cracking the ecu....
02-28-2006, 09:54 PM
#101
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 310
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I highly doubt anything is 3d mapwise, but it's something to consider regardless, and if it was easy, it would have been cracked in the first 6 months... so, my guess is that it's not easy, but the 3D idea is worth thinking about...
All the brainstorms are valuable, and the right one will be spot on.
EDIT: when you get a chance, can you extract the rest of the data?
All the brainstorms are valuable, and the right one will be spot on.
EDIT: when you get a chance, can you extract the rest of the data?
Last edited by Hskr8; 02-28-2006 at 10:17 PM.
03-01-2006, 02:29 AM
#103
Is this title ok?
With these patterns, the X axis have to be RPM and the Y Axis must be MAF for the main two fuel map & ignition map. I've also found 3D patterns but it's hard to analyze and extract without proper application, so those will need more time to analyze. There are 6 more which I have discovered that yet need to reveal its true form. Any volunteer?
Here are some addition,
[0x7bca4 18x1x4]
500.0 750.0 1000.0 1500.0 2000.0 2500.0 3000.0 3500.0 4000.0 4500.0 5000.0 5500.0 6000.0 6500.0 7000.0 7500.0 8000.0 8500.0
[0x7bcec 20x1x4]
0.125 0.188 0.25 0.313 0.375 0.438 0.5 0.563 0.625 0.688 0.75 0.813 0.875 0.89 0.91 0.965 0.99 1.02 1.026 1.155
[0x7bd3c 18x20x2]
21955 21955 20371 21358 19213 18573 19973 20034 16634 16999 15215 13107 18874 19661 19137 18547 18547 17498
21955 21955 20641 18032 17666 18619 19125 18134 16634 15409 15409 17170 18874 19661 19137 18547 18547 17498
20775 20775 20376 17504 17298 17767 19118 17564 15666 16353 17167 19005 18874 19661 19137 18547 18547 17498
20728 20728 18636 16824 16730 17565 17443 16430 15634 16449 17348 17170 20316 21627 19792 18416 17367 17498
20365 20365 17842 16358 15176 16936 15364 15879 15804 17052 17564 18547 21823 22610 19530 17695 15925 16384
20223 20223 16488 14973 14663 15632 14361 16261 17061 18350 18219 18219 20644 21299 19202 16712 17695 17695
20118 20118 16177 14499 14511 14717 14113 17920 17120 18022 19137 18153 20316 19464 17039 17039 19005 16712
20955 20955 16084 14814 14728 14118 14544 18434 16488 18547 19005 18153 18547 17367 19005 17826 18088 16843
22924 22924 18926 14807 15451 14123 14985 17347 19661 18022 18678 17564 17039 20185 17564 16843 16712 15729
22924 22924 18926 16872 13860 14012 14933 16522 18809 17367 18350 17039 18153 18350 16384 16056 15598 15204
22924 22924 18926 16872 15650 13572 14193 15814 18350 16843 17367 15925 16187 16384 14942 15860 15860 15073
22924 22924 18926 16872 16052 13127 12830 16712 17826 16581 16712 16384 14615 15401 14549 14746 15729 14090
22924 22924 18926 16872 16052 12899 11469 15073 16908 18481 17498 16056 13435 14090 14090 14418 15335 14090
22924 22924 18926 16872 16052 12899 12334 15545 16908 18273 17341 15899 13073 13933 13854 14261 15162 13933
22924 22924 18926 16872 16052 12899 13487 16174 16908 17995 16866 15689 12591 13723 13540 14052 14932 13723
22924 22924 18926 16872 16052 12899 15073 17039 16908 17161 15442 14968 11450 12924 12323 13565 13468 11007
22924 22924 18926 16872 16052 12899 15073 17039 16908 16883 14966 13621 11157 12609 11841 11867 11422 10101
22924 22924 18926 16872 16052 12899 15073 17039 16908 16467 14254 12004 10842 09863 11118 09831 08967 08743
22924 22924 18926 16872 16052 12899 15073 17039 16908 16386 14116 11692 07565 09332 08323 09437 08492 08480
22924 22924 18926 16872 16052 12899 15073 17039 16908 16255 13985 11561 07434 09201 08192 09306 08361 08349
This is timing for sure:
[0x7c474 19x1x4]
700.0 720.0 1000.0 1500.0 2000.0 2500.0 3000.0 3500.0 4000.0 4500.0 5000.0 5500.0 6000.0 6500.0 7000.0 7500.0 8000.0 8500.0 9000.0
[0x7c4c0 17x1x4]
