Flywheel flywheels flywheels.
01-20-2008, 04:44 PM
#402
The Professor
Now, what I want to know. Is at what RPM he is making this claim at. Its pretty easy to spin the thing up to 20,000 rpm, read it as being off 3.5 oz inches and claim it as an "upgrade" to sell more parts.
01-20-2008, 05:12 PM
#404
The Professor
01-20-2008, 05:29 PM
#405
The easiest answer is that a casual rule-of-thumb says that each pound of mass removed from a flywheel will lead to an effective 2.7 h.p. to the rear wheels. My 9.5 lb. and 8.5 lb. 'wheels have each led to a .3s reduction in 1/4 mile times.
When discussing this issue with clients I also use 40 h.p. for driveline losses in factory trim and 25 h.p. with a light flywheel. Speed Source is said to use 33 h.p. for driveline loss figures. I don't know what they use for a flywheel, though.
So, what you are saying is: Act Prolite w/counter weight = 9.68 lbs.
Stock fly = 16.8 a 8 lb savings or 8 x 2.7 = 21.6 hp gain.
Is that how I read it...
However, I am speaking in general terms which can be used to answer the question, "Is a light flywheel worth the money/trouble to install"? My answer is, "Yes".
When discussing this issue with clients I also use 40 h.p. for driveline losses in factory trim and 25 h.p. with a light flywheel. Speed Source is said to use 33 h.p. for driveline loss figures. I don't know what they use for a flywheel, though.
So, what you are saying is: Act Prolite w/counter weight = 9.68 lbs.
Stock fly = 16.8 a 8 lb savings or 8 x 2.7 = 21.6 hp gain.
Is that how I read it...
However, I am speaking in general terms which can be used to answer the question, "Is a light flywheel worth the money/trouble to install"? My answer is, "Yes".
01-20-2008, 05:46 PM
#406
The Professor
The easiest answer is that a casual rule-of-thumb says that each pound of mass removed from a flywheel will lead to an effective 2.7 h.p. to the rear wheels. My 9.5 lb. and 8.5 lb. 'wheels have each led to a .3s reduction in 1/4 mile times.
When discussing this issue with clients I also use 40 h.p. for driveline losses in factory trim and 25 h.p. with a light flywheel. Speed Source is said to use 33 h.p. for driveline loss figures. I don't know what they use for a flywheel, though.
So, what you are saying is: Act Prolite w/counter weight = 9.68 lbs.
Stock fly = 16.8 a 8 lb savings or 8 x 2.7 = 21.6 hp gain.
Is that how I read it...
However, I am speaking in general terms which can be used to answer the question, "Is a light flywheel worth the money/trouble to install"? My answer is, "Yes".
When discussing this issue with clients I also use 40 h.p. for driveline losses in factory trim and 25 h.p. with a light flywheel. Speed Source is said to use 33 h.p. for driveline loss figures. I don't know what they use for a flywheel, though.
So, what you are saying is: Act Prolite w/counter weight = 9.68 lbs.
Stock fly = 16.8 a 8 lb savings or 8 x 2.7 = 21.6 hp gain.
Is that how I read it...
However, I am speaking in general terms which can be used to answer the question, "Is a light flywheel worth the money/trouble to install"? My answer is, "Yes".
Uh, the counterweight doesn't weigh .18 lbs.
Plus your forgetting all the bolts.
Plug your forgetting the matter of the pressure plate and any clutch swaps to different (and physically heavier ) clutches.
01-20-2008, 05:49 PM
#407
The Professor
well, not until Black Halo Racing introduces its new ultra-lightweight flywheel and clutch setup that will blow companies out of the water on pedal feel, acceleration speed, and reliability. Rumor has it that total weigh of the ENTIRE assembly of clutch and flywheel will weight as much as the mazdaspeed flywheel weighs right now!
Give it a month or two for some pics.
Last edited by staticlag; 01-20-2008 at 05:51 PM.
01-26-2008, 11:17 PM
#408
Well.. I just got back from track day and the Prolite was just what I was looking for.
Plenty of pull in third.. It was on the fastest track in the West.
Now, I need to try a short twisty track.
Plenty of pull in third.. It was on the fastest track in the West.
Now, I need to try a short twisty track.
Last edited by Razz1; 02-05-2008 at 09:34 PM.
