350Z's and WRX's make me mad!!!!
07-02-2005, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Sigma
I understand what's going on too...
When faced with any sort of a decent, logical point you ignore it and go on.
I would expect the same argument to be made if someone was on the 350Z Forum ranting and raving about it was such a bad sports-car because it had no backseat so the RX-8 must the best sportcar in the world because it does. The lack of a backseat has zero relevance to it being a sports-car, so it's stupid to base an argument on that -- just as it's stupid to base an argument on 0-60 times.
A Pontiac GTO will post a faster 0-60 and 1/4-mile time than a Lotus Elise -- guess it must be a better sportscar.
This has nothing to do with finding a test the RX-8 will excel at, I don't particularly know if the RX-8 would fare any better in a comparison of Track Times or Slalom speeds than it does in a 0-60 test when compared to others in its' range, though I'm willing to bet it at least narrows the margin.
But that's not the point. The point is that your argument is entirely flawed to begin with. You claim we want to discuss nothing more than the twisties, but you want to discuss nothing more than 0-60 times. What makes that a better argument? You're doing precisely the same thing and basing your argument on a quality that is most certainly not universal across all sportscars nor a defining characteristic.
When faced with any sort of a decent, logical point you ignore it and go on.
I would expect the same argument to be made if someone was on the 350Z Forum ranting and raving about it was such a bad sports-car because it had no backseat so the RX-8 must the best sportcar in the world because it does. The lack of a backseat has zero relevance to it being a sports-car, so it's stupid to base an argument on that -- just as it's stupid to base an argument on 0-60 times.
A Pontiac GTO will post a faster 0-60 and 1/4-mile time than a Lotus Elise -- guess it must be a better sportscar.
This has nothing to do with finding a test the RX-8 will excel at, I don't particularly know if the RX-8 would fare any better in a comparison of Track Times or Slalom speeds than it does in a 0-60 test when compared to others in its' range, though I'm willing to bet it at least narrows the margin.
But that's not the point. The point is that your argument is entirely flawed to begin with. You claim we want to discuss nothing more than the twisties, but you want to discuss nothing more than 0-60 times. What makes that a better argument? You're doing precisely the same thing and basing your argument on a quality that is most certainly not universal across all sportscars nor a defining characteristic.
07-02-2005, 11:24 PM
#102
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When you're talking about sports cars there's really only two things you want it to do well, handling and acccelration (well and breaking of course). If the sports car doesn't do acceleration well then that's 50% of what a sports car should be....you kinda shot yourself in the foot with that statement I think.
Again, I'm not regretting my purchase...I'm just trying to get you guys to admit the fact that the rx8 is just not a fast car compared to other sport cars in its price range.
When will finally admit that that doesn't matter to anyone here. If people who bought the RX-8 thought that was an important characteristic for their car to have they wouldn't have bought it. The 350Z is an amazing car. It does what it does very well, just like the RX-8 does -- they just do two different things. But, for me, it's just missing something.
Maybe next you can go to the Mazda6 Forums and tell them their car isn't as fast as a 3.5 Altima SE.
07-02-2005, 11:31 PM
#103
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I came from a very heavily modded wrx http://rockymountainrx8.com/modules....c&t=9&start=30 and I've had the 8 since november and I still wouldn't go back to the WRX. Sure I miss the raw power sometimes but this car is just much funner to drive.
07-03-2005, 12:20 AM
#104
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Originally Posted by Niro
RX8 isn't a coupe...but anyway.
even tho' everything is irrelevent since we're not talking about track times according to sigma, lets tackle some of your points.
When you're talking about sports cars there's really only two things you want it to do well, handling and acccelration (well and breaking of course). If the sports car doesn't do acceleration well then that's 50% of what a sports car should be....you kinda shot yourself in the foot with that statement I think.
Back seats...even tho' this thread is completely about performance...ok, you got me there...there's no way a z can get back seats. GT can get handling upgrades...almost no amount of upgrades will get an rx8 to keep up with a GT, and if you manage to do it somehow then the GT can spend 1k and beat you again.
WRX STi...no amount of money put into the RX8 will make it keep up with an STi in any category (it may be ugly, but that's completely subjective).
Again, I'm not regretting my purchase...I'm just trying to get you guys to admit the fact that the rx8 is just not a fast car compared to other sport cars in its price range.
even tho' everything is irrelevent since we're not talking about track times according to sigma, lets tackle some of your points.
When you're talking about sports cars there's really only two things you want it to do well, handling and acccelration (well and breaking of course). If the sports car doesn't do acceleration well then that's 50% of what a sports car should be....you kinda shot yourself in the foot with that statement I think.