0.063 0.125 0.188 0.25 0.313 0.375 0.438 0.5 0.563 0.625 0.688 0.75 0.813 0.875 0.938 1.0 1.063
[0x7c504 19x17x2]
03 03 03 03 03 03 03 03 03 05 07 07 07 11 12 15 19 19 21
03 03 03 03 03 03 03 03 03 05 07 07 07 11 15 18 20 21 22
03 03 03 03 03 03 03 03 03 05 07 07 07 11 17 19 21 22 45
03 03 03 03 03 03 03 03 03 05 07 07 07 11 18 21 22 23 45
03 03 03 03 03 03 03 04 05 06 08 07 09 12 18 22 23 45 45
03 03 03 06 03 03 03 05 06 09 10 11 12 15 21 23 45 45 45
03 06 06 09 06 05 08 08 08 11 13 14 16 19 23 45 45 45 45
03 19 19 16 16 16 19 16 14 13 15 17 17 20 45 45 45 45 45
03 19 19 16 16 16 19 16 14 15 18 19 19 20 45 45 45 45 47
03 19 19 16 16 16 19 17 16 17 20 20 20 21 45 45 45 48 50
03 19 19 18 17 16 19 18 19 20 20 21 21 21 45 45 47 49 51
03 21 21 21 19 18 19 20 21 21 21 21 21 21 45 45 48 51 54
03 21 21 22 21 21 21 21 25 25 25 25 25 45 45 45 50 54 56
03 21 21 22 21 21 21 21 26 26 26 26 26 45 45 48 52 56 59
03 21 21 22 22 22 21 21 26 26 27 26 45 45 47 52 55 58 60
03 21 21 22 22 22 22 22 26 27 27 45 45 45 48 53 55 60 60
03 21 21 22 22 22 22 22 26 27 27 45 45 45 60 60 60 60 60
Here are some addition,
[0x7bca4 18x1x4]
500.0 750.0 1000.0 1500.0 2000.0 2500.0 3000.0 3500.0 4000.0 4500.0 5000.0 5500.0 6000.0 6500.0 7000.0 7500.0 8000.0 8500.0
[0x7bcec 20x1x4]
0.125 0.188 0.25 0.313 0.375 0.438 0.5 0.563 0.625 0.688 0.75 0.813 0.875 0.89 0.91 0.965 0.99 1.02 1.026 1.155
[0x7bd3c 18x20x2]
21955 21955 20371 21358 19213 18573 19973 20034 16634 16999 15215 13107 18874 19661 19137 18547 18547 17498
21955 21955 20641 18032 17666 18619 19125 18134 16634 15409 15409 17170 18874 19661 19137 18547 18547 17498
20775 20775 20376 17504 17298 17767 19118 17564 15666 16353 17167 19005 18874 19661 19137 18547 18547 17498
20728 20728 18636 16824 16730 17565 17443 16430 15634 16449 17348 17170 20316 21627 19792 18416 17367 17498
20365 20365 17842 16358 15176 16936 15364 15879 15804 17052 17564 18547 21823 22610 19530 17695 15925 16384
20223 20223 16488 14973 14663 15632 14361 16261 17061 18350 18219 18219 20644 21299 19202 16712 17695 17695
20118 20118 16177 14499 14511 14717 14113 17920 17120 18022 19137 18153 20316 19464 17039 17039 19005 16712
20955 20955 16084 14814 14728 14118 14544 18434 16488 18547 19005 18153 18547 17367 19005 17826 18088 16843
22924 22924 18926 14807 15451 14123 14985 17347 19661 18022 18678 17564 17039 20185 17564 16843 16712 15729
22924 22924 18926 16872 13860 14012 14933 16522 18809 17367 18350 17039 18153 18350 16384 16056 15598 15204
22924 22924 18926 16872 15650 13572 14193 15814 18350 16843 17367 15925 16187 16384 14942 15860 15860 15073
22924 22924 18926 16872 16052 13127 12830 16712 17826 16581 16712 16384 14615 15401 14549 14746 15729 14090
22924 22924 18926 16872 16052 12899 11469 15073 16908 18481 17498 16056 13435 14090 14090 14418 15335 14090
22924 22924 18926 16872 16052 12899 12334 15545 16908 18273 17341 15899 13073 13933 13854 14261 15162 13933
22924 22924 18926 16872 16052 12899 13487 16174 16908 17995 16866 15689 12591 13723 13540 14052 14932 13723
22924 22924 18926 16872 16052 12899 15073 17039 16908 17161 15442 14968 11450 12924 12323 13565 13468 11007
22924 22924 18926 16872 16052 12899 15073 17039 16908 16883 14966 13621 11157 12609 11841 11867 11422 10101
22924 22924 18926 16872 16052 12899 15073 17039 16908 16467 14254 12004 10842 09863 11118 09831 08967 08743
22924 22924 18926 16872 16052 12899 15073 17039 16908 16386 14116 11692 07565 09332 08323 09437 08492 08480
22924 22924 18926 16872 16052 12899 15073 17039 16908 16255 13985 11561 07434 09201 08192 09306 08361 08349
This is timing for sure:
[0x7c474 19x1x4]
700.0 720.0 1000.0 1500.0 2000.0 2500.0 3000.0 3500.0 4000.0 4500.0 5000.0 5500.0 6000.0 6500.0 7000.0 7500.0 8000.0 8500.0 9000.0
[0x7c4c0 17x1x4]
0.063 0.125 0.188 0.25 0.313 0.375 0.438 0.5 0.563 0.625 0.688 0.75 0.813 0.875 0.938 1.0 1.063
