Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Thing is a 300whp 6port AT should not be that hard to achieve and it would be an awesome car . I don't think i've ever seen an AT dyno over 200whp which is pathetic given the potential for the car .

Phil's 8

iTrader: (3)

I agree......300hp should not be tough for a 6port AT. A 4 port can achieve substantial improvement from stock by any method of FI.

BlakOuT

I agree with this statement about the 6ports, that's why I believe more attention should be focused on the 4ports. As said by Brettus most ATs don't find their way over 200whp, but when you think about it, most are using the Greddy turbo which is pretty small. I believe with the MazdaManiac upgrade kit they could make well over that "barrier" that's been holding the 4ports back. I don't want to be too optimistic about what kind of power they can make with that setup but I'll just say between 210-225whp
I also believe the main thing holding us back from achieving greater power with our cars, 4 and 6port, is the intake manifold. The only way to achieve this greater power is to have a respected shop create a manifold out of a more durable material. A lot of people love to compare the older rotaries to our Rx8s, but the only way they got to the power levels they're making is years and years of trial and error. I believe it won't take as long for the 8 community to reach these levels since the information is there in front of us we just have to go through some trial and errors to make it happen.
I don't no if my assumptions are correct or will be accepted but that's just my thought on the matter.
(Sorry about the sort of long write up)

Phil's 8

iTrader: (3)

I don't plan on opening mouth and inserting foot here but I am to believe MM and Ray (and I do), one problem with the 4 port is getting it to accept more air - hell I can get more gas in it than it can use but it also takes air. Ray and I are presently attempting to force more air (boost) into the 4 port and we seem to be doing that but MM will have to come along and make it drivable. If I can remember to post (or have any thing to post about), we may have a little more information after this weekend.
I am not sure about the manifold but will keep an open mind. I am attempting to do everything I can to get a 4 port to it's maximum output but need to rely on the experts.
O9Factor is presently doing some things to his turbo ride (bigger turbo) and only giving us limited information (I don't blame him). He was an innovator with his first install so I expect to see wonders come from this one.

EMart11b

iTrader: (5)

I plan on getting the Pettit for my 6 port AT but that won't be for 2 years, gotta go and return from Iraq to bankroll it!

mperformance

also with a restrictive 4 port design you are effectively increasing air intake pressure which in turn heats up the air a lot more than the 6 port. A bigger turbo will help push more air but MAT will always be higher on the 4 port than the 6 port in my opinion; so much better tuning and a concern with intake air temps should be priority to prevent detonation. A better intake design should be priority and I agree with BlackOUT. Turbo RX-7 always have a totally different TB and intake design than NA versions.

my .2 cents from what I have learned with my turbo FC. I actually need to get a new intake elbow for it due to the stock restriction car is running a turbonetics 60-1 so imagine the restriction Im getting using the stock intake elbow.

BTW 2 post in this forum... I just got a slow a$$ 4 port AT RX-8 2 days ago... but I love it.

BlakOuT

I understand that it may be difficult to force more air into the 4 ports but isn't that why they started porting? I thought the whole idea of porting was to increase the airflow which in turn creates more power over stock. I mean I could be wrong but im still researching porting. I have a friend who's knowledgable about rotaries and he claims the 4 ports are better for porting because the power gains are higher than the 6 ports. I don't know if this is true or not but i've read nearly the same exact thing on other sources for rotary information.
I've been keeping up with 09Factors thread and I think its great what he's doing because it opens new possibilities for those that give up hope on their "slow" 4 ports. I hope to do a custom turbo setup a few years from now so I can maybe set a new bar as to how much power we can squeeze out of these engines.

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

^^^ I'm pretty sure Phil's engine IS ported.

Red Devil

I'm thinking by the time a couple years comes your goals of 275-300 whp will have been exceeded on the 4 port

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

300whp on a 4port is a very lofty goal.

Red Devil

In my experiences the 4 port responds well to FI and baselines NA on a Mustang dyno around 145 whp with simple bolt-ons. I don't believe a little more than doubling the hp is lofty. How much cash it will cost is of course an entirely different issue.

Phil's 8

iTrader: (3)

Yes it is. Ray and Erick did it on my last rebuild. Erick tells me that due to the design of the irons that not a lot could be done.