Back seats...even tho' this thread is completely about performance...ok, you got me there...there's no way a z can get back seats. GT can get handling upgrades...almost no amount of upgrades will get an rx8 to keep up with a GT, and if you manage to do it somehow then the GT can spend 1k and beat you again.
WRX STi...no amount of money put into the RX8 will make it keep up with an STi in any category (it may be ugly, but that's completely subjective).
Again, I'm not regretting my purchase...I'm just trying to get you guys to admit the fact that the rx8 is just not a fast car compared to other sport cars in its price range.
If hardassed performance for about $28k is what you seek, go and build a Factory Five Cobra, or maybe a killer sport bike and pocket some cash. If you're like most people, and desire some compromises towards passenger space, comfortable ride (without sacrificing handling), etc. then get an 8.
07-04-2005, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by BaronVonBigmeat
In a drag race, the 8 is not the fastest in it's price range. (The S2000 and G35 are barely faster, oh noes--"not fast"). And no one here was claiming the 8 is going to win drag races. Your fevered imagination has cooked up that particular strawman. You really need to differentiate between "not fast" and "not fast in a straight line".
Well...I guess you'd have people saying "A corolla pulled up next to me and started revving its engine...so I revved to 6k, popped the clutch and next thing you knew all he saw was the smoke coming out of my tires while I killed him by 2 car lengths or so by the next light!!"
Last edited by Niro; 07-04-2005 at 09:49 AM.
07-04-2005, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Longhornxtreme
I think the problem is that alot of people don't really know how to distinguish muscle car from sports car.
I guess the STi isn't considered a sports car...
07-04-2005, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Niro
Great...now that we've established that, we can all understand why this forum does not have a "kill"section....because it'll be empty! Which was my point all along...why this forum has no kill section. You can't have a kill section when your'e driving the slowest car in your price range.
Well...I guess you'd have people saying "A corolla pulled up next to me and started revving its engine...so I revved to 6k, popped the clutch and next thing you knew all he saw was the smoke coming out of my tires while I killed him by 2 car lengths or so by the next light!!"
Well...I guess you'd have people saying "A corolla pulled up next to me and started revving its engine...so I revved to 6k, popped the clutch and next thing you knew all he saw was the smoke coming out of my tires while I killed him by 2 car lengths or so by the next light!!"
07-04-2005, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by camaro194
please refresh my memory...why did you but your 8? You seem to have a lot of negative things to say about this car and this board. If you dont like it....leave! There are other boards where you can brag about getting beat my minivans and corollas. I think its funny how you have to slam anyone who posts positive things about this car. Maybe you would be better off with a car that can make up for something that you're obviously lacking. Like previously stated, there is always going to be a faster car. Do you here Corvette owners complaining about cars that cost half as much as them, but are running faster times? No. People buy a car for a reason. Me, I plan on buying an 8 because I feel that it is the best car sub 30k. Its stylish, unique, and quick. I dont need something to get me from stop light to stop light the fastest. I want something that is fun to drive and if there is an occasion where I can have some "spirited" driving, then it will be up to the call.
Please point me to my posts where I slam ANYONE who has ANYTHING postive to say...as you say that I do? I've been arguing with people only on this thread and only about the reason why there's no kill section...I'm not hating the car (obviously or I wouldn't of bought!), I actually love the car, thanks for all your assumptions tho'.
I like how you immidiatly jump down anybodies throat who has ANY criticism to make about the car (and acceleration is one of the only ones to make! Oh the sound system can use some help too).
Last edited by Niro; 07-04-2005 at 11:59 AM.
07-04-2005, 12:11 PM
#112
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Originally Posted by Niro
I guess the STi isn't considered a sports car...
Personally, I think a sports car actually has to look "sporty" as well as have performance characteristics. This is my big beef with Subaru, and if they actually start making decent looking cars I'll be all over them like Rosie Odonnell on a smarty.
BTW, Niro, can you post a pic of your car? I'd like to know what someone can love so much
Also, you said the RX-8 isn't a coupe, but I've seen it referred to as that in some Mazda literature as well as many reviews (case in point: http://www.caranddriver.com/article....rticle_id=8923). Maybe you were being sarcastic?
07-04-2005, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Niro
...why this forum has no kill section. You can't have a kill section when your'e driving the slowest car in your price range.
07-04-2005, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by HeelnToe
The fact that the car isn't the best stoplight racer also screens out the Fast & Furious crowd from purchasing it in the first place. The audience here tends to be more mature than most forums. Even if Mazda suddenly released a flash which gave us +50hp, I don't think you'd find everyone demanding that a kill section be opened.
07-04-2005, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Niro
When you're talking about sports cars there's really only two things you want it to do well, handling and acccelration.