[0x7c504 19x17x2]
03 03 03 03 03 03 03 03 03 05 07 07 07 11 12 15 19 19 21
03 03 03 03 03 03 03 03 03 05 07 07 07 11 15 18 20 21 22
03 03 03 03 03 03 03 03 03 05 07 07 07 11 17 19 21 22 45
03 03 03 03 03 03 03 03 03 05 07 07 07 11 18 21 22 23 45
03 03 03 03 03 03 03 04 05 06 08 07 09 12 18 22 23 45 45
03 03 03 06 03 03 03 05 06 09 10 11 12 15 21 23 45 45 45
03 06 06 09 06 05 08 08 08 11 13 14 16 19 23 45 45 45 45
03 19 19 16 16 16 19 16 14 13 15 17 17 20 45 45 45 45 45
03 19 19 16 16 16 19 16 14 15 18 19 19 20 45 45 45 45 47
03 19 19 16 16 16 19 17 16 17 20 20 20 21 45 45 45 48 50
03 19 19 18 17 16 19 18 19 20 20 21 21 21 45 45 47 49 51
03 21 21 21 19 18 19 20 21 21 21 21 21 21 45 45 48 51 54
03 21 21 22 21 21 21 21 25 25 25 25 25 45 45 45 50 54 56
03 21 21 22 21 21 21 21 26 26 26 26 26 45 45 48 52 56 59
03 21 21 22 22 22 21 21 26 26 27 26 45 45 47 52 55 58 60
03 21 21 22 22 22 22 22 26 27 27 45 45 45 48 53 55 60 60
03 21 21 22 22 22 22 22 26 27 27 45 45 45 60 60 60 60 60
03-01-2006, 02:36 AM
#104
Is this title ok?
Originally Posted by QBallz
I wonder how it knows which injectors to use? The P1 P2 or S?
03-01-2006, 02:43 AM
#105
Is this title ok?
Wit the Ignition map revealed, it's quite easy to determine/verify the unit/value of the Y axis by data logging the actual timing, rpm, and airflow.
Last edited by seikx8; 03-01-2006 at 02:45 AM.
03-01-2006, 02:56 AM
#106
Is this title ok?
Originally Posted by zoom44
airflow from MAF will be in grams per second.
Then those value multiplying by 100 would yield correct g/s that corresponding to voltage at idling and upper RPM range of about 3+v
03-01-2006, 05:51 AM
#107
Registered
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 581
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The load input (y-axis) in most MAFS-based strategy is not air mass in g/s but a non-dimensional parameter called LOAD. The calculation of this parameter can be found in the Hymee sCANalyser thread.
Nice to see things are progressing guys. Congratulation to all of you.
Nice to see things are progressing guys. Congratulation to all of you.
03-01-2006, 12:22 PM
#109
Administrator
.
Originally Posted by sco
LoadCalculated and LoadAbsolute are the raw values provided by the PCM - I don't do any calculations.
According to the OBD spec --
Load Calculated = [current airflow] / [(peak airflow at WOT@STP as a function of rpm) * (BARO/29.92) * SQRT(298/(AAT+273))]
STP = Standard Temperature and Pressure = 25 °C, 29.92 in Hg BARO
SQRT = square root,
WOT = wide open throttle
AAT = Ambient Air Temperature and is in °C
Given that it's comparison is against "peak airflow at WOT@STP as a function of rpm" then it will not exceed 100% for NA and FI engines. LoadAbsolute is a different story.
LoadAbsolute = [air mass (g / intake stroke)] / [1.184 (g / intake stroke) * cylinder displacement in litres]
This is derived from:
air mass (g / intake stroke) = [total engine air mass (g/sec)] / [rpm (revs/min)* (1 min / 60 sec) * (1/2 # of
cylinders (strokes / rev)],
LoadAbsolute = [air mass (g)/intake stroke] / [maximum air mass (g)/intake stroke at WOT@STP at 100% volumetric efficiency] * 100%.
Thus LoadAbsolute will typically reach to just below 100% for NA, and up to 400% for boosted engines.
According to the OBD spec --
Load Calculated = [current airflow] / [(peak airflow at WOT@STP as a function of rpm) * (BARO/29.92) * SQRT(298/(AAT+273))]
STP = Standard Temperature and Pressure = 25 °C, 29.92 in Hg BARO
SQRT = square root,
WOT = wide open throttle
AAT = Ambient Air Temperature and is in °C
Given that it's comparison is against "peak airflow at WOT@STP as a function of rpm" then it will not exceed 100% for NA and FI engines. LoadAbsolute is a different story.
