Hood Ventilation Ideas
09-13-2007, 06:53 AM
#277
Registered
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 3,754
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Talking about discussions: this thread went like HOLY ****!!!! LOL
people left and will be "sucking in" the air at high speeds inside their hoods and disrupting the radiator air flow, causing fans to come on more frequently. lots of fun...
By the way, loved the idea. +5 for inventing a new angle to the argument.
people left and will be "sucking in" the air at high speeds inside their hoods and disrupting the radiator air flow, causing fans to come on more frequently. lots of fun...
By the way, loved the idea. +5 for inventing a new angle to the argument.
so lets see the possibilities of how this mod works...
a) it doesn't and its a placebo effect... and you owe people $ for new hoods
b) your results are radiator fans on and not your hood
c) by packing MORE air under the hood, it increases flow past the radiators
d) the Renesis shows unheard of ability for a water cooled engine to be air cooled
09-13-2007, 09:19 AM
#279
RotoRocks Powered
Thread Starter
you'd think that given 4 out of the 4 people in this thread that actually took the 5 minutes to verify which way the air flows and found the air to be "sucking in"... you might consider it to be "real"
so lets see the possibilities of how this mod works...
a) it doesn't and its a placebo effect... and you owe people $ for new hoods
b) your results are radiator fans on and not your hood
c) by packing MORE air under the hood, it increases flow past the radiators
d) the Renesis shows unheard of ability for a water cooled engine to be air cooled
so lets see the possibilities of how this mod works...
a) it doesn't and its a placebo effect... and you owe people $ for new hoods
b) your results are radiator fans on and not your hood
c) by packing MORE air under the hood, it increases flow past the radiators
d) the Renesis shows unheard of ability for a water cooled engine to be air cooled
Now I'll unsubscribe from from my own tread.
09-13-2007, 10:02 AM
#280
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Misinformation Director - Evolv Chicago
Posts: 3,086
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
intersteing thing about this whole discussion-
i read a quote from Jim Mederer recently about how Mazda has shown less and less ability(or has made more styling over substrance decisions) over the years between rx-7s and rx-8s to get proper good airflow thru the radiator and that he/they at Racing Beat have found on the 3rd gen and the 8 that a splitter/diverter spoiler thing that created better flow to/thru the radiator/engine bay made a huge difference in cooling efficiency/keeping the temps down.
now to just find it again.
maybe ill just email jim.
i read a quote from Jim Mederer recently about how Mazda has shown less and less ability(or has made more styling over substrance decisions) over the years between rx-7s and rx-8s to get proper good airflow thru the radiator and that he/they at Racing Beat have found on the 3rd gen and the 8 that a splitter/diverter spoiler thing that created better flow to/thru the radiator/engine bay made a huge difference in cooling efficiency/keeping the temps down.
now to just find it again.
maybe ill just email jim.
09-13-2007, 01:54 PM
#282
Power!!
It's in Racing Beat's catalog and tech manual. It says what we're all trying to say. That the engine compartment doesn't evacuate well so there is cooling improvement to be had by increasing the airflow out of the engine compartment.
09-13-2007, 03:05 PM
#285
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Misinformation Director - Evolv Chicago
Posts: 3,086
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I honestly don't follow. Setting thin plastic streamers on the hood at the windshield clearly shows at speed that the streamers are sucked into the engine compartment. I don't care what any of the airflow examples or graphs have shown otherwise. I've seen it with my own eyes, as apparently have others.
Have you done this to verify for yourself?
Or have you done this after you performed this mod on your own car and found it changed the airflow?
I have not performed this mod on my car, but I suspect this would cause more air to flow in from the top of the hood and down around the engine and through the underside of the car. And apparently, in this fashion it is helping cooling.
Have you done this to verify for yourself?
Or have you done this after you performed this mod on your own car and found it changed the airflow?
I have not performed this mod on my car, but I suspect this would cause more air to flow in from the top of the hood and down around the engine and through the underside of the car. And apparently, in this fashion it is helping cooling.
09-13-2007, 04:05 PM
#286
Registered
Just because the streamer, or tufts, or whatever, point into the hood at speed (I am taking your word on this) does not mean there is no improvement in the air flow through the engine compartment.
It may mean that some turbulence or other condition was removed under the hood that allows better air flow through the radiator. It would be my guess that the improved air flow is mostly through the normal exits.
We have experience that shows better cooling at idle and at speed. We need to explain that, not deny it.
I for one, have no way of explaining or observing what the airflow under the hood is before or after this change.
So it is all talk until we come up with some way to demonstrate this.
