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Importance of Stainless Steel?
10-06-2010, 06:21 PM
#1
Importance of Stainless Steel?
Hi guys. Basically, here's my issue:
There's a guy about 3 hours away from me that is selling a custom Magnaflow exhaust. These exhausts typically run for $1,000+, and he had it up for sale for about half that price. The catch is that the piping is not stainless steel, just plain old steel. The mufflers and tips are stainless.
After I asked him about the corrosion:
What do you guys think? I couldn't think of a better place to post this. Is there a good chance of non-stainless-steel parts falling apart on me?
There's a guy about 3 hours away from me that is selling a custom Magnaflow exhaust. These exhausts typically run for $1,000+, and he had it up for sale for about half that price. The catch is that the piping is not stainless steel, just plain old steel. The mufflers and tips are stainless.
Originally Posted by Seller
The exhaust is a custom magnaflow exhaust it can not be bought anywhere it was built for a track rx8 it is mean and deep sounding but at highway speeds has a light drone very comfortable. IT DOES NOT SOUND LIKE A HONDA CIVIC WITH CANS HANGING OFF OF IT. The reason we did not use a prebuilt exhaust was because of the flow rate threw the y pipe the y pipe for this setup has a special diamond inverter in the apex of the y pipe to allow equal flow to both sides without cavitation basically it flows right,. It is not completely stainless steel only the mufflers and tips are. the pipe is 3 inch to 5 inch rolled tips. The car was tracked at vir in Virginia , and summit point in west Virginia at NASA sanctioned events NO ONE AT THESE EVENTS HAS EVER HEARD EXHAUST ON A 13B RX 8 THAT SOUNDS THIS GOOD
I will install the exhaust for nothing take the drive spend the money you will be very satisfied
I will install the exhaust for nothing take the drive spend the money you will be very satisfied
Originally Posted by Seller
In regards to surface rust we coated the steel parts initially with a zinc based anti corrosive coating and then hi temp panted them black this lasted 2 years or in till we started to burn a higher methanol content in our race fuels this created a lot more heat and when running in race conditions it caused the paint to flake if you would like i will have our machinist compound blast the steel parts and reapply the coating the truth to the matter is we used roll cage grade tubing not cheap napa exhaust tube stock when we bent this its mandrel bent as you can tell and is no way structurally damaged also with the amount of engine lubricants a 13b ren engine consumes it applies a film of oil to the inside of the pipes
when we get ready to build our e46 m coupe that were working on it will be in the same manner stainless where we can but stainless steel pipe is so expensive and yes its pretty for a couple of weeks but I don't know about you I have access to lifts all day long and i don't
polish my exhaust on my corvette and its a 3k system but if you have anymore questions let me know I GUARANTEE YOU WILL LOVE THE WAY IT SOUNDS ill give you the car cover if you don't.
when we get ready to build our e46 m coupe that were working on it will be in the same manner stainless where we can but stainless steel pipe is so expensive and yes its pretty for a couple of weeks but I don't know about you I have access to lifts all day long and i don't
polish my exhaust on my corvette and its a 3k system but if you have anymore questions let me know I GUARANTEE YOU WILL LOVE THE WAY IT SOUNDS ill give you the car cover if you don't.
10-06-2010, 06:23 PM
#2
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I think I need a tetnis shot just looking at that thing. lol
For $400-$500 you can find a used exhaust on here that doesn't look like it's going to rust apart in the next twelve seconds. I picked up my Borla for even cheaper than that actually.
Unless it's a really, REALLY good deal I'd avoid it.
For $400-$500 you can find a used exhaust on here that doesn't look like it's going to rust apart in the next twelve seconds. I picked up my Borla for even cheaper than that actually.
Unless it's a really, REALLY good deal I'd avoid it.
10-06-2010, 07:12 PM
#3
I had custom exhaust work done on my last car where I went from a 1.5" to 2.2" catback piping. The first time through I had them do it with non-stainless material. Held up pretty good but eventually (im talking 6 years here) a leak/crack started to form. Taking off the catback was awfully disgusting.
Heres the thing though, my replacement was stainless steel. The thing with stainless steel is that it kinda has an asterisk. Its only stainless if you actually take care of it. It may not rust, but, it will form a layer of crap over time.
Mind you the stainless steel custom work cost me almost double what the standard was.
That being said, looking at your pics, they look as a non-stainless material would after a few months (yea, months) of use. I dont like the look of the outlet joints though, seems like that dark patch might be some deep scarring in the metal, and the joint welds dont look all that great. I would avoid.
Heres the thing though, my replacement was stainless steel. The thing with stainless steel is that it kinda has an asterisk. Its only stainless if you actually take care of it. It may not rust, but, it will form a layer of crap over time.
Mind you the stainless steel custom work cost me almost double what the standard was.
That being said, looking at your pics, they look as a non-stainless material would after a few months (yea, months) of use. I dont like the look of the outlet joints though, seems like that dark patch might be some deep scarring in the metal, and the joint welds dont look all that great. I would avoid.
10-07-2010, 08:42 AM
#6
There isn't $300 in it new. If heavy wall roll cage tubing was used then there isn't any weight savings over OE. As you can see, the welded areas rust out quicker than the basic material. Maybe $150 tops and that's only if all you care about is having a loud exhaust.
I personally wouldn't have anything to do with the seller just because he or she uses all caps - lol
.
I personally wouldn't have anything to do with the seller just because he or she uses all caps - lol
.
