wedge357

I would like to know the baseline dyno HP off my Shinka as currently configured. I would just hate it though to find out that I am only pulling 150whp or so...

The car feels fast but I'm afraid to find that it's only because the car is so light that it feels powerful. Anyway, since the 8 has a very good power-to-weight ratio (based on Mazda HP claims) an additional 20hp should be a welcome indeed.

brillo

Rotor, I think you took this out of context. I have spoken many times with Racing Beat, and you have to remember, they nearly always look at things from an emissions legal standpoint, therefore, the gains they were seeing were ones that wouldn't burn the stock cat out from running super lean.

If your talking about a emissions be damned approach, then you can prolly squeeze another 15-20whp out of the car safely.

You guys have to remember, the original gains from the CZ and other piggybacks were with older flashes. Mazda has slowly leaned the AFR out (its still rich, just not as bad as before), therefore, each flash beyond L likely added 2hp here and 3hp there. Therefore, there may really only be about another 10-20whp left to have. Its hard to feel such small gains in power normally, but especially with our cars powerband, which is so smooth.

Xyntax

Hey RG, I just want to ask you a question: Is there a reason why 30 degrees is the max in our open-loops? I have been tuning for more but less than 44, and I have gained some power. I still dont know why so much fuel is dumped in and advance is kept at 30 in stock form.

rotarygod

30 at full throttle is actually more than you would want to run on a 13B. That's quite a bit for a rotary. Since the Renesis is an entirely different animal, it is conceivable that it can run at more than that and be just fine. It would probably have alot to do with a lack of port overlap. On a 13B I tune for a max advance of around 25-26 degrees and hold it there. 30 is where Mazda decided to max theirs out on the Renesis for whatever reason. No idea why. Hopefully I will play with total advance on a Renesis in the near future and see for myself how far to go safely. I also want to adjust split though. I don't want to just advance or retard the total timing and let the stock ecu have it's way with the split. Just curious where you got the 44 degree total advance number? I wouldn't run 44 degrees of advance at part throttle cruise but then again I may change my mind after I play with it.

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

That is complete and utter RX8club myth from people experiencing their LTFTs being reset after the flash. The only change was between M & L & K - L was a tad leaner in high rpms, m richened the higher rpms back and leaned out the midrange slightly. The differences AFTER YOU LEAVE THE LTFT settle out even between those flashes was minimal.

I have been running the same map for a year now and it always settles to 13.0 and stays there at WOT despite going through like 4 flashes now.

rotarygod

I think you misunderstand what he is saying. When the RX-8 first hit our shores, whatever flash it came with, it was slower than it is currently. At some point Mazda did add power to the car. It's not a myth, it's a fact. No one wants to admit that and jus wants to moan and cray about where their poor little "missing" power is. There isn't any btw. With this original flash, Canzoomer had made some large gains over it. There were accounts of the Canzoomer being noticably faster in acceleration than the stock flash at the time. One of the new flashes came along and everyone felt a power increase. Suddenly the Canzoomer wasn't near the advantage that it was over the stock ecu. Mazda did close the gap quite a bit. The supposed gains of up to 40 hp with a Canzoomer were over the earliest flash. Since the power of the car has noticably come up since then, there isn't 40 more hp to be had over stock anymore. I don't understand how this is all "utter RX8club myth". Facts are facts.

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

What about cold start idles, will the stock ECU adjust idle RPM's if I have the Interceptor installed until the engine comes up to temp?

brillo

Based on what I've heard from Mazsport and what we have seen with the Mega Squirt, yes, the stock ECU through the DBW throttle adjusts to allow for warmup.

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

Scud's mods seem close to mine:

- aFe Drop In Air Filter
- Racing Beat Cat-back Exhaust
- Racing Beat Aluminum Flywheel
- Max Ground engine bay grounding kit
- Racing Beat Spark Plug Wires

The only different mods that I have are the REVi intake, and the Rotary Performance SuperCAT midpipe. Can't wait to see the results. How is it looking?

I thought Scud Runner was going GReddy turbo one day?

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

I have afr data from various flashes to say otherwise after the LTFT are relearned. Again, I have been using the same map for a year through 4 flashes now - after your LTFTs settle out there is no change. If there was any noticable change, I would have had to redo my maps - but i didn't.

Facts are not facts when the fact is based on people hopping in their car after a flash and saying "Wow, this feels better" when really thats because their LTFT just went from +7 to 0 again.

cleoent

its been two days, i wouldn't get too excited folks, if they would have had something positive to report i'm sure they would have.

Raevik

Not to rain on the parade, but I'm not really too excited here. $1k-$2k for a product that might add 10-20 hp?