A sports car is measured by the width of the the smile it creates. The Miata, the old CRXsi and original MR2... all very "slow" cars by modern standards... yet each was incredibly fun to drive. They all connected the driver to the driving experience far better than many cars which could lap them at any track.
07-04-2005, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by khtm
BTW, Niro, can you post a pic of your car? I'd like to know what someone can love so much
https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-show-shine-26/green-nxt-pics-63490/
07-04-2005, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by HeelnToe
The fact that the car isn't the best stoplight racer also screens out the Fast & Furious crowd from purchasing it in the first place. The audience here tends to be more mature than most forums. Even if Mazda suddenly released a flash which gave us +50hp, I don't think you'd find everyone demanding that a kill section be opened.
Either that or a whole lot of bannings would go around, and a "www.rx8forums.com" site would open up.
07-04-2005, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by khtm
Also, you said the RX-8 isn't a coupe, but I've seen it referred to as that in some Mazda literature as well as many reviews (case in point: http://www.caranddriver.com/article....rticle_id=8923). Maybe you were being sarcastic?
I wasn't being sarcastic...I always considered 2 door cars coupes, and 4 door sedans. The rx8 is a new animal...kind of a cross between the two. Unless I got the whole coupe/sedan definition wrong.
EDIT:
Coupe: A closed car with two side doors and less than 33 cubic feet of rear interior volume, according to measurements based on SAE standard J1100. A two-door car is therefore not necessarily a coupe.
Sedan: A sedan car, American English terminology, is one of the most common configurations of the modern automobile, having a usually four-door passenger compartment between the lower hood – covering the engine in the front, and the lower trunk at the rear. At least 33 cubic feet of rear interior volume.
How many cubic feet are in the rear of an rx8? I'm guessing less then 33 cubic feet...then it's a Coupe.
Last edited by Niro; 07-04-2005 at 10:02 PM.
07-04-2005, 10:24 PM
#119
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Originally Posted by Niro
I guess the STi isn't considered a sports car...
07-04-2005, 10:49 PM
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i think that anyone who complains about the 8's straightline performance didnt do their research before they bought one. I love my car...i know i could have gotten a faster car for the money but it wouldn't have been unique. I have driven all kinds of fast cars from a low 11 second awd talon to my high 13 second all motor prelude. My best friend has an evo that runs mid 12s and he didnt like my car until he went for a ride in it and then he had a whole new respect for the 8. His car is fast but not as fun and not as easy to drive and control when your going fast.
I'm getting out of the street racing state of mind so 0-60 and 1/4 mile times dont bother me that much. But still this car is pretty quick for its lack of power. I keep up with my friends 03 mustang gt and ive pull on my friends civic with a jdm b16 swap and almost completely lighten. This is the same guy with the evo. His civic almost kept up with my prelude so he was really surprise when i walked on him in his civic.
But I wouldnt trade my 8 for any other car under $50k and most people who bought an 8 and know what they were getting would think the same way.
I'm getting out of the street racing state of mind so 0-60 and 1/4 mile times dont bother me that much. But still this car is pretty quick for its lack of power. I keep up with my friends 03 mustang gt and ive pull on my friends civic with a jdm b16 swap and almost completely lighten. This is the same guy with the evo. His civic almost kept up with my prelude so he was really surprise when i walked on him in his civic.
But I wouldnt trade my 8 for any other car under $50k and most people who bought an 8 and know what they were getting would think the same way.
07-05-2005, 12:40 PM
#121
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haven't read everyone's opinion about getting people getting beat by 350Z's and I deeply respect everyones opinion but I have personally "tested" my RX8 against two of them 350Z's taking off at 8k rpms and have maintained 3 cars ahead of them "both times" the whole time. I'm an old school guy that fell in love with rotaries since 1982 when someone owed me money and I got their car in return for the cash they owed me and since then I'm a rotor head; all I've got in my 8 is a cold air intake and lots of heart and pretty good at shifting by ear and not by a shift light. I have seen RX8 drivers getting their butts whipped by others and if you take off the line at the same time and shift between 5 to 6k RPM's you should have no problems staying ahead of the game, unless that the 350Z is modified somewhat, that is personaly my experience. Now the WRX STI I have deep respect for. I have taken off side by side but the only one time that I tried "testing" my car we were slowed down by "State" 5-0's. I've had 82 and 83 RX 7's street and all I did to the 82 was put headers, Crane 70KV coils Hi flow cat and Flowmaster muffler and was beating Mustangs 5-O's like a joke and the 83 RX7 I put a bridgeported 12a nitrous ready engine with dual stage nitrous, T-5 tranny, Ford 9" with a 5.4 gear, roll cage and a bronze clutch I bought from PR and was running very hard but never took it to the track because I got rid of due to a divorce. Come on guys...I'm sure that we rotary freaks will come up with something soon and the rotary world will keep spinning and having fun...
