insert that goes into the mount, this is what the bolt goes in. notice the shape and lenght.
https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1248618672
https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1248618672
hope some can use this info.
olddraggeri
Last edited by olddragger; 08-01-2009 at 08:22 AM.
07-26-2009, 05:29 PM
#34
Interesteing read OD, i often have shifting problems that are not transmission related and my PPF is torqued to spec and perfectly aligned.
Need to find some poly here and a couple of motor mounts to drill out!
A question: what does nvh stand for?
Giorgio
Need to find some poly here and a couple of motor mounts to drill out!
A question: what does nvh stand for?
Giorgio
07-26-2009, 10:38 PM
#36
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Suspension
semi rigid engine mount color
Conformity model : RX-8 (SE3P)
product code : RSE3-SREMC
price including tax : 18,900 Yen
As for the engine mount of RX-8 when travel distance advances with oil enclosure system, there is 0 element that installation position goes down.In addition there is a clearance beforehand in the genuine mount, and between the color there is a roll G to catch when the engine tilts, it is the structure which for the first time becomes rigid.
In order to insert the clearance part, the mount color which is installed is this commodity.
If the mark is squeezed to only race/lace and sport travelling, rigidity conversion is effective, but in the car case reason, 4 sea tar sports the comfort it cannot make sacrifice.Because of that semi the material and form in order to make rigid were tested and the engine mount color became the product of [jiyurakon] make.
Wobble of the engine mission and the like with the accelerator on off of the engine is held down and shift change becomes easy to do.
While leaving the change of engine position in the midst of travelling in minimum, you hold down the vibration and road noise to the utmost.
It becomes protection of [enjinmaunto].
It is minor front and back installing possible.
Commodity price is 2 (one unit).
07-26-2009, 10:45 PM
#37
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I also found on their site that this engine mount mod works on an exchange process. You must send them your mounts in exchange for the modded ones. It's about $400 USD plus shipping costs.
07-27-2009, 03:26 AM
#40
Thanks OD
@I8U, for what i understood those are not complete reinforced motormounts but just collars to help distribute the load and weight over a larger\harder surface. I don't personally like them.
For the price that OD mentioned some posts above i would be more than happy to send some motor mounts to Energy Suspensions though
@I8U, for what i understood those are not complete reinforced motormounts but just collars to help distribute the load and weight over a larger\harder surface. I don't personally like them.
For the price that OD mentioned some posts above i would be more than happy to send some motor mounts to Energy Suspensions though
07-27-2009, 10:44 AM
#41
$100, 000!!!!!!!! Hell, I will make any mount you want for that! Out of titianium!
Update---i have filled my reamed out MM (used a 2 inch hole cut drill and then a long screwdriver) with the poly and now have it drying under a heat lamp at home. Its less than 36 hrs now but it does seem to be drying pretty fast.
If this works out and yall dont want to do your own, then I will be willing to do one on exchange basis for you ---how much should the charge be? I could ship it out the same day I receive yours--overnight it etc. I have an extra one here that i can have on standby.
Or you could buy a used mount --, OR check with a dealership as they throw the old ones away when they put the new ones in.
olddragger
Update---i have filled my reamed out MM (used a 2 inch hole cut drill and then a long screwdriver) with the poly and now have it drying under a heat lamp at home. Its less than 36 hrs now but it does seem to be drying pretty fast.
If this works out and yall dont want to do your own, then I will be willing to do one on exchange basis for you ---how much should the charge be? I could ship it out the same day I receive yours--overnight it etc. I have an extra one here that i can have on standby.
Or you could buy a used mount --, OR check with a dealership as they throw the old ones away when they put the new ones in.
olddragger
Last edited by olddragger; 07-27-2009 at 10:48 AM.
07-27-2009, 10:51 AM
#42
Ok wait, we use the commas for the cents and not for the thousands here!
Anyway how much do motor mounts weigh? Shipping could kill overseas guys like me, poly is pretty cheap in comparison!
When are you installing it? i have like 2 or 3 spare motor mounts hanging around i might to that before september.
Anyway how much do motor mounts weigh? Shipping could kill overseas guys like me, poly is pretty cheap in comparison!
When are you installing it? i have like 2 or 3 spare motor mounts hanging around i might to that before september.
08-01-2009, 08:26 AM
#49
yes-- and let it dry for a few days just to be sure. So far so good. Still some movement but not much. No noticeable nvh, sudden accel has a better snap to it and the break a way safety feature is intact.
I will be at Road atlanta for a nasa w/e on 8/8 for the REAL test.
I may do the drivers side also--just to see if i notice any difference.
olddragger
I will be at Road atlanta for a nasa w/e on 8/8 for the REAL test.
I may do the drivers side also--just to see if i notice any difference.
olddragger
08-01-2009, 11:25 AM
#50
Mumble mumble... i will do both of them just to keep the thing balanced. Wonder if this reduced play will help decreasing PPF stress as well. Imho this, and some extra bracing and our transmission could last a bit longer.