trackjunkie

Versatuner doesn't have cranking enrichment or timing. i tried playing around in the VE table at the 500 rpm column but its not doing much to help. it takes awhile to start and after it does start, it wants to shut off and i have to restart it a couple times until it can hold a steady idle till it warms up. it starts and run perfectly fine after the engine warms up

Snox801

Any update on this. I also want to change over to at least e30-50 for cooling. And to see how much the stock system can take. I’m coming from the focus rs world and I’m running flex fuel on my rs and it is great even blending it is now more hassle than half the things we do as car nuts. Seems since I’m tuning it already might as well see what higher oct will do and keep things cool and clean.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Been running between e30 and e50 for a couple of years now on my turbo Renesis ... I love it ! But never really noticed any cooling improvement from using it . I know the stock system on stock engine can't handle E85 ...but only just . So I'm pretty sure you'd be fine with E50 as far as capacity goes.

Snox801

Awsome this is what I was looking for. I know that it makes a very noticeable change with heat on the ecoboost 2.0-2.3 which have very good ecu data. So I’m sure it couldn’t hurt.

trackjunkie

my street port motor ran on dyno fine with S2 pump and stock injectors. although for track, i do run a detuned map with cut throttle for the class. coolant doesnt get above 220. and the rotors look very clean when the motor was pulled and rebuilt.

Snox801

Awsome. The car I bought yesterday great for comp. and has very low miles 13,000. So I was debating an e blend or a meth injection to help cool the engine and clean. I’ll more than likely keep it Na till something goes wrong then do street port and force some air in.

Slawekn1

Wanted to bump this thread to see how those motors hold up after a few years of E60-E85 usage? Can users with experience share their feedback? I want to run E40-E50 for track use with slightly bumped timing for power and cooler , cleaner runing engine. Plan is to use a flex-fuel system.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

When I stripped an engine down recently that had been using E30-E50 for a couple of years it was fine for housing and plate wear . But, there was a runny goo in the intake manifold that was starting to get to look like it could become an issue. I was using Motul Micro 2T as a premix at 120:1 .
Because of that I decided to take a different tack on the engine I put in . Which was to bump up the omp output (mechanically) plus run premix ratio calculated only on the ethanol content ....

Slawekn1

Brettus
Thank you for sharing your experience. Was this a street or track engine? Would you remember how many total miles on e50 it had before being taken apart?

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

The only way it can get into the intake is due to exhaust reversion, which is generally always due to rotor seal/blowby issues. That’s why and how the intake and valves get gunked up on a Renesis.

Was this the turbo or the experimental small PP motor?
.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

This was on my stock ported turbo engine, which had no blowby issues.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

Every Renesis engine does to some degree, it’s just the magnitude. However, not just blow-by, but also some inherent EGR reversion of the exhaust gasses that carry over into the intake side as well. Otherwise with the injectors positioned at and into the housing port openings how do you explain the gunk getting up into the intake, even up to the SSV valve? Which again happens on every Renesis and again the magnitude of which is determined by the significance of the blow-by since there is no intake/exhaust port overlap like all of the previous 13B engines.

Otherwise it can be predicted that pretty much any time I say “black” that you will then say “white”.
.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

I just reported what I found, you can either believe me ..............................or not. Your choice.
I don't really have a good theory on it. I just know that every Renesis intake I ever saw had gunk in it to varying degrees, but this one was worse and over a shorter time/mileage period. Which led me to believe it was something to do with the premix and or ethanol.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Street engine (occasional track) with maybe 20000kms on it.

Forgot to mention : I also found that the oil level would increase over time and I have reason to believe it was premix oil rather than ethanol doing that. Although........ I've seen high performance rotary engines running E85 after a short period with oil that obviously was full of alcohol

trackjunkie

i've been running e85 on my race car for a few years. use SOHN adapter with 2 stroke oil instead of engine oil. and premix with 1.5oz/gal with klotz premix. my timing is pretty much stock. cant say for sure that it runs cooler because water temp still hit 220 on really hot day, but generally 205-210 when ambient is in 80s. definitely burn lean, no carbon at all at the tailpipe.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

the standard Redline 2-stroke oil (premix) is good up to E-50 per their literature, then they recommend their alcohol 2-stroke oil for higher alcohol content

alcohol in the sump oil is again … a result of blow-by. It shows itself more readily with alcohol due to greater solvent effect it has over gasoline. In the end it can only go one of two places, into the atmosphere or back around into the intake via PCV.
.

trackjunkie

so i did a little experiment a while ago. i put e85 in a glass jar with 4 different type of pre mix. Pennzoil XLF and Idemitsu (what i use in SOHN reservoir) started to separate after an hour or so. Red Line synthetic 2 stroke oil and Klotz didn't separate after two weeks.

Fickert

iTrader: (6)

What fuel pump you using? Can stock injectors handle this? I am also using Klotz in my Sohn adapter and 0.5oz per gallon premixing.

trackjunkie

stock S2 pump and basket, stock injectors. entire fuel system is stock

Snox801

I also did saber in glass jar with e85 never separated after a month so it mixes and stays mixed.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

I had a similar experience with Amsoil Sabre Pro. Back then I could have sworn there was a bulletin stating they didn’t recommend it for over 15% ethanol and so I was always a bit nervous. However, I can’t find anything on it now. What I always liked about it was how clean it burns.
.

Fickert

iTrader: (6)

@trackjunkie Thats pretty promising with the news of e85 on your motor. It may be worth a shot on my next fillup.

SilversNova

E85 Requires* the following on any combustion engine, not just rotaries. (*I saw requires, meaning that if you want a properly tuned engine, that is optimally functioning, fuel economy, power, emissions etc)

1) E85 requires more fuel, a lot more fuel. This is especially true on boosted engines. Expect to use 25% to 100% more fuel on E85. You will need larger injectors, sized for your power targets
2) Fuel pump upgrade required for flow levels past the stock capability. on an RX8, the stock pump should handle any N/A 2 rotor E85 needs. But add boost and you will need a fuel pump or two depending on how much boost.
3) You need both fuel and ignition tuning to run E85 correctly, E85 burns slower than gas and has lower energy per unit volume. You need to adjust ignition timing and fuel maps to properly run E85. Stand alone, or Cobb accessport required.
4) Flex fuel needs a sensor to monitor the balance between E85 and gas. This also requires a standalone to handle the map changes based on E85 content.
5) E85 burns cooler and is knock resilient which is why it is great for high boost setups. You can make 50-100% more power on E85 than pump gas on boosted applications assuming your internals can handle the power.
6) Because there is so much more fuel used, E85 will spool turbos faster than gasoline.

Don't bother running E85 unless you are going for power. It is terrible on fuel consumption and has no significant benefit performance wise unless you are using it for boosted applications.