Can a person feel 3-5 hp?
#26
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I remember when i installed my canzommer and thought this thing was the best thing installed in the car. Until i put the car on the dyno and was losing 13hp.. If your going to make claims put the dam car on a dyno and try to get all your pulls from the same one in the future too.
#29
I slightly notice more power with a damn near empty tank as opposed to full. That's a feeling of about 10+ hp. I know it's not the same as actual power, but anything less than
10 hp, you would have to be a super hero to detect it with your senses.
10 hp, you would have to be a super hero to detect it with your senses.
#30
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Originally Posted by mysql101
Yeah, I don't think you can feel hp anyway. You feel torque.
#31
I googled "what is torque" and the third match comes up with:
http://vettenet.org/torquehp.html
Torque is the only thing that a driver feels, and horsepower is just sort of an esoteric measurement in that context. 300 foot pounds of torque will accelerate you just as hard at 2000 rpm as it would if you were making that torque at 4000 rpm in the same gear, yet, per the formula, the horsepower would be *double* at 4000 rpm. Therefore, horsepower isn't particularly meaningful from a driver's perspective, and the two numbers only get friendly at 5252 rpm, where horsepower and torque always come out the same.
#32
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In my experience, a person cannot feel 3-5 hp. Years ago, I remember adding pulleys to my Mustang Cobra. The pulley manufacturer claimed an increase of 15 hp and for about an hour or so after the install, you really could feel the diffence. But as time passed, it seemed to feel "normal" again, pretty quickly.
Oh, I noticed no difference at all after installing pulleys on the 8.
Oh, I noticed no difference at all after installing pulleys on the 8.
#33
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Originally Posted by mysql101
#34
As to the claim that you can't sense torque, because torque isn't a measure of work, what about when you are arm wrestling and neither person is winning? No work is being done, because the arms are evenly matched, but I'm pretty sure each person can feel the torque being applied to their arm!
- Kabong
- Kabong
#36
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Originally Posted by El Kabong
As to the claim that you can't sense torque, because torque isn't a measure of work, what about when you are arm wrestling and neither person is winning? No work is being done, because the arms are evenly matched, but I'm pretty sure each person can feel the torque being applied to their arm!
- Kabong
- Kabong
Now, if you will, who is the "driver" in that scenario with regards to perceiving power?
Any idea?
Think about it...
The table.
The table will perceive the power - the work done - the same way the driver of the car will.
That is how it works.
#38
Being pushed back in your seat = torque. My RX-8 makes more horse power than my friend's Jeep, but he has more torque, so you can feel the acceleration better in his than mine. So doesn't it stand to reason that it's mostly torque you notice?
He has more torque down low which means he has more horsepower than you do there. That's what you feel.
He has more torque down low which means he has more horsepower than you do there. That's what you feel.
#39
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Originally Posted by El Kabong
As to the claim that you can't sense torque, because torque isn't a measure of work, what about when you are arm wrestling and neither person is winning? No work is being done, because the arms are evenly matched, but I'm pretty sure each person can feel the torque being applied to their arm!
- Kabong
- Kabong
#40
i pwn therefore i am
Originally Posted by mysql101
Being pushed back in your seat = torque. My RX-8 makes more horse power than my friend's Jeep, but he has more torque, so you can feel the acceleration better in his than mine. So doesn't it stand to reason that it's mostly torque you notice?
He has more torque down low which means he has more horsepower than you do there. That's what you feel.
He has more torque down low which means he has more horsepower than you do there. That's what you feel.
The problem probably comes from the fact that auto manufacturer's quote max horsepower and torque rather than giving you the entire torque/horsepower curve. As it is intended for practicality reasons, in a standard car engine max horsepower occurs at a higher rpm than max torque which screws up the way people think about it.
#41
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Here is still the best article I have seen about the torque vs horsepower subject:
http://www.yawpower.com/tqvshp.html
http://www.yawpower.com/tqvshp.html
#42
The "hp vs tq" debate is a straw-man argument anyway. Torque and horsepower are not opponents, as the "versus"element would have people believe, as h.p. is a mathematical number derived from the torque values measured at different rpm's. I don't even really consider h.p. numbers when looking at dyno charts. Torque along rpms are all that matters, and that will help you to either match your driving style/technique to the vehicle you have or to properly set up a drivetrain/engine combination.
#43
RotoRocks Powered
Originally Posted by rotarygod
Close. When the air intake temperature gets too hot, the ecu severely pulls back timing and increases fuel which really kills power.
#44
RotoRocks Powered
Yeah?
well I like the hp better. cause there is more of it in my car than there is torque. The more the merrier, as they say.
Torque is something I can't visualise, HP on the other hand... Just imagine a huge herd of wild scared shitless horses running through your neighborhood, every time you open that throttle.
Get the picture? It is cool isn't it? Now once you go FI that herd gets even bigger. Now that is Horse Power...
What is torque again? a stick and a dumbbell?
well I like the hp better. cause there is more of it in my car than there is torque. The more the merrier, as they say.
Torque is something I can't visualise, HP on the other hand... Just imagine a huge herd of wild scared shitless horses running through your neighborhood, every time you open that throttle.
Get the picture? It is cool isn't it? Now once you go FI that herd gets even bigger. Now that is Horse Power...
What is torque again? a stick and a dumbbell?
#45
i pwn therefore i am
Originally Posted by rotorocks
Yeah?
well I like the hp better. cause there is more of it in my car than there is torque. The more the merrier, as they say.
Torque is something I can't visualise, HP on the other hand... Just imagine a huge herd of wild scared shitless horses running through your neighborhood, every time you open that throttle.
Get the picture? It is cool isn't it? Now once you go FI that herd gets even bigger. Now that is Horse Power...
What is torque again? a stick and a dumbbell?
well I like the hp better. cause there is more of it in my car than there is torque. The more the merrier, as they say.
Torque is something I can't visualise, HP on the other hand... Just imagine a huge herd of wild scared shitless horses running through your neighborhood, every time you open that throttle.
Get the picture? It is cool isn't it? Now once you go FI that herd gets even bigger. Now that is Horse Power...
What is torque again? a stick and a dumbbell?
#46
Below 5,252 rpm you will always have less than 1 h.p. per lb. ft. of torque so I guess you never get below that rpm. The irony of your illustration in not being able to visualize torque is amusing in that torque is the only element to the equation of horsepower that can be directly viewed with the naked eye. Besides, I don't let my horses run wild when I open my throttle. I am a good driver so I keep them under my control.
#50
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I can't believe that anyone can realy feel that small a difference. On my 300 lb motorcycle you could kind of feel it because of the power to weight and the fact my bike only makes about 115 hp. I realy don't think I would feel it in my 8 no matter how well I am tuned into my car. I think it is the famous placebo effect.