LoadAbsolute = [air mass (g / intake stroke)] / [1.184 (g / intake stroke) * cylinder displacement in litres]
This is derived from:
air mass (g / intake stroke) = [total engine air mass (g/sec)] / [rpm (revs/min)* (1 min / 60 sec) * (1/2 # of
cylinders (strokes / rev)],
LoadAbsolute = [air mass (g)/intake stroke] / [maximum air mass (g)/intake stroke at WOT@STP at 100% volumetric efficiency] * 100%.
Thus LoadAbsolute will typically reach to just below 100% for NA, and up to 400% for boosted engines.
Originally Posted by Rasputin
Sco,
LOAD_ABS = [air mass (g / intake stroke)] / [1.184 (g / intake stroke) * cylinder displacement in litres]
= [total engine air mass (g/sec)] / [rpm (revs/min)* (1 min / 60 sec) * (1/2 # of
cylinders (strokes / rev)*1.184 * cylinder displacement in litres]
= AM / [ N * ENGCYL * SARCHG] = Ford EEC LOAD !!! That's the one I'm gonna use from now on as it probbaly is the load input in most tables in the calibration.
Fabrice
LOAD_ABS = [air mass (g / intake stroke)] / [1.184 (g / intake stroke) * cylinder displacement in litres]
= [total engine air mass (g/sec)] / [rpm (revs/min)* (1 min / 60 sec) * (1/2 # of
cylinders (strokes / rev)*1.184 * cylinder displacement in litres]
= AM / [ N * ENGCYL * SARCHG] = Ford EEC LOAD !!! That's the one I'm gonna use from now on as it probbaly is the load input in most tables in the calibration.
Fabrice
Originally Posted by Rasputin
They should be based on MAFS readings, excepted in the backflow region where an inferred value is used, unless the MAFS can measure backflow too.
One issue though, looking at the data. As LOAD_ABS is limited to 100% in the displays, any value above 100% comes out substracted by 100. Ex : 104.5% LOAD_ABS gives 4.05% in the log file. It's easily corrected as it happens in WOT conditions. I've seen values up to 1.1 (110%) load !! Good intake tuning!
Fabrice
One issue though, looking at the data. As LOAD_ABS is limited to 100% in the displays, any value above 100% comes out substracted by 100. Ex : 104.5% LOAD_ABS gives 4.05% in the log file. It's easily corrected as it happens in WOT conditions. I've seen values up to 1.1 (110%) load !! Good intake tuning!
Fabrice
03-01-2006, 01:17 PM
#110
Is this title ok?
So the Y-Axis will be load. Now looking at the max value, 1.25 that would translate to 125% is that an indication that the RX8 intake is very well tuned to expect that high of a value?
Now I was pondering what's the unit of the fuel cells and those cannot be in millisecond. It should be in microseconds because 1ms = 1000 microseconds, and the values we seen so far toward the max of 20000+ range. With piston engine, when injectors reach close to 20ms, their duty cycle almost reach its max.
Question for the rotary expert: Base on the characteristic of the rotary engine, what is the max value of the injectors need to open in milliseconds/microseconds when it reach 100% duty cycle at a 9000rpm? or what is the maximun range of the injectors can open at 9000rpm before it stucked open completely?
I know I can dig for these info, but I'm sure someone already know/have these answer that can be referenced.
Now I was pondering what's the unit of the fuel cells and those cannot be in millisecond. It should be in microseconds because 1ms = 1000 microseconds, and the values we seen so far toward the max of 20000+ range. With piston engine, when injectors reach close to 20ms, their duty cycle almost reach its max.
Question for the rotary expert: Base on the characteristic of the rotary engine, what is the max value of the injectors need to open in milliseconds/microseconds when it reach 100% duty cycle at a 9000rpm? or what is the maximun range of the injectors can open at 9000rpm before it stucked open completely?
I know I can dig for these info, but I'm sure someone already know/have these answer that can be referenced.
03-01-2006, 02:55 PM
#112
Is this title ok?
Cool.
The other Y-Axis should 6.5 to 16.5 psi barometer reading corresponding to 20000ft above sea to 3000ft below sea level, base on the fact that at higher altitude has thinner air, hence less fuel is needed. While the other X-Axis should be temp because when temp go up amount of air is less per volume. The relationship does show in the table by looking the 4 corners.
The other Y-Axis should 6.5 to 16.5 psi barometer reading corresponding to 20000ft above sea to 3000ft below sea level, base on the fact that at higher altitude has thinner air, hence less fuel is needed. While the other X-Axis should be temp because when temp go up amount of air is less per volume. The relationship does show in the table by looking the 4 corners.
03-01-2006, 09:37 PM
#113
Int'l Man of Mystery
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 3,651
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Hskr8
I highly doubt anything is 3d mapwise, but it's something to consider regardless, and if it was easy, it would have been cracked in the first 6 months... so, my guess is that it's not easy, but the 3D idea is worth thinking about...
All the brainstorms are valuable, and the right one will be spot on.
EDIT: when you get a chance, can you extract the rest of the data?
