Hydraulic e-brake (for Rear BBK's)
03-02-2010, 07:26 PM
#1
Hydraulic e-brake (for Rear BBK's)
I don't have to give up my e-brakes after all... 
I'm very tempted to get one and try this out. Wonder if they sell a 2 piston setup for both rear wheels... Just for e-brake will do, but not for drifting, you would need 2 piston setup.
I'm very tempted to get one and try this out. Wonder if they sell a 2 piston setup for both rear wheels... Just for e-brake will do, but not for drifting, you would need 2 piston setup.
Last edited by m4f1050; 03-02-2010 at 07:59 PM.
I just thought of a better idea... I will fabricate my own system. Using exisiting e-brake lever/locking mechanism and cables. Using one of these and converting the cable to push with a lever....
03-03-2010, 01:00 AM
#5
You'll need separate e-brake calipers, which you might as well use a mechanical caliper and rework the cables of the existing e-brake
You can't just hook it up to the existing rear brake system. It will push fluid back int the master cylinder reservoir rather than engage the brakes. You can't use check valves because your brakes will never release.
i.e. fail, you're doing it wrong, etc.
.
You can't just hook it up to the existing rear brake system. It will push fluid back int the master cylinder reservoir rather than engage the brakes. You can't use check valves because your brakes will never release.
i.e. fail, you're doing it wrong, etc.
.
Last edited by TeamRX8; 03-03-2010 at 01:03 AM.
03-03-2010, 03:53 AM
#6
Add the ABS system in as well.
We did it on a drift car but it required a lot of work and modifcation, definitely not suitable for a street driven car.
I may have pics somewhere, let me check them out!
We did it on a drift car but it required a lot of work and modifcation, definitely not suitable for a street driven car.
I may have pics somewhere, let me check them out!
03-03-2010, 11:03 AM
#8
Problem is that the mechanical will not work with the traction control, or can you use both mechanical and hydraulic on that brake caliper? If you can, then that's all we would need (2 of these and minor mods) to have full working dual e-brakes + traction control / ABS..
The pistons im adding works as a check valve, when applied it pressurises the brake side and closes the master cylinder side. Only downside would be pressing (or having to press) the regular brakes while the e-brake is locked (AT cars, you might have to release e-brake, then press brake to switch from Park to Drive... LOL)
The pistons im adding works as a check valve, when applied it pressurises the brake side and closes the master cylinder side. Only downside would be pressing (or having to press) the regular brakes while the e-brake is locked (AT cars, you might have to release e-brake, then press brake to switch from Park to Drive...
LOL)
Last edited by m4f1050; 03-03-2010 at 11:06 AM.
03-06-2010, 10:52 AM
#9
it's just like OE; hydraulic for main brakes and mechanical for the e-brake, it has two hydraulic pistons though and is a fixed caliper while OE is one piston with a sliding caliper, it will take a custom mount for the caliper and also adapting the e-brake cable
I'd be interested in seeing how your system works
I'd be interested in seeing how your system works
03-06-2010, 07:25 PM
#10
So that one you posted will work then.
I spoke with my buddy (he has the mill) and I still have to get together with him, he said the picture with measurements if they are real that he can start drawing in dxf? (whatever that is...) Basically it will tap into the line (individually) and when you pull the e-brake inside the cable will pull a lever that will push (instead of pulling) the remote master cylinder, which acts as a check valve closing the path to the master cylinder at front, and pressurise the brake side. My buddy said it was doable so we'll see. I still haven't gotten any big brake kit but it should work with existing system as well.
I spoke with my buddy (he has the mill) and I still have to get together with him, he said the picture with measurements if they are real that he can start drawing in dxf? (whatever that is...) Basically it will tap into the line (individually) and when you pull the e-brake inside the cable will pull a lever that will push (instead of pulling) the remote master cylinder, which acts as a check valve closing the path to the master cylinder at front, and pressurise the brake side. My buddy said it was doable so we'll see. I still haven't gotten any big brake kit but it should work with existing system as well.
03-09-2010, 05:52 PM
#11
Working on that same idea, it seems to me it might make more sense to install mechanical valves in the brake lines near the rear calipers and have them actuate/release via the parking brake cables, where you pump the brake pressure up using the brake pedal and engage the valves locking the pressure on the rear calipers until the e-brake lever is released
EDIT: ok, just realized that the issue here is that it relies on your braking system to function, which means that if it fails the safety concept of an e-brake system is out the window. IMO the entire e-brake functionality must be completely separate of the regular braking system, which is probably why manufacturers use a separate mechanical e-brake system
.
EDIT: ok, just realized that the issue here is that it relies on your braking system to function, which means that if it fails the safety concept of an e-brake system is out the window. IMO the entire e-brake functionality must be completely separate of the regular braking system, which is probably why manufacturers use a separate mechanical e-brake system
.
Last edited by TeamRX8; 03-09-2010 at 06:01 PM.