Oh, and if your dealer finds out it'll likely void your warranty on almost everything on your car.

I guess I'm the conservative type...I got a warranty on my 1st year RX8 for a reason. I love power as much as the next guy, but likely voiding the whole thing for an extra 10-15 hp isn't my cup o tea...

Primarily I think my concerns lie with cost, headache, and warranty vulnerability.

Xyntax

RG, the 40 max advance total is only calculated though, not logged. As I have read from here that Canscan only picks up the ignition advance from what the ECU gave out. The adjustment from E-manage would not be reflected. Although my open-loop advance goes from 30 - 26 in some ranges, I was able to add up to 10 degrees of advance in some ranges. The canscan only shows 26 - 30 degrees, but with the adjustments I made from e-manage, it was actually 36 - 40 degrees. It was still running rich even at those levels. So what I did was I started reducing fuel by two points at a time. Keep in mind that I only run my tests below 200 degrees of coolant temp. I log those together with my canscan logs. As soon as I hit my 3rd run, I would have to go on the freeway running neutral at 70mph. By the time I get to 55 mph, the temps have already gone down to 180 degrees :D That gives me around 2 - 3 runs again.

nhk

Xyntax, what gear that u used to dyno. if u dyno with 4th, check the third gear A/F, else check the the 3rd gear A/F. I think one of them is usually leaner than the other

Xyntax

^ Funny you mentioned that. With my map, 1st gear runs lean, 2nd less leaner, and then 3rd just about where I want them. I dynoed in 4th, for both baseline and new. It gets richer as the gears go up.

I thought I saw a post by RG requesting that someone should log their coolant temps when dynoing. Well, I did. I saw 235 degrees up top by the time the run was through. Cooling down for about 2 minutes and it was at 185 degrees or so.

I learned something from the guy at FFTEC. He turned on my heater and full blast the air. He said it would help prevent overheating because the heat from the engine bay has been diverted somewhere else (inside! ouch!) It was really hot in there even with the windows down.

MazsportScott

I regret to inform you that we have not taken the car to the dyno yet. The good news is there is no bad news. I feel we will be on the dyno soon, but until I get the drivability great I wont take it to the dyno. Tuning for W.O.T. and top end power is the easy part, making it behave in real world conditions is more difficult and time consuming. I will continue working and feel confident I will find more power for the N/A platform. Resist the urge to give up, just because some folks have met with limited sucess does not mean it's impossible or unrealistic. Not long ago many people thought 290rwhp from a Greddy turbo kit was impossible. Thanks for your continued support and patience,Scott

cleoent

It took you 2 days to come up with that? Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooo

JOHNRX8

Thanks for the update Scott, looking forward to your findings!

mike1324a

I dont care if it takes a while. Your numbers on the turbo car are most impressive and hope the n/a car will yield good results as well. keep up the good work.

Spazm

Most of the people in these posts that bemoan waits and delays never buy anything anyway it seems.

Measure twice, cut once. Most people seem to want to start sawing to see the sawdust fly!

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

My vGarage has a warm spot for Scott :D

jwbond

scott, i am excited to see the results, I am sold if you can get 25+rwhp!

I am assuming the install should be easy enough for any tuner shop with a dyno to install/tune? pre-made maps to be sold with it?

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

And here is what Jim Mederer had to say about advance:

"Before we leave the subject of the rotor depression, one more point - The physical shape of the depression at its leading edge has a lot to do with the maximum usable Leading ignition advance. You can understand this better if you set a late-model rotary at 35 degrees BTC, take out the #1 leading spark plug, and look into the spark plug hole (a mirror and light might be helpful). What you will see is the curved flank of the rotor rather tight up against the bottom of the spark plug hole. If the spark plug were to ignite at this point, the engine might well misfire because the flame front might be snuffed out (quenched) when it hit the rotor surface. If you now turn the engine to 20 degrees BTC, the way is open to burn into the mixture in the rotor depression. This is an important part of the reason why nearly all 1974 and later engines can run no more than 20 to 25 degrees ignition advance at high power (earlier USA model engines had a very long, shallow depression that allowed more advance)."

So, what is the maximum advance capibilities of the Renesis I wonder? Is it written down anywhere?

rotarygod

The Renesis combustion recess is shaped like the last 13B's. If you look at some of the old 12A's and old 13B's from the early 70's, they were different.

You can run timing that far advanced on all rotaries but only at part throttle at cruising rpm's. My concern is running it over 30 degrees at full throttle.

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

No kidding - I don't think anything past 30 degrees at WOT should be attempted.