All the brainstorms are valuable, and the right one will be spot on.
EDIT: when you get a chance, can you extract the rest of the data?
Besides... there has to be some kind of table/map for throttle position. In the Mustang even if you floor it, the throttle doesn't always fully open. Depending on conditions/load, it will open the optimal amount to create the greatest airflow (wide-open big and slow moving air vs smaller opening and faster moving air.
03-02-2006, 03:18 AM
#115
Is this title ok?
These are some crazy stuff 
[0x8163c 10x1x4]
500.0 1000.0 1500.0 2000.0 2500.0 3000.0 3500.0 4000.0 4500.0 5000.0
[0x81690 9x1x4]
10.0 20.0 30.0 40.0 50.0 60.0 70.0 80.0 90.0
[0x816c0 8x1x4]
10.625 11.25 11.875 12.5 13.125 13.75 14.375 15.0
[0x816e0 8x1x2]
11993 11993 11993 11993 11993 11993 11993 11993
[0x816f0 8x1x4]
10.625 11.25 11.875 12.5 13.125 13.75 14.375 15.0
[0x81710 8x1x2]
04915 04915 04915 04915 04915 04915 04915 04915
[0x8173c 9x1x4]
10.0 20.0 30.0 40.0 50.0 60.0 70.0 80.0 90.0
[0x81760 9x1x2]
16407 16407 16407 16407 16407 16407 16407 16407 16407
[0x81774 9x1x4]
10.0 20.0 30.0 40.0 50.0 60.0 70.0 80.0 90.0
[0x81798 9x1x2]
10486 10486 10486 10486 10486 10486 10486 10486 10486
[0x817bc 9x1x4]
10.0 20.0 30.0 40.0 50.0 60.0 70.0 80.0 90.0
[0x817e0 9x1x4]
0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
[0x81804 9x1x4]
10.0 20.0 30.0 40.0 50.0 60.0 70.0 80.0 90.0
[0x81828 9x1x4]
0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
[0x8184c 9x1x4]
10.0 20.0 30.0 40.0 50.0 60.0 70.0 80.0 90.0
[0x81870 9x1x4]
0.061 0.066 0.071 0.076 0.08 0.085 0.09 0.095 0.1
[0x7c648 19x1x4]
700.0 720.0 1000.0 1500.0 2000.0 2500.0 3000.0 3500.0 4000.0 4500.0 5000.0 5500.0 6000.0 6500.0 7000.0 7500.0 8000.0 8500.0 9000.0
[0x7c694 4x1x4]
60.0 65.0 70.0 80.0
[0x7c6a4 19x4x1]
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
03 19 19 20 19 21 21 21 26 26 26 34 45 45 48 52 55 57 60
03 19 19 20 19 21 21 21 26 26 26 34 45 45 48 52 55 57 60
03 19 19 20 19 21 21 21 26 26 26 34 45 45 48 52 55 57 60
[0x7c700 11x1x4]
0.125 0.25 0.375 0.5 0.625 0.75 0.875 1.0 1.125 1.25 3.004
[0x7c734 16x1x4]
-40.0 -30.0 -20.0 -10.0 0.0 10.0 20.0 30.0 40.0 50.0 60.0 70.0 80.0 90.0 100.0 110.0
[0x7c780 8x3x2]
19265 14115 06162 02054 01285 01281 00000 00000
19265 14115 06162 02054 01285 01281 00000 00000
19265 14115 06162 02054 01026 00256 00000 00000
[0x7c7b0 6x1x4]
1000.0 1250.0 1500.0 1750.0 2000.0 5.0
[0x7c7c4 5x1x4]
5.0 15.0 20.0 30.0 40.0
[0x8163c 10x1x4]
500.0 1000.0 1500.0 2000.0 2500.0 3000.0 3500.0 4000.0 4500.0 5000.0
[0x81690 9x1x4]
10.0 20.0 30.0 40.0 50.0 60.0 70.0 80.0 90.0
[0x816c0 8x1x4]
10.625 11.25 11.875 12.5 13.125 13.75 14.375 15.0
[0x816e0 8x1x2]
11993 11993 11993 11993 11993 11993 11993 11993
[0x816f0 8x1x4]
10.625 11.25 11.875 12.5 13.125 13.75 14.375 15.0
[0x81710 8x1x2]
04915 04915 04915 04915 04915 04915 04915 04915
[0x8173c 9x1x4]
10.0 20.0 30.0 40.0 50.0 60.0 70.0 80.0 90.0
[0x81760 9x1x2]
16407 16407 16407 16407 16407 16407 16407 16407 16407
[0x81774 9x1x4]
10.0 20.0 30.0 40.0 50.0 60.0 70.0 80.0 90.0
[0x81798 9x1x2]
10486 10486 10486 10486 10486 10486 10486 10486 10486
[0x817bc 9x1x4]
10.0 20.0 30.0 40.0 50.0 60.0 70.0 80.0 90.0
[0x817e0 9x1x4]
0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
[0x81804 9x1x4]
10.0 20.0 30.0 40.0 50.0 60.0 70.0 80.0 90.0
[0x81828 9x1x4]
0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
[0x8184c 9x1x4]
10.0 20.0 30.0 40.0 50.0 60.0 70.0 80.0 90.0
[0x81870 9x1x4]
0.061 0.066 0.071 0.076 0.08 0.085 0.09 0.095 0.1
[0x7c648 19x1x4]
700.0 720.0 1000.0 1500.0 2000.0 2500.0 3000.0 3500.0 4000.0 4500.0 5000.0 5500.0 6000.0 6500.0 7000.0 7500.0 8000.0 8500.0 9000.0
[0x7c694 4x1x4]
60.0 65.0 70.0 80.0
[0x7c6a4 19x4x1]
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