02-05-2008, 09:08 PM
#409
Guest
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the 12 pound flywheels should be better right? they are lighter
what you should be looking at more that weight, is the weight distribution on the flywheel. this is called the moment of inertia. we did an experiment in high school and when the weight is distributed in a larger area, the moment of inertia is smaller, meaning it is easier to move and easier to stop
the ACT one has a lot of its weight condensed in one place which means it has a larger moment of inertia than if it had no holes. this makes it harder to move and harder to stop. it may not make a huge difference from the stock flywheel since the stock flywheel has its weight distributed throughout the flywheel.
knowing the physics, SR motorsports would be better because the weight is distributed throught. fidanza and racing beat would be more effective because they have the same concept but less weight.
anyone agree? disagree?
given this knowledge, anyone know the best flywheel?
what you should be looking at more that weight, is the weight distribution on the flywheel. this is called the moment of inertia. we did an experiment in high school and when the weight is distributed in a larger area, the moment of inertia is smaller, meaning it is easier to move and easier to stop
the ACT one has a lot of its weight condensed in one place which means it has a larger moment of inertia than if it had no holes. this makes it harder to move and harder to stop. it may not make a huge difference from the stock flywheel since the stock flywheel has its weight distributed throughout the flywheel.
knowing the physics, SR motorsports would be better because the weight is distributed throught. fidanza and racing beat would be more effective because they have the same concept but less weight.
anyone agree? disagree?
given this knowledge, anyone know the best flywheel?
02-06-2008, 01:16 AM
#410
But you fell asleep half way through didn't you ......
Wrong
.
the ACT one has a lot of its weight condensed in one place which means it has a larger moment of inertia than if it had no holes. this makes it harder to move and harder to stop. it may not make a huge difference from the stock flywheel since the stock flywheel has its weight distributed throughout the flywheel.
the ACT one has a lot of its weight condensed in one place which means it has a larger moment of inertia than if it had no holes. this makes it harder to move and harder to stop. it may not make a huge difference from the stock flywheel since the stock flywheel has its weight distributed throughout the flywheel.
02-06-2008, 09:46 AM
#411
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the 12 pound flywheels should be better right? they are lighter
what you should be looking at more that weight, is the weight distribution on the flywheel. this is called the moment of inertia. we did an experiment in high school and when the weight is distributed in a larger area, the moment of inertia is smaller, meaning it is easier to move and easier to stop
the ACT one has a lot of its weight condensed in one place which means it has a larger moment of inertia than if it had no holes. this makes it harder to move and harder to stop. it may not make a huge difference from the stock flywheel since the stock flywheel has its weight distributed throughout the flywheel.
knowing the physics, SR motorsports would be better because the weight is distributed throught. fidanza and racing beat would be more effective because they have the same concept but less weight.
anyone agree? disagree?
given this knowledge, anyone know the best flywheel?
what you should be looking at more that weight, is the weight distribution on the flywheel. this is called the moment of inertia. we did an experiment in high school and when the weight is distributed in a larger area, the moment of inertia is smaller, meaning it is easier to move and easier to stop
the ACT one has a lot of its weight condensed in one place which means it has a larger moment of inertia than if it had no holes. this makes it harder to move and harder to stop. it may not make a huge difference from the stock flywheel since the stock flywheel has its weight distributed throughout the flywheel.
knowing the physics, SR motorsports would be better because the weight is distributed throught. fidanza and racing beat would be more effective because they have the same concept but less weight.
anyone agree? disagree?
given this knowledge, anyone know the best flywheel?
you have the right concept, but poor execution.
you do want the weight well displaced, and you do want as little of it as you can. (for our case)
but here is where you went wrong. (this has been discussed many times over again in this thread by the way)
You want the weight as close to the center as you can get it. which means you want to remove as much as you can from the outer edge as you can first.
Lets say you have to have a flywheel that weight 10 pounds due to rules. flywheel A has all its weight removed from the outer edge, and wheel B has its weight all through out, or even worse, on the outer edge. flywheel B will be much harder to start and stop. This is due to leverage.
If all the weight is on the outer edge it has more leverage against the engine. kinda like if you were to put a 10 pound weight on the end of a 2 foot bar and try to have someone hold the other end and move the weight up. they would not be able to.... now simply move the wight to the other end (the end they are holding), then its nothing more the a 10 lb weight in which they could move easily. you didnt change the TOTAL weight, but you DID change how hard the person (engine) has to work to move the 10 pounds.
now consider an engine spnning 8,000 times a minute, up and down, up and down.... just a lcouple pounds removed from the outer edge can make a decent change. (you will notice this more on any car OTHER then an RX-8. the RX-8 does not seem to care to much about a lightened flywheel.)