10-07-2010, 07:18 PM
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Grog I have the exact same dual canister set up and I can say also that the sound is amazing. What blew me away with the mufflers were how you could see right through them in one opening out the other, there is very little restriction if any. If you can find ones in better shape go for it along with stainless tubeing the gentlemen who did my set up is a master it being totaly custome. everything is stainless tig welded, no clamps or any type of fasteners. If you wanna come up to Canada I'll set you up lol !!!
Last edited by hirev8; 10-07-2010 at 07:27 PM.
10-07-2010, 11:39 PM
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It is my error in the for mentioning of tig welding it is indeed mig weld thanks for the adjustment. My summation in him being a master was pointed at the fact he was able to custom fabricate a single piece set up with out the aid of any clamps. The welds may not be pretty but they are sound besides that the car sounds amazing and even better yet the whole set up is guarantied for life in writing. Unless you can say the same about your own system then I'd appreciate the non sarcasm
10-08-2010, 05:32 AM
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It is my error in the for mentioning of tig welding it is indeed mig weld thanks for the adjustment. My summation in him being a master was pointed at the fact he was able to custom fabricate a single piece set up with out the aid of any clamps. The welds may not be pretty but they are sound besides that the car sounds amazing and even better yet the whole set up is guarantied for life in writing. Unless you can say the same about your own system then I'd appreciate the non sarcasm
Far as what I have, just the MS dual can. and i'd choose it a hundred times in a row over something that looked like that, especially considering the lack of any tangible gains power wise. sound is easy to manipulate, flow/power requires more skill
10-08-2010, 09:33 PM
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sarcasm wasnt intended, seriousness was. i'm glad you have it in writing as MiG weld will not hold up as well in this use as TiG will. and welds that look like that are pretty failure prone. if that offends you in some way too bad i guess cause its not opinion, its just the way it is.
Far as what I have, just the MS dual can. and i'd choose it a hundred times in a row over something that looked like that, especially considering the lack of any tangible gains power wise. sound is easy to manipulate, flow/power requires more skill
Far as what I have, just the MS dual can. and i'd choose it a hundred times in a row over something that looked like that, especially considering the lack of any tangible gains power wise. sound is easy to manipulate, flow/power requires more skill
10-08-2010, 10:06 PM
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I believe and think most would agree with me.......I would take the integrity and longevity over a weld rather than over clamps and a gasket any day, Not Knocking if indeed that is what you have. Looks on how aesthetically pleasing to the eye a weld may be or not is really not a big concern to me , even if being prone to failure based on looks from your assessment of a photo, I'm sure it would still out perform and out live the attributes of the above mentioned parts. As far as flow goes ...... do the research any restriction of flow is virtually non existent on these dual canisters..... not an opinion just the way it is
i wont even bother commenting on the welds anymore because if you dont understand the principles of sheilding gas, proper penetration, and good welds, then you'll think what you want. clean welds are strong welds. nuff said
and concerning flow and research... if you bothered to look into the history over the last 5 or 6+ years you'd quickly see that there is no more than 3-5hp to be had in the mufflers. even removing them entirely produces little to nothing more. 3-5hp is within range of testing error and repeatability. swallow that and get back to us.
Last edited by paulmasoner; 10-08-2010 at 10:08 PM.
10-09-2010, 10:40 PM
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GOOD welds are certainly desirable over clamps/gaskets in many scenarios
i wont even bother commenting on the welds anymore because if you dont understand the principles of sheilding gas, proper penetration, and good welds, then you'll think what you want. clean welds are strong welds. nuff said
and concerning flow and research... if you bothered to look into the history over the last 5 or 6+ years you'd quickly see that there is no more than 3-5hp to be had in the mufflers. even removing them entirely produces little to nothing more. 3-5hp is within range of testing error and repeatability. swallow that and get back to us.
i wont even bother commenting on the welds anymore because if you dont understand the principles of sheilding gas, proper penetration, and good welds, then you'll think what you want. clean welds are strong welds. nuff said
and concerning flow and research... if you bothered to look into the history over the last 5 or 6+ years you'd quickly see that there is no more than 3-5hp to be had in the mufflers. even removing them entirely produces little to nothing more. 3-5hp is within range of testing error and repeatability. swallow that and get back to us.
10-10-2010, 09:26 AM
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lets see if i can do this nicely
proper penetration and gas shielding(ie a clean weld). while you dont show amatuer level "spatter" the welds do not appear fluid and smooth, indicating that a steady torch tip distance was not maintained and the welder in turn did not provide constant current.** there goes your penetration and proper gas shielding. penetration makes strength, sheilding/clean weld makes a weld that lasts. welds tend to be the first thing to oxidize, if your weld isnt clean/sheilded you've just asked oxidation to start IN the weld.
** a good welder is constant current design, but some cheapo's are constant voltage. BUT even constant current welders can only compensate so much. I cannot differentiate by pics alone what type of welding(glob/spray/short circuit/pulse-spray) was performed, but its clear that is wasnt pulsed-spray which is the only method I'd allow to be used on something like this
um, because you brought it up. flow = power
I'm going to touch on the weld thing just a bit further .if a weld doesn't appear to have any continuity or form then the metals have not properly fused or the integrity has diminished considerably prone to failure as you would put it. I don't see any where on my system any discolouring of the tubing or on the welds for that matter that would indicate any leakage due to any degradation of the weld because of an "unclean weld" . My vehicle being an 04 and driven hard at times at tracking events I have yet to experience any failure any where on the system .
** a good welder is constant current design, but some cheapo's are constant voltage. BUT even constant current welders can only compensate so much. I cannot differentiate by pics alone what type of welding(glob/spray/short circuit/pulse-spray) was performed, but its clear that is wasnt pulsed-spray which is the only method I'd allow to be used on something like this
Last edited by paulmasoner; 10-10-2010 at 09:30 AM.
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