03 19 19 20 19 21 21 21 26 26 26 34 45 45 48 52 55 57 60
03 19 19 20 19 21 21 21 26 26 26 34 45 45 48 52 55 57 60
03 19 19 20 19 21 21 21 26 26 26 34 45 45 48 52 55 57 60
[0x7c700 11x1x4]
0.125 0.25 0.375 0.5 0.625 0.75 0.875 1.0 1.125 1.25 3.004
[0x7c734 16x1x4]
-40.0 -30.0 -20.0 -10.0 0.0 10.0 20.0 30.0 40.0 50.0 60.0 70.0 80.0 90.0 100.0 110.0
[0x7c780 8x3x2]
19265 14115 06162 02054 01285 01281 00000 00000
19265 14115 06162 02054 01285 01281 00000 00000
19265 14115 06162 02054 01026 00256 00000 00000
[0x7c7b0 6x1x4]
1000.0 1250.0 1500.0 1750.0 2000.0 5.0
[0x7c7c4 5x1x4]
5.0 15.0 20.0 30.0 40.0
03-02-2006, 05:40 AM
#116
Registered
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 581
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Japan8
It's partially picking up from Mazdamaniac's comments about there not being multiple fuel maps... it just appears like that. ...
However, some maps might be repeated with slight changes like :
- 2 base ignition maps in case of adaptative knock control : one for 95 RON fuel, one for 98 RON fuel, with about 3-4 degrees difference
- 2 base ignition maps : one for sea level, one for altitude (that was present in Ford EEC V)
- open loop fuel maps in case of failure of some close loop lambda control sensors
- loads of correction maps for ACT, ECT (1 function + 1 map just for spark advance corrections for ECT in EEC V!), lambda (base ignition maps are for lambda = 1), ...
Attached is a sulmary description of the EEC V ignition strategy. Enough to put you off actually...
Fabrice
03-02-2006, 11:22 AM
#117
Is this title ok?
Originally Posted by Rasputin
I also would agree with MM comments. I don't think there are 3D maps.
However, some maps might be repeated with slight changes like :
- 2 base ignition maps in case of adaptative knock control : one for 95 RON fuel, one for 98 RON fuel, with about 3-4 degrees difference
- 2 base ignition maps : one for sea level, one for altitude (that was present in Ford EEC V)
- open loop fuel maps in case of failure of some close loop lambda control sensors
- loads of correction maps for ACT, ECT (1 function + 1 map just for spark advance corrections for ECT in EEC V!), lambda (base ignition maps are for lambda = 1), ...
Attached is a sulmary description of the EEC V ignition strategy. Enough to put you off actually...
Fabrice
However, some maps might be repeated with slight changes like :
- 2 base ignition maps in case of adaptative knock control : one for 95 RON fuel, one for 98 RON fuel, with about 3-4 degrees difference
- 2 base ignition maps : one for sea level, one for altitude (that was present in Ford EEC V)
- open loop fuel maps in case of failure of some close loop lambda control sensors
- loads of correction maps for ACT, ECT (1 function + 1 map just for spark advance corrections for ECT in EEC V!), lambda (base ignition maps are for lambda = 1), ...
Attached is a sulmary description of the EEC V ignition strategy. Enough to put you off actually...
Fabrice
There should be a main function that do not reference any table lookup, it can be done by ideal value calculation. So without the other correction function, the car still pretty much can be run. But of course, if you are developing a PCM that can be adapt to use by other engine, then this will not work. Then again, all they have to do is rewrite the function for that engine.
03-02-2006, 10:14 PM
#118
Int'l Man of Mystery
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 3,651
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Actually I don't believe that Ford's PCM strategy is exactly so "parts bin". Not just the "tune" but the setup also seems to differ between vehicles. The same is said to happen with mazda... the RX-8 vs Mazda6 (I know there is rotary vs piston also).