02-07-2008, 09:20 AM
#413
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^^^ nope... NOT ACT.
I dont think any of them put most of the weight on the outside, but they do distribute it evenly. ACT and a couple others you can tell made sure to remove it from the outer edge, some didnt.
the stock one really does have a lot of its mass on the outer edge, look at my pictures in this thread. as you can tell there is a nice thick steel ring that goes around the outer edge. (this makes it smoother to drive.)
I dont think any of them put most of the weight on the outside, but they do distribute it evenly. ACT and a couple others you can tell made sure to remove it from the outer edge, some didnt.
the stock one really does have a lot of its mass on the outer edge, look at my pictures in this thread. as you can tell there is a nice thick steel ring that goes around the outer edge. (this makes it smoother to drive.)
03-12-2008, 10:51 PM
#419
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Installing your Fidanza Flywheel.
[QUOTE=staticlag;1409773]Okie dokie,
A few findings:
stock flywheel weighs 17 lbs according to my scale.
stock clutch cover & friction disk weigh 17.5 lbs.
fidanza flywheel weighs 10.25 lbs????????????? wtf?
I didn't weight the tranny but it felt like about 130-150lbs, or it might have just been the wierd angle i was holding it at that was making it feel heavier.
no bolt weights included on any of these.
Overall impressions:
pulls harder in every gear, really starts to fly at 6+ in 1,2,3,4, and 5th havent driven around with in in 6th yet.
I would define my rx8 as pretty fast now
easier to drive because there isn't as much jerkiness when you don't rev match exactly.
easier to drive because when you blip the throttle to rev match revs raise faster.
it is not harder to drive at all, when I drove down the block the first time I was expecting some trouble, but as for engaugement point and feel of the clutch it actually feels more solid than stock & easier to drive.
On hills it takes a bit more gas, but its not something that I had to put conscious effort into to do, if you can drive stick you find yourself compensating appropriately just naturally.
I had no cels on first startup and while driving around the neighborhood, but on the interstate at about 7k i looked down and saw CEL flashing, but as soon as my REVs dropped to about 4 it went away.
overall, im pleased, but its a huge project to do if your DIY. And costly.
I know it's been a while since you installed your Fedanza Flywheel but I was reading your post and I have a few questions about the install if you can remember.
1) Did you do the install by yourself and were there any curve ***** you didn't think about?
2) How long did the entire process take you minus the misshap with the 2 1/8" nut?
3) If you had to do it over, what would you do differently to make the install go easier if doing it by yourself?
4) Outside of the cost of the Flywheel, was there any additional expenses you didn't think of at first? (minus the Impact, LOL) Such as; bolts, grease etc. Not really sure what they'd be because I've never done this before. Don't worry though I'm very mechanically inclined. I can handle this install. I'm not sure what to expect and I want to do it right with no major malfunctions.
Thank you and I appreciate your answers and any bit of advise as well. Thanks
A few findings:
stock flywheel weighs 17 lbs according to my scale.
stock clutch cover & friction disk weigh 17.5 lbs.
fidanza flywheel weighs 10.25 lbs????????????? wtf?
I didn't weight the tranny but it felt like about 130-150lbs, or it might have just been the wierd angle i was holding it at that was making it feel heavier.
no bolt weights included on any of these.
Overall impressions:
pulls harder in every gear, really starts to fly at 6+ in 1,2,3,4, and 5th havent driven around with in in 6th yet.
I would define my rx8 as pretty fast now
easier to drive because there isn't as much jerkiness when you don't rev match exactly.
easier to drive because when you blip the throttle to rev match revs raise faster.
it is not harder to drive at all, when I drove down the block the first time I was expecting some trouble, but as for engaugement point and feel of the clutch it actually feels more solid than stock & easier to drive.
On hills it takes a bit more gas, but its not something that I had to put conscious effort into to do, if you can drive stick you find yourself compensating appropriately just naturally.
I had no cels on first startup and while driving around the neighborhood, but on the interstate at about 7k i looked down and saw CEL flashing, but as soon as my REVs dropped to about 4 it went away.
overall, im pleased, but its a huge project to do if your DIY. And costly.
I know it's been a while since you installed your Fedanza Flywheel but I was reading your post and I have a few questions about the install if you can remember.