03-09-2010, 08:40 PM
#12
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Working on that same idea, it seems to me it might make more sense to install mechanical valves in the brake lines near the rear calipers and have them actuate/release via the parking brake cables, where you pump the brake pressure up using the brake pedal and engage the valves locking the pressure on the rear calipers until the e-brake lever is released
EDIT: ok, just realized that the issue here is that it relies on your braking system to function, which means that if it fails the safety concept of an e-brake system is out the window. IMO the entire e-brake functionality must be completely separate of the regular braking system, which is probably why manufacturers use a separate mechanical e-brake system
.
EDIT: ok, just realized that the issue here is that it relies on your braking system to function, which means that if it fails the safety concept of an e-brake system is out the window. IMO the entire e-brake functionality must be completely separate of the regular braking system, which is probably why manufacturers use a separate mechanical e-brake system
.
I can see your point about why this is a bad idea though.
03-10-2010, 12:26 AM
#16
This system allows the brake system to function normal, brake fluid flows through, when pressed, works as check valve, it closes one end (master cylinder side) and pressuries the other end (brake side)
I don't know how else to explain it, and I also don't guarantee this will work, it's just a project I am going to experiment with. Just started it at a bad time, but it's on my list. Hopefully it works! I would love to have BBK on the rear and still have e-brake.
I don't know how else to explain it, and I also don't guarantee this will work, it's just a project I am going to experiment with. Just started it at a bad time, but it's on my list. Hopefully it works! I would love to have BBK on the rear and still have e-brake.
03-11-2010, 11:03 AM
#17
This system allows the brake system to function normal, brake fluid flows through, when pressed, works as check valve, it closes one end (master cylinder side) and pressuries the other end (brake side)
I don't know how else to explain it, and I also don't guarantee this will work, it's just a project I am going to experiment with. Just started it at a bad time, but it's on my list. Hopefully it works! I would love to have BBK on the rear and still have e-brake.
I don't know how else to explain it, and I also don't guarantee this will work, it's just a project I am going to experiment with. Just started it at a bad time, but it's on my list. Hopefully it works! I would love to have BBK on the rear and still have e-brake.
Full extension, it acts as a coupler, nothing more. Fluid passes freely in both directions.
Start movement in, it closes off the upstream port to the ABS / master cylinder.
Further movement inward, it functions as a piston, using the trapped fluid in the cylinder to engage the downstream brake piston and close the caliper.
It'll work to hold a race car from rolling, but I'd be hesitant to use it in a street vehicle. It would take a tandem pair to be a true "emergency brake", since you don't want to combine the rear brake hydraulic circuits and screw up traction control / ABS.
My $0.02 on the subject.
03-11-2010, 11:27 AM
#18
I've played with the big boys hydraulics (fighter jets and KC-135 tankers), and I understand what that device is supposed to do. You're scaring people off with the phrase "check valve", which this isn't. You're looking at what could be phrased as a "locking coupler", or a secondary master cylinder.
Full extension, it acts as a coupler, nothing more. Fluid passes freely in both directions.
Start movement in, it closes off the upstream port to the ABS / master cylinder.
Further movement inward, it functions as a piston, using the trapped fluid in the cylinder to engage the downstream brake piston and close the caliper.
It'll work to hold a race car from rolling, but I'd be hesitant to use it in a street vehicle. It would take a tandem pair to be a true "emergency brake", since you don't want to combine the rear brake hydraulic circuits and screw up traction control / ABS.
My $0.02 on the subject.
Full extension, it acts as a coupler, nothing more. Fluid passes freely in both directions.
Start movement in, it closes off the upstream port to the ABS / master cylinder.
Further movement inward, it functions as a piston, using the trapped fluid in the cylinder to engage the downstream brake piston and close the caliper.
It'll work to hold a race car from rolling, but I'd be hesitant to use it in a street vehicle. It would take a tandem pair to be a true "emergency brake", since you don't want to combine the rear brake hydraulic circuits and screw up traction control / ABS.
My $0.02 on the subject.
800+ hp capable rebuild.
01-22-2011, 03:07 AM
#22
Wouldn't be easier to just have a single-acting spring actuator at the hand lever side and a line running to another single acting spring actuator the pulls the cable on the brake side. Just have a line to each one? Then you wouldn't have to tie into the brake hydraulics.
01-22-2011, 03:09 AM
#23
Wouldn't be easier to just have a single-acting spring actuator at the hand lever side and a line running to another single acting spring actuator the pulls the cable on the brake side. Just have a line to each one? Then you wouldn't have to tie into the brake hydraulics.
01-22-2011, 05:45 PM
#24
Team had it right on post #7. A lightweight aluminum caliper with integrated mechanical e-brake would be the best way to do it. However if I remember correctly, the calipers are not readily available and then you have the whole fabrication issues.
IMHO the next best thing and a much easier option is installing the TCE rear bbk. http://www.tceperformanceproducts.com/rx8/kits-7/
You will get the improved mechanical advantage of larger rotors while retaining the ebrake. The only thing you dont get is the super steep price tag and the 10lb weight loss of aluminum calipers.
IMHO the next best thing and a much easier option is installing the TCE rear bbk. http://www.tceperformanceproducts.com/rx8/kits-7/
You will get the improved mechanical advantage of larger rotors while retaining the ebrake. The only thing you dont get is the super steep price tag and the 10lb weight loss of aluminum calipers.