But I am a sucker for bench racing!
It may mean that some turbulence or other condition was removed under the hood that allows better air flow through the radiator. It would be my guess that the improved air flow is mostly through the normal exits.
We have experience that shows better cooling at idle and at speed. We need to explain that, not deny it.
I for one, have no way of explaining or observing what the airflow under the hood is before or after this change.
So it is all talk until we come up with some way to demonstrate this.
But I am a sucker for bench racing!
Last edited by jeffe19007; 09-13-2007 at 04:09 PM.
09-13-2007, 05:00 PM
#287
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Misinformation Director - Evolv Chicago
Posts: 3,086
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just because the streamer, or tufts, or whatever, point into the hood at speed (I am taking your word on this) does not mean there is no improvement in the air flow through the engine compartment.
It may mean that some turbulence or other condition was removed under the hood that allows better air flow through the radiator. It would be my guess that the improved air flow is mostly through the normal exits.
So it is all talk until we come up with some way to demonstrate this.
It may mean that some turbulence or other condition was removed under the hood that allows better air flow through the radiator. It would be my guess that the improved air flow is mostly through the normal exits.
So it is all talk until we come up with some way to demonstrate this.
Right, I'm just clarifiying from my viewpoint/experience that the normal exits are perhaps not as some suspect. I think some of us have demonstrated how the air flows - at least to the extent of how it flows when in OEM form, by some very basic testing. My only point of contention is that it appears many assume with or without the modification that air is flowing from the engine bay and up and over the windshield/roof. But from my findings, and apparently others, this is not so and it is in fact the opposite.
I also think regardless of which way the air has flowed or is flowing after the modification that this appears to have some tangible benefit from the various accounts. If I had cooling issues, that I don't since I'm NA and don't live in a very hot climate, than I may be tempted to try this mod myself.
And damn, now I'm running in circles on this subject.
Whatever, if it's working for those that did it and they're happy than that's all the matters. I'm out.
09-13-2007, 07:49 PM
#289
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
get proper good airflow thru the radiator and that he/they at Racing Beat have found on the 3rd gen and the 8 that a splitter/diverter spoiler thing that created better flow to/thru the radiator/engine bay made a huge difference in cooling efficiency/keeping the temps down.
09-14-2007, 08:07 PM
#292
Power!!
From Racing beats Water Cooling Tech tips:
"...Starting in 1993 the capacity of the stock cooling system was designed by Mazda to barely meet the needs of the stock car with no excess capacity for very demanding situations or modifications that increase the heat load on the engine. Based on a number of tests, we believe the primary cause of this problem is aerodynamic. In both the 1993-1995 RX-7 and RX-8, the air path out of the radiator is convoluted and restricted - leading to high water and oil temperatures. We have tried larger radiators, and to date, they have not helped. We have seen some improvement from improved sealing and directing the air into the radiator (using a spoiler lip under the vehicle) to create a lower pressure area under the car, to remove hot air."
The point Racing Beat is making is that the problem with the cooling system is evacuation of air from the engine bay to allow for more airflow through the radiator. They looked at trying to move more air out under the car (which is relatively high pressure). This mod is moving more air out of the engine bay through the rear of hood.
"...Starting in 1993 the capacity of the stock cooling system was designed by Mazda to barely meet the needs of the stock car with no excess capacity for very demanding situations or modifications that increase the heat load on the engine. Based on a number of tests, we believe the primary cause of this problem is aerodynamic. In both the 1993-1995 RX-7 and RX-8, the air path out of the radiator is convoluted and restricted - leading to high water and oil temperatures. We have tried larger radiators, and to date, they have not helped. We have seen some improvement from improved sealing and directing the air into the radiator (using a spoiler lip under the vehicle) to create a lower pressure area under the car, to remove hot air."
The point Racing Beat is making is that the problem with the cooling system is evacuation of air from the engine bay to allow for more airflow through the radiator. They looked at trying to move more air out under the car (which is relatively high pressure). This mod is moving more air out of the engine bay through the rear of hood.
09-14-2007, 08:18 PM
#293
From Racing beats Water Cooling Tech tips:
"...Starting in 1993 the capacity of the stock cooling system was designed by Mazda to barely meet the needs of the stock car with no excess capacity for very demanding situations or modifications that increase the heat load on the engine. Based on a number of tests, we believe the primary cause of this problem is aerodynamic. In both the 1993-1995 RX-7 and RX-8, the air path out of the radiator is convoluted and restricted - leading to high water and oil temperatures. We have tried larger radiators, and to date, they have not helped. We have seen some improvement from improved sealing and directing the air into the radiator (using a spoiler lip under the vehicle) to create a lower pressure area under the car, to remove hot air."
