smrx8

iTrader: (1)

I remember when i installed my canzommer and thought this thing was the best thing installed in the car. Until i put the car on the dyno and was losing 13hp.. If your going to make claims put the dam car on a dyno and try to get all your pulls from the same one in the future too.

mysql101

Yeah, I don't think you can feel hp anyway. You feel torque.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Only if you are tied to one of the wheels at the time...

Humans (all living things, really) cannot perceive instantaneously. Everything it referenced to time.

tjbourgoyne

I slightly notice more power with a damn near empty tank as opposed to full. That's a feeling of about 10+ hp. I know it's not the same as actual power, but anything less than
10 hp, you would have to be a super hero to detect it with your senses.

rotarygod

Torque is a resistance to twist. That's all. It has nothing to do with motion. As a result it does no work. If it's not doing any work, how can you feel it? You can't. Horsepower is a unit of work. That's what you feel.

mysql101

I googled "what is torque" and the third match comes up with:

http://vettenet.org/torquehp.html

HCTR154

In my experience, a person cannot feel 3-5 hp. Years ago, I remember adding pulleys to my Mustang Cobra. The pulley manufacturer claimed an increase of 15 hp and for about an hour or so after the install, you really could feel the diffence. But as time passed, it seemed to feel "normal" again, pretty quickly.

Oh, I noticed no difference at all after installing pulleys on the 8.

rotarygod

That's from a Corvette group. That's not surprising at all. Most of those guys have never heard of horsepower and do believe that torque is a measure of work. They are wrong though!

El Kabong

As to the claim that you can't sense torque, because torque isn't a measure of work, what about when you are arm wrestling and neither person is winning? No work is being done, because the arms are evenly matched, but I'm pretty sure each person can feel the torque being applied to their arm!

- Kabong

saturn

Chuck Norris doesn't feel torque. Torque feels Chuck Norris.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Precisely.
Now, if you will, who is the "driver" in that scenario with regards to perceiving power?









Any idea?








Think about it...











The table.
The table will perceive the power - the work done - the same way the driver of the car will.

That is how it works.

saturn

Chuck Norris always knows the exact location of Carmen Sandiego.

mysql101

Being pushed back in your seat = torque. My RX-8 makes more horse power than my friend's Jeep, but he has more torque, so you can feel the acceleration better in his than mine. So doesn't it stand to reason that it's mostly torque you notice?

He has more torque down low which means he has more horsepower than you do there. That's what you feel.

rotarygod

Think about this one. Take a 1 foot long bar and hang a 10 lbs weight off of it. That's 10 ft lbs of torque. Hold that out with your arm. If it doesn't move, are you doing work? It feels like it doesn't it? Now take that same rod and weight and clamp in it a vice. Is the vice doing any work? Nope. It's all torque. It's just a resistance to twist. Gravity is trying to twist that weight downward.

saturn

Torque and horsepower are, as far a car goes, the same thing. They are related to one another through the rpm's of the engine. The idea that horsepower makes you go fast and torque makes you accelerate quickly has gotta be the most widely held misconception in the automotive world.

The problem probably comes from the fact that auto manufacturer's quote max horsepower and torque rather than giving you the entire torque/horsepower curve. As it is intended for practicality reasons, in a standard car engine max horsepower occurs at a higher rpm than max torque which screws up the way people think about it.

rotarygod

Here is still the best article I have seen about the torque vs horsepower subject:

http://www.yawpower.com/tqvshp.html

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

The "hp vs tq" debate is a straw-man argument anyway. Torque and horsepower are not opponents, as the "versus"element would have people believe, as h.p. is a mathematical number derived from the torque values measured at different rpm's. I don't even really consider h.p. numbers when looking at dyno charts. Torque along rpms are all that matters, and that will help you to either match your driving style/technique to the vehicle you have or to properly set up a drivetrain/engine combination.

rotorocks

Oh, Ability to change ignition and fuel based on the coolant temps is a part of Int-X functions. It all already got mixed up in my head

rotorocks

Yeah?
well I like the hp better. cause there is more of it in my car than there is torque. The more the merrier, as they say.
Torque is something I can't visualise, HP on the other hand... Just imagine a huge herd of wild scared shitless horses running through your neighborhood, every time you open that throttle.
Get the picture? It is cool isn't it? Now once you go FI that herd gets even bigger. Now that is Horse Power...
What is torque again? a stick and a dumbbell?

saturn

Haha, best explanation I've ever heard for sure.

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

Below 5,252 rpm you will always have less than 1 h.p. per lb. ft. of torque so I guess you never get below that rpm. The irony of your illustration in not being able to visualize torque is amusing in that torque is the only element to the equation of horsepower that can be directly viewed with the naked eye. Besides, I don't let my horses run wild when I open my throttle. I am a good driver so I keep them under my control.

rotarygod

You like to ride your chuck wagon. He just watches his go by!

mysql101

This is the way shoot offs should be.

Wilson

Horsepower is a measurement of moving a set amount of weight over a set distance in a set amount of time. This is something that you can see and feel.

DaveCM203

I can't believe that anyone can realy feel that small a difference. On my 300 lb motorcycle you could kind of feel it because of the power to weight and the fact my bike only makes about 115 hp. I realy don't think I would feel it in my 8 no matter how well I am tuned into my car. I think it is the famous placebo effect.