1) Did you do the install by yourself and were there any curve ***** you didn't think about?
2) How long did the entire process take you minus the misshap with the 2 1/8" nut?
3) If you had to do it over, what would you do differently to make the install go easier if doing it by yourself?
4) Outside of the cost of the Flywheel, was there any additional expenses you didn't think of at first? (minus the Impact, LOL) Such as; bolts, grease etc. Not really sure what they'd be because I've never done this before. Don't worry though I'm very mechanically inclined. I can handle this install. I'm not sure what to expect and I want to do it right with no major malfunctions.
Thank you and I appreciate your answers and any bit of advise as well. Thanks
03-12-2008, 11:17 PM
#420
Bigboy in a little car!
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thats what I was going to say... the "old" pictures you have are the Prolite, the "new" pic is the streetlite. they are not the same. 
03-12-2008, 11:26 PM
#421
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Ok. Now that I've been reading everything about clutchs etc, all different kinds of flywheels my head is completely spinning now after about 6 hours of reading.
One question I do have is(I'm new to this by the way), what the heck does FI mean in relation to N/A? I've read a lot of boards today and no one explains what they stand for. Just something short and sweet.
One question I do have is(I'm new to this by the way), what the heck does FI mean in relation to N/A? I've read a lot of boards today and no one explains what they stand for. Just something short and sweet.
03-12-2008, 11:33 PM
#422
FI = Forced Induction = Forcing Air into the Engine by using either Engine power(SuperCharger) or Exhaust Gases(Turbo Charger)
NA = Naturally Aspirated = Meaning the air will flow in to the engine *naturally* without the use of any *forcing method*.
N/A usually means Not Applicable
NA = Naturally Aspirated = Meaning the air will flow in to the engine *naturally* without the use of any *forcing method*.
N/A usually means Not Applicable
03-12-2008, 11:42 PM
#423
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By the way Charles Hill, I read about your new Clutch and Flywheel kits from BHR, really interesting and I'd say reasonably priced. I'm impressed.
I understand the whole "Flywheel Theory" and agree with you guys, it initially won't increase your hp however with a somewhat lighter Flywheel & most of the mass weight toward the center just redistributes the power and energy to the wheels quicker. Therefore providing the illusion of increased horse power when in fact the engine now has freed up a percentage of hp that was initially being stored in a heavier flywheel and basically not being used as energy(hp). Would you agree or is my interrputation completely in left flield here. Because I'm trying like hell to understand this stuff. LOL
I understand the whole "Flywheel Theory" and agree with you guys, it initially won't increase your hp however with a somewhat lighter Flywheel & most of the mass weight toward the center just redistributes the power and energy to the wheels quicker. Therefore providing the illusion of increased horse power when in fact the engine now has freed up a percentage of hp that was initially being stored in a heavier flywheel and basically not being used as energy(hp). Would you agree or is my interrputation completely in left flield here. Because I'm trying like hell to understand this stuff. LOL
03-12-2008, 11:45 PM
#424
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FI = Forced Induction = Forcing Air into the Engine by using either Engine power(SuperCharger) or Exhaust Gases(Turbo Charger)
NA = Naturally Aspirated = Meaning the air will flow in to the engine *naturally* without the use of any *forcing method*.
N/A usually means Not Applicable
NA = Naturally Aspirated = Meaning the air will flow in to the engine *naturally* without the use of any *forcing method*.
N/A usually means Not Applicable
Oh!!! Good God Damn thank you for the explanation. Now I'll be able to sleep tonight. I'm in the NA category.
03-12-2008, 11:58 PM
#425
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Sounds logical. I have no mods to my 8; 2 wks ago I installed 4 new coil packs, 4 plugs & wires and I can tell a world of difference in the pick up, performance & mpg. However I'm experiencing the "blog" I've read a lot about tonight after shifting from 1st to 2nd. It's quite annoying and it makes it seem like I don't know how to drive a stick. I learned to drive on a standard tranny and I've driven them for years. Sometimes it's smooth but mostly there's a pause. I've had the car since May 07 so I'm probably still learning about the car.
Now for the $100,000 question.........
Thinking somewhat inexpensive(reasonbly priced), everyday driver, I don't go to the track; what would you recommend as far as clutch assembly & flywheel that may be somewhat easy to install without needing anything additional? I want to distribute the hp that's sitting in the current oem flywheel to the real wheels.