350Z's and WRX's make me mad!!!!
07-01-2005, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Niro
You gotta be kidding me...you actually think you can beat out a wrx??
Let me guess...you thought you were racing a wrx while he's casually speeding up laughing at your screaming engine?
Let me guess...you thought you were racing a wrx while he's casually speeding up laughing at your screaming engine?
NOw in stock form the cars are very very close. I personaly know that because I have races my buddies WRX and believe me or not I actually pull on it from the start and he will catch the 8 at the top end of 3rd then they stay about door to door.
07-01-2005, 12:36 PM
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I'm not grouping all WRX' drivers together, it was more aimed at SRT-4's. I almost bought a STI twice, first when I was looking at the 8 and about a month ago. There awesome peforming machines, I just couldn't get over the looks thats all. My next car will be something hi-po and all wheel drive, thats if someone could pry my 8 key's "out of my cold dead hands"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No matter what people tell me, till I "get spanked" by a WRX than there just as or slightly quicker than 8's if it matters? I just don't get where people say a 8 is slow??? Compared to a 911 yes, compared to a stock 350Z, WRX no.
07-01-2005, 12:43 PM
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Don't worry guys... the 8 will be in same demand long after its stopped being sold... just like the FD... sooner or later someone will find, or steal how the ecu works even if we're basing everything off of the ford motor... the power will get figured out... the handling of this car is better than my dad's freaking 03 911 c2 cab when both are pushed to their limits. It IS an amazing car that was intentionally sold underpowered in my opinion because people would start killing themselves left and right.
Crimson, I know EXACTLY what you're talking about... that exact reason is why I bought my 8 over the other easier to initially modify cars...
Crimson, I know EXACTLY what you're talking about... that exact reason is why I bought my 8 over the other easier to initially modify cars...
07-01-2005, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by r0tor
I'll call BS on that... and have witnesses to prove it
How are you calling BS on that one. For a little under two G's on a WRX you can boost the cars power up to 285 ish, only adding a cat back and using a new fuel map.
http://cobbtuning.com/wrx/power-s.html#stage2
If your running this setup you would kill an RX-8, even one that was FI'd.
Furthermore most dealerships wouldn't void your warranty for these modifications.
07-01-2005, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Longhornxtreme
Don't worry guys... the 8 will be in same demand long after its stopped being sold... just like the FD... sooner or later someone will find, or steal how the ecu works even if we're basing everything off of the ford motor... the power will get figured out... the handling of this car is better than my dad's freaking 03 911 c2 cab when both are pushed to their limits. It IS an amazing car that was intentionally sold underpowered in my opinion because people would start killing themselves left and right.
Crimson, I know EXACTLY what you're talking about... that exact reason is why I bought my 8 over the other easier to initially modify cars...
Crimson, I know EXACTLY what you're talking about... that exact reason is why I bought my 8 over the other easier to initially modify cars...
LOL...yea I'm sure it's INTENTIONALLY sold underpowered so people will be safer drivers. LOL...that's awesome, how can I get a skull as thick as yours?
mazda tech: "ok listen...this engine is capable of 300hp and we can make it blow away a wrx sti, but we don't want people killing themselves so we're gonna intentionally limit the engine to rsx-s speeds...maybe 220ish hp"
mazda marketing: "Ok...we'll just tell people it has 238hp, it's within 5% so it's ok...people will find