elgueroloco

hey guys, i was just wondering what the heck happened with the cz2 unit. i just want to know how many of you have it and the various pros and cons. im seriously considering buying it, but not before i get my greddy headerback. i mean 40 horses sounds so nice, but i just wanted to see if it pulled through. i know theres a grip of people that have the stage 1, but theres not much talk about the second one. i do, however, recall there were some problems involved so i just want some real results and some satisfied customers opinions

brothervoodoo

From what I recall the only difference between the CZ 1 and 2 is the programmed map on the unit. Additionally, stage two requires canzoomers high flow cat and resonator replacement.

elgueroloco

i know its a different map, but i just want to hear some feedback from those who have it. but thanks anyway brothervoodoo

epitrochoid

cz2 no longer exists, if it ever did...

and i wouldn't even let the thought that any canzoomer is a bolt on 40hp (or even 20hp) even enter your head. most people get no gains from the map that the unit is shipped with (not because of lousy tuning, but because of variances between RX-8's)

get the stage 1.1 and necessary cables and tune it yourself or have it done at a shop. 40hp then isnt unrealistic, but it aint cheap.

elgueroloco

i appreciate the help epitrochoid, but ive actually gotten in contact with them and theyve told me it DOES still exist and that theyve fixed all of the bugs, however, i have yet to hear from anybody on the forums that they actually have the stage 2.
they told me there were no problems with it whatsoever.

Magic8

I still say get the Stage 1.1 and tune it yourself. I don't know what else the Stage 2 will offer other than a more agressive map. You will have the ability to tune both ignition and fuel map with the Stage 1.1. Previously the stage 1 was strictly fuel and stage 2 include both fuel and ignition. Stage 1.1 has both fuel and ignition modules.

It will be an extra $300 bucks for all the items required for proper tuning, but it will be a pretty cost effective way (in my opinion ) of increasing horsepower. Besides the Canscan can be use in any car that is OBDII compliant.

elgueroloco

yeah, youre right. i just dont want to go through the hassle of tuning it myself cause i dont know jack about it. but i guess ill give it a shot if its that promising, thanks for all the help guys

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

better yet keep an eye in the parts section of the forum for a 1.1 unit and save yourself a lot of money and then just download the stage 2 map

Magic8

Tuning is not difficult (well ignition tuning is a bit tricky) It does take a lot of time to do. It's definitely tedious.

Step 1: Get data by driving car
Step 2: Analyze data
Step 3: Make adjustment to AFR and/or Ignition Map
Step 4: Repeat 1 through 3 until you hit your target.

The ignition tuning will require that you analysis data from two sources of data acquisition systems, so tuning it will require some more work.

Want to paint a picture of what it takes to tune the CZ. I have to say again that it was worth it though.

epitrochoid

trust me, i know CZ's stuff better than he does sometimes...

there is NO difference between stage 1 and 2. (read below to see why I stand by that)

before L flash and stage 1.1 ther was a distinction between stage 1 and 2 (although no stage 2's were ever sold). Stage 1 was the regular Trust airflow board and nothing else. there were no means by which to tune (i may be wrong there, pre 1.1 CZ's may have had the USB, I can't remember). Stage two however added the necessary circuits for ignition control, but they never got it to work right. The ignition control was where the extra 20hp was at. It also was a more agressive airflow tune, hence the need for a highflow cat. While they were trying to get the ignition to work on stage 2, Mazda released the L flash, and they had to go back to the drawing board.

L flash leaned out the AFR a good bit, so not as much power was to be found from tuning just the airflow. So, in order to maintain the advertised gains of 20 hp, the timing had to be advanced more in the areas where Mazda has leaned the mixture (and subsequently lowered the advance). So, Maurice used stage 2 hardware with a modified stage 1 airflow map and a new ignition map that was as conservative as the stage 1 airflow map was. The benefit to this was more than a 20hp gain, really closer to 30hp. Stage 2 was still offered for sale, but for about 4 months Maurice didn't sell any units due to R&D of the newer model. When stage 1.1 was released, the ignition circuit still didn't work for months, but the fix for it has just come out within the past few weeks. If you ask Maurice, he will tell you there is a stage 2, but it's just a more agressive map like brothervoodoo said. The hardware is the same. I have a stage 1.1 and a stage 1 map and stage 2 map saved on my computer. I can load them onto my car at will