The article in a Ford/Mustang tuner magazine about the new Kenne Bell kits for the 2005/6 Mustang GT had lots of good info on the new PCM (from Kenne Bell). I've posted parts of it across several different threads... one of which was the Inerceptor-X thread. Here's a copy of the complete article... http://www.kennebell.net/media/artic...INGTHEBELL.pdf
http://www.kennebell.net/supercharge...gt05-06_3v.htm
The article in a Ford/Mustang tuner magazine about the new Kenne Bell kits for the 2005/6 Mustang GT had lots of good info on the new PCM (from Kenne Bell). I've posted parts of it across several different threads... one of which was the Inerceptor-X thread. Here's a copy of the complete article... http://www.kennebell.net/media/artic...INGTHEBELL.pdf
We expected the '05 Mustand's electronic throttle to be a major change, and it's proving all of that. With no throttle cable, the driver- and- tuner-no longer have direct control over letting air into the engine, the engine management computer- and by extension, Ford's powertrain engineers- control the throttle, and their goals are often not your goals.
Ford is interested in producing a smooth, reasonably powerful car that will run a long time with few problems. That means no run-ins with the government over emissions and no warranty headaches. And above all, Ford has no interest in speding time with liability lawyers, and so the e-throttle is many times redundant on closing and not all that eager to open In fact, there is a separate chip with its own programming inside the Spanish Oak engine management dedicated to watching the throttle podition. Called the e-Quizzer, it is a policeman with the sole intent of closing the throttle should any parameters get out of line. Kenne Bell has found Spanish Oak even throws a purposefully erroneous signal occasionally just to see if the e-Quizzer is on the job. Amazing.
There are switches in the software that turn things like e-Quizzer off. Designed to aid diagnostic work by dealer techs, these switches are sure to be used by less scrupulous tuners who don't have the skills to add hot road hardware correctly. Kenne Bell has used these switches in its development work, but won't go near them on production kits for liability reasons. This definitely takes longer to develop, but is part of a well-engineed kits these days. Our advice is to beaware of quick and dirty electronics- and you'll find e-tuning will be required for everything from a cold-air kit on up with the new Mustang.
...
Finally, Charge Motion Runner Controls are employed to boost low-end torque, along with a new, faster, powerfully sophisticated Spanish Oak engine management.
Put together, these new technologies mean the '05 GT engine is much more integrated than before- change one thing and everything else falls to pieces. That, and as we saw when testing this same car a few months ago at Kenne Bell's, Ford didn't leave easy horsepower on the table. "These aren't the good old days anymore," is how Ken Christley, Kenne Bell's overworked in-house electronic tech puts it.
No kidding. Ken went on to explain how the all-seeing Spanish Oak computer is both a speed density unit and a mass air system. It employs both strategies, and uses one to check the other. In fact, with the electronic throttle, Spanish Oak has more secret police than the Soviet Union dreamed of. Getting it to accept a supercharger has been a mean feat.
For example, while others we've spoken to said they had no issues with moving the mass air meter from its perch in the air filer box lid, Ken says when he moved it, the engine threw a fit. It's one of the touchiest mass air meters he's seen, and Ken has hot rodded more than his share.
The '05 engine is super sensitive to ignition timing, too. With the blower, Ken says his timing tests have shown the Three Valve engine picks up 8 hp per degree of ignition timing advance- roughly double what other Ford V-8s yield. This sensitivity requires finesse when the computer decides to pull timing due to rising temperatures, for example.
Of course, there is good news. The new engine is fitted with knock sensors, and they are great. Ford has tuned the knock sensors so well to the stock engine that the Spanish Oak is actually programmed with premium fuel ignition and fuel tables, but the car is sold as a regular-gasoline car. That means, with regular fuel, Ford is relying on the knock sensors to constantly maintain timing because the computer is trying to run aggressive, premium-fuel spark tables all the time...
Ford is interested in producing a smooth, reasonably powerful car that will run a long time with few problems. That means no run-ins with the government over emissions and no warranty headaches. And above all, Ford has no interest in speding time with liability lawyers, and so the e-throttle is many times redundant on closing and not all that eager to open In fact, there is a separate chip with its own programming inside the Spanish Oak engine management dedicated to watching the throttle podition. Called the e-Quizzer, it is a policeman with the sole intent of closing the throttle should any parameters get out of line. Kenne Bell has found Spanish Oak even throws a purposefully erroneous signal occasionally just to see if the e-Quizzer is on the job. Amazing.
There are switches in the software that turn things like e-Quizzer off. Designed to aid diagnostic work by dealer techs, these switches are sure to be used by less scrupulous tuners who don't have the skills to add hot road hardware correctly. Kenne Bell has used these switches in its development work, but won't go near them on production kits for liability reasons. This definitely takes longer to develop, but is part of a well-engineed kits these days. Our advice is to beaware of quick and dirty electronics- and you'll find e-tuning will be required for everything from a cold-air kit on up with the new Mustang.
...
Finally, Charge Motion Runner Controls are employed to boost low-end torque, along with a new, faster, powerfully sophisticated Spanish Oak engine management.