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

RedDevil: look at Phil's car. over $15,000 later and still not at 300whp.
This isn't a stab at Phil's car but I would hate for people to walk in here thinking that 300whp will be easily achieved with FI.

Will it be done? Yeah, I'm sure SOMEONE will do it eventually with a 4port but at what cost?! Certainly not any cost that would seem 'reasonable' to most.


Phil: I think I have pics of your ported engine. Lemme go look...

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

yup, found it.

Phil's 8

iTrader: (3)

You do a better job of keeping track of my engine than I do. Yup that's it. I was not yet going to say that I have not made 300hp cuz I'm still working on it - but it is a fight. $ are one thing labor is another......you can not believe the hours spent here. Some day I'll find a dyno that is working and have it done just to see what I have.

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

Phil: SoCal Dyno Day 2010 is just around the corner.
We've got a great dyno shop; same one that we used last year. You just bring that sexy beast of a car and we'll see what she throws down.

Phil's 8

iTrader: (3)

Unless I blow another engine, put me on the list.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

I think it would be relatively easy to make 270whp on an AT 4port . looking at my 300+whp 6 port dyno I can see that it makes 285whp even before the aux port opens . At this point it is still a 4 port motor .
Taking the extra losses from an AT of say 15whp you should see 270whp at around 10-11 pounds of boost .
Just needs someone to actually try boosting at that level . I really can't see what is so hard about that .....

Red Devil

The cost should be no different to reach 300whp on the 4 port than what it costs for the 6 port model. It will just take more boost for the lower rpm limit.

I don't want to use Phil for the debate as he is one owner with one car and a chosen upgrade path, etc...

I have yet to see anyone place a kit on their car that was intended for more than 60-70 bhp. The Petitt kit was never really meant to add more as far as it's pulley drives, and I have yet to see someone with the 5" pulley post a dyno. When someone slaps on a kit that was meant for higher boost levels like the Esmeril than we'll see just how the 4 port AT does.

Mr.We$t

iTrader: (1)

does any know of any YouTube videos that have AT 8 turbo charged or one that has FI?

bhop

Was there any talks about esmeril hooking up an automatic. Do you think it will be to much for a 4 port.

Phil's 8

iTrader: (3)

Your not trying it - I would prefer not to loose another engine. I'll just take my time.

I beg to differ with you on the cost. If it was only cost hell mine would have been there a long time ago and several of those that chose the turbo way would also be there. If you would read Pettit's little sales pitch on the s/c you would see that at some point he was going to offer (and now has)a different pulley package. The pulley package has been out for sometime on the 6 port MTs and just recently Pettit released it for the 4 port models. I am taking my time with everything so that I do not loose an engine. I may do a dyno when the Cali club does their dyno days but until then it will be taking my time to make sure it's right. As for what the added hp is from the kit on the 6 ports, you may want to visit the Pettit owners thread and ask those that have it.

Red Devil

I'm aware of the upgrade, if you would take a look at my post again I specifically mentioned the 5" pulley, the standard Pettit kit has a 4.5" one instead (I'm looking at it as I write this on my desk). The 4.5" option is what I was referring to and that was not intended for higher boost.

As for everything else, I'm looking forward to seeing your dyno results.

Easy_E1

iTrader: (2)

Here are some of the pics during the porting I did for Phil's engine. These are unfinished. Only issue is Mazda made the ports as big as they could. They really didn't leave a lot of room for enlargement. The water jacket is close to the port sides so you can't cut a whole lot out.
Mainly what I did was to smooth the flow. There are some casting edges inside the port that were removed. And made the trailing edge a bit higher and a little larger.





Now as discussed I don't see an issue with obtaining 275+ WHP out of the 4 port with porting and a decent FI kit.

I still need to dyno mine since the 75 shot was hooked up and tuned and the dwell reset on the BHR coils. I'm thinking I have a little over 200 WHP at this point in time.
Plus we are still working on a few things with the higher N2O shots. 100 shot here I come.

BlakOuT

That may be true but im not being super clear with my intentions on here. I plan to put the Esmeril Racing turbo kit on my car and see what type of power i'll be making. Then after i'll try to create a custom turbo kit that includes an upgraded intake manifold, turbocharger, and the works. I was thinking switch to a manual transmission to accomodate the extra power that im shooting for. My goals by then would be from whatever power I make with the Esmeril Turbo to 450whp (there goes my optimism again) I believe anythings possible.