The point Racing Beat is making is that the problem with the cooling system is evacuation of air from the engine bay to allow for more airflow through the radiator. They looked at trying to move more air out under the car (which is relatively high pressure). This mod is moving more air out of the engine bay through the rear of hood.
"...Starting in 1993 the capacity of the stock cooling system was designed by Mazda to barely meet the needs of the stock car with no excess capacity for very demanding situations or modifications that increase the heat load on the engine. Based on a number of tests, we believe the primary cause of this problem is aerodynamic. In both the 1993-1995 RX-7 and RX-8, the air path out of the radiator is convoluted and restricted - leading to high water and oil temperatures. We have tried larger radiators, and to date, they have not helped. We have seen some improvement from improved sealing and directing the air into the radiator (using a spoiler lip under the vehicle) to create a lower pressure area under the car, to remove hot air."
The point Racing Beat is making is that the problem with the cooling system is evacuation of air from the engine bay to allow for more airflow through the radiator. They looked at trying to move more air out under the car (which is relatively high pressure). This mod is moving more air out of the engine bay through the rear of hood.
you seem to always be digging up cool bits of info Shaun - great stuff
09-14-2007, 08:29 PM
#294
From Racing beats Water Cooling Tech tips:
"...Starting in 1993 the capacity of the stock cooling system was designed by Mazda to barely meet the needs of the stock car with no excess capacity for very demanding situations or modifications that increase the heat load on the engine. Based on a number of tests, we believe the primary cause of this problem is aerodynamic. In both the 1993-1995 RX-7 and RX-8, the air path out of the radiator is convoluted and restricted - leading to high water and oil temperatures. We have tried larger radiators, and to date, they have not helped. We have seen some improvement from improved sealing and directing the air into the radiator (using a spoiler lip under the vehicle) to create a lower pressure area under the car, to remove hot air."
The point Racing Beat is making is that the problem with the cooling system is evacuation of air from the engine bay to allow for more airflow through the radiator. They looked at trying to move more air out under the car (which is relatively high pressure). This mod is moving more air out of the engine bay through the rear of hood.
"...Starting in 1993 the capacity of the stock cooling system was designed by Mazda to barely meet the needs of the stock car with no excess capacity for very demanding situations or modifications that increase the heat load on the engine. Based on a number of tests, we believe the primary cause of this problem is aerodynamic. In both the 1993-1995 RX-7 and RX-8, the air path out of the radiator is convoluted and restricted - leading to high water and oil temperatures. We have tried larger radiators, and to date, they have not helped. We have seen some improvement from improved sealing and directing the air into the radiator (using a spoiler lip under the vehicle) to create a lower pressure area under the car, to remove hot air."
The point Racing Beat is making is that the problem with the cooling system is evacuation of air from the engine bay to allow for more airflow through the radiator. They looked at trying to move more air out under the car (which is relatively high pressure). This mod is moving more air out of the engine bay through the rear of hood.
09-14-2007, 11:57 PM
#295
Power!!
^^That's what I was referring to by "this mod" The one described in this thread. I agree the air doesn't move out from the rear of the hood in stock form because it's sealed up. That's the point of the mod. To open up the rear of the hood and allow air to flow out.
09-15-2007, 01:33 AM
#299
I don't buy Kool-Aid
The pressure at the base of the windscreen is NEVER as high as the pressure at the nose!
Why doesn't anyone get that?
On an airplane wing, which force is a greater contributor of lift:
1) The low pressure area above the wing
2) The high pressure area below the wing
If you do not have at least 40 hours in your log book, consider that a rhetorical question.
Why doesn't anyone get that?
On an airplane wing, which force is a greater contributor of lift:
1) The low pressure area above the wing
2) The high pressure area below the wing
If you do not have at least 40 hours in your log book, consider that a rhetorical question.
Having a steeply raked windshield to avoid pressure build up in front is good. The air pressure is high as the air rammed into the front grill of the car. What is really happening is that the air slows down as it approaches the front of the car, and as a result more molecules are packed into a smaller space. Once the air Stagnates at the point in front of the car, it seeks a lower pressure area, such as the sides, top and bottom of the car.
The lower pressure area above the hood of the car creates a small lifting force that acts upon the area of the hood (Sort of like trying to suck the hood off the car). The higher pressure area in front of the windscreen creates a small (or not so small) downforce. This is akin to pressing down on the windshield.