Put together, these new technologies mean the '05 GT engine is much more integrated than before- change one thing and everything else falls to pieces. That, and as we saw when testing this same car a few months ago at Kenne Bell's, Ford didn't leave easy horsepower on the table. "These aren't the good old days anymore," is how Ken Christley, Kenne Bell's overworked in-house electronic tech puts it.
No kidding. Ken went on to explain how the all-seeing Spanish Oak computer is both a speed density unit and a mass air system. It employs both strategies, and uses one to check the other. In fact, with the electronic throttle, Spanish Oak has more secret police than the Soviet Union dreamed of. Getting it to accept a supercharger has been a mean feat.
For example, while others we've spoken to said they had no issues with moving the mass air meter from its perch in the air filer box lid, Ken says when he moved it, the engine threw a fit. It's one of the touchiest mass air meters he's seen, and Ken has hot rodded more than his share.
The '05 engine is super sensitive to ignition timing, too. With the blower, Ken says his timing tests have shown the Three Valve engine picks up 8 hp per degree of ignition timing advance- roughly double what other Ford V-8s yield. This sensitivity requires finesse when the computer decides to pull timing due to rising temperatures, for example.
Of course, there is good news. The new engine is fitted with knock sensors, and they are great. Ford has tuned the knock sensors so well to the stock engine that the Spanish Oak is actually programmed with premium fuel ignition and fuel tables, but the car is sold as a regular-gasoline car. That means, with regular fuel, Ford is relying on the knock sensors to constantly maintain timing because the computer is trying to run aggressive, premium-fuel spark tables all the time...
http://www.kennebell.net/supercharge...gt05-06_3v.htm
03-03-2006, 03:04 AM
#119
Is this title ok?
See the attach, I found some more maps. It also contains some pre-process data where patterns haven't extracted to their true value. Notice there are many multiple small maps. The axis values do have indication for TP, AF, Temp, MAF, load, etc.
Notice the patterns of 3 similar size map are located next to each other with similar axis value. These are indication of individual injectors P1,P2 & S map.
The data are stored in memory with longword alignment (4byte). Any data table that is single byte or 2 byte that do not occupied all the 4bytes space, they were padded with 0xff value base on the patterns I've seen.
Still no volunteer?
Notice the patterns of 3 similar size map are located next to each other with similar axis value. These are indication of individual injectors P1,P2 & S map.
The data are stored in memory with longword alignment (4byte). Any data table that is single byte or 2 byte that do not occupied all the 4bytes space, they were padded with 0xff value base on the patterns I've seen.
Still no volunteer?
03-03-2006, 06:21 AM
#120
Registered
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 581
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Japan8
Actually I don't believe that Ford's PCM strategy is exactly so "parts bin". Not just the "tune" but the setup also seems to differ between vehicles. The same is said to happen with mazda... the RX-8 vs Mazda6 (I know there is rotary vs piston also).
...
...
Fabrice
03-03-2006, 06:30 AM
#121
Int'l Man of Mystery
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 3,651
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
^^ I agree. I was saying something along those lines in another thread in regards to RE Amemiya and other JDM tuners having partially cracked the ECU... fuel, timing, speed limiter, SDAIS... they are still working on trying to crack everything. Someone said that it was only the JDM ecu so it's meaningless for us... my point was exactly what you said... the core programming is the same and THAT would be very useful to know.
03-03-2006, 02:25 PM
#123
Originally Posted by Japan8
^^ I agree. I was saying something along those lines in another thread in regards to RE Amemiya and other JDM tuners having partially cracked the ECU... fuel, timing, speed limiter, SDAIS... they are still working on trying to crack everything. Someone said that it was only the JDM ecu so it's meaningless for us... my point was exactly what you said... the core programming is the same and THAT would be very useful to know.
very true, except that typically a company isn't likely to reveal that information unless you enter into some type of financial arangement with them, afterall they're invested in this for a business profit motive not just an enthisiast effort, they certainly don't want their competitors to have access to the info
Last edited by TeamRX8; 03-03-2006 at 02:29 PM.
03-03-2006, 07:45 PM
#124
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 310
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
we ARE going to crack it... I'm already amazed at how far we have gotten, and with the help and time everyone has spent on this, we are closer than ever before.
Personally, I'm going to go back and re-read some high value posts and try to replicate what has been done already.
Together we can do this... and everyone in the community can benefit from it.
Personally, I'm going to go back and re-read some high value posts and try to replicate what has been done already.
Together we can do this... and everyone in the community can benefit from it.
03-04-2006, 12:49 AM
#125
Maybe they should release some sort of "Mazdaspeed ECU" .... I know that they have something like that on the Mazdaspeed 8 in Japan. but Im not sure if its programmable.
They should do something like Honda did... release a Mugen ECU, just put a stamp that saids "You void your warranty for using this" and requires people to "trade" their old ECU in for Mazdaspeed one. Thats all ...
They should do something like Honda did... release a Mugen ECU, just put a stamp that saids "You void your warranty for using this" and requires people to "trade" their old ECU in for Mazdaspeed one. Thats all ...