But here's the clincher. The reason I say there's no difference is that you're going to HAVE to scrap the map it comes with. Stage 1 or stage 2, you will still probably loose power. There's a handful (maybe 10?) of people who have said it worked just great right out of the box. They're the lucky 2%. The rest of us are stuck with rough running, slower cars due to the tune. The tune I'm sure works fine on Maurice's car, but there are so many variances in the sensors between vehicles that it isn't possbile to have a map that works 100% of the time on all cars. Many people have sucessfully tuned the unit themselves with a datacable and a canscan tool, but you inherit the risk of damaging your car by doing that. If you don't know what you're doing or your totally lost with what I've just told you, you'd better leave it to a professional and trustworthy shop.

The CZ unit is the best bang for the buck right now. Other mods add marginal gains of 4 or 5 hp at 7000+ rpm and cost just as much. You can definately get 40hp out of the CZ, but just understand how it works and you'll know what to expect from it.

veilsidev1

ok, so if you buy a cz1.1 for $400, what additional costs are there. Does anyone know how much a shop would charge to tune ut for you. What is a canscan, thanks alot

epitrochoid

youll need a datacable and a canscan. you can skip the canscan if you're taking it to a shop that has their own wideband o2 sensor. pricing is on canzoomer's website.

tuning is anyone's guess..my friend with an integra type R required 20 pulls to tune the airflow alone. he pick up 17hp at the wheels with just and intake and the tune. It was about $300 for him, but I'd expect to pay alot more. keep in mind as well that you'll need to take it to a shop with rotary expierence, and also that it's very very difficult to tune the car on a dyno. all factors that would cause it to cost more.

a canscan is a device that display readouts from all the cars sensors on a computer screen. most importantly it allows you to log your AFR and rpm so that you can visually see where changes need to be made to reach a target AFR. examples -> http://tyrannical.org/cz

Magic8

I have run lean (above 14.7) a couple of times while tuning and the car protected itself from gernading. Maybe I was lucky, but when it happens more than 3 times, then I start to think that it was designed to function that way. I'm not saying that the car won't be damage during the tune (what do I know, it's the first time I am doing something like this) but I have say that the knock sensor is doing its job and doing it quite well. The risk of gernading your engine may not be that servere.

Just as in cooking to not add too much salt all at once, you should make incremental changes to your AFR and ignition tunes. You can always add more later...

Magic8

BTW you can calculate the Horsepower from the CanScan data.

Remember acceleration = change in Velocity divided by the change in time

Xyntax

BTW, I have worked on an Excel file for that and pretty much, I don't trust the result I received. I have it graphed and all that but I'm just not convinced. It was too high. Well, I have never taken the time to weigh my car anyways. I'm just speculating the curb weight off of someone on this board who also had a base M/T and then added my weight.

I've stopped because it became an obsession for me, and it wasn't healthy. How's yours going?

Magic8

I'm actually doing well. Although I keep getting slight dips in the the 6K to 6.5K range. I'm close very close to my target. I haven't had time to work on it more this week. Once I have my finished map I'll post on the "Share Maps" thread.

I was think more of using the HP calcs as comparison between stock and CZ tuned. I wouldn't be surprised if it's higher. If the car really does protect itself on the dynos maybe this is the truest measure of HP. I think it should be better than accelerometer readings.

Xyntax

^ I agree.

epitrochoid

me too...that's why i said the dyno just isn't the place for this car...

maybe a motorcycle dyno that rolls front drums with the driven rears...the car would never know it's not on the road.

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

that was my philosophy when I put my calculator together... the only problem is you can only collect data a 1-1.5 sec intervals or it gets too jumpy for analyzing, which doesn't seem bad until you find out you missed the point where your peak hp occured :o

Magic8

Yeah I've notice that problem too. I tried a very simple Power = Fv calculation and it was very jumpy. The Velocity was not measured in an analog fashion instead it was discrete. I see the same velocity values in two different logs. Oh well. I wonder if a GPS unit is better at logging velocity.

Zaku-8

Doesnt the stock ecu have multiple maps for different situations? Does CZ take this into account somehow?

epitrochoid

the CZ works under open loop only, to which there is only one (maybe 2, one for each threesome of high and low gears). And even then its only after ~75% and up tps and ~5000+ rpm, but that can be changed.