07-05-2005, 12:47 PM
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Why in the world would you want to shift between 5K and 6K if you were going for best-time? You haven't even hit peak torque and you lose all the gearing benefits of having a higher redline. You'd be lucky to run a low-15 doing that, if that. Most people drive around town shifting there.
And the only way you're beating 350Zs by any measure, let alone 3 full car lengths, is if they totally SUCK at driving. A good driver in a Z can pull 13s easy, and no way in HELL an RX-8 is getting anywhere near that, let alone beating it by another quarter-second to get 3 car-lengths ahead.
And the only way you're beating 350Zs by any measure, let alone 3 full car lengths, is if they totally SUCK at driving. A good driver in a Z can pull 13s easy, and no way in HELL an RX-8 is getting anywhere near that, let alone beating it by another quarter-second to get 3 car-lengths ahead.
Last edited by Sigma; 07-05-2005 at 12:54 PM.
07-05-2005, 03:35 PM
#123
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Originally Posted by williemazda
haven't read everyone's opinion about getting people getting beat by 350Z's and I deeply respect everyones opinion but I have personally "tested" my RX8 against two of them 350Z's taking off at 8k rpms and have maintained 3 cars ahead of them "both times" the whole time. I'm an old school guy that fell in love with rotaries since 1982 when someone owed me money and I got their car in return for the cash they owed me and since then I'm a rotor head; all I've got in my 8 is a cold air intake and lots of heart and pretty good at shifting by ear and not by a shift light. I have seen RX8 drivers getting their butts whipped by others and if you take off the line at the same time and shift between 5 to 6k RPM's you should have no problems staying ahead of the game, unless that the 350Z is modified somewhat, that is personaly my experience. Now the WRX STI I have deep respect for. I have taken off side by side but the only one time that I tried "testing" my car we were slowed down by "State" 5-0's. I've had 82 and 83 RX 7's street and all I did to the 82 was put headers, Crane 70KV coils Hi flow cat and Flowmaster muffler and was beating Mustangs 5-O's like a joke and the 83 RX7 I put a bridgeported 12a nitrous ready engine with dual stage nitrous, T-5 tranny, Ford 9" with a 5.4 gear, roll cage and a bronze clutch I bought from PR and was running very hard but never took it to the track because I got rid of due to a divorce. Come on guys...I'm sure that we rotary freaks will come up with something soon and the rotary world will keep spinning and having fun...
07-05-2005, 03:41 PM
#124
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Originally Posted by williemazda
haven't read everyone's opinion about getting people getting beat by 350Z's and I deeply respect everyones opinion but I have personally "tested" my RX8 against two of them 350Z's taking off at 8k rpms and have maintained 3 cars ahead of them "both times" the whole time. I'm an old school guy that fell in love with rotaries since 1982 when someone owed me money and I got their car in return for the cash they owed me and since then I'm a rotor head; all I've got in my 8 is a cold air intake and lots of heart and pretty good at shifting by ear and not by a shift light. I have seen RX8 drivers getting their butts whipped by others and if you take off the line at the same time and shift between 5 to 6k RPM's you should have no problems staying ahead of the game, unless that the 350Z is modified somewhat, that is personaly my experience. Now the WRX STI I have deep respect for. I have taken off side by side but the only one time that I tried "testing" my car we were slowed down by "State" 5-0's. I've had 82 and 83 RX 7's street and all I did to the 82 was put headers, Crane 70KV coils Hi flow cat and Flowmaster muffler and was beating Mustangs 5-O's like a joke and the 83 RX7 I put a bridgeported 12a nitrous ready engine with dual stage nitrous, T-5 tranny, Ford 9" with a 5.4 gear, roll cage and a bronze clutch I bought from PR and was running very hard but never took it to the track because I got rid of due to a divorce. Come on guys...I'm sure that we rotary freaks will come up with something soon and the rotary world will keep spinning and having fun...
07-05-2005, 04:06 PM
#125
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Guys and gals, I too respect everyones opionions on the 8, whether good or bad. But I personally love mine. Speed really isn't a factor for me but the chicks love it and that's what makes the payments worth it every month. When I do feel the need for speed, I just get on my GSXR 750. I've modded it up and it's 0-60 in 2.0 seconds. So if you are tired of being beaten, just get a crotch rocket. You will be truly amazed how many people will try to race you in cars and all they will see is your dust. The only car I've ever had hang with me was a HEAVILY modded 03 Cobra with a 100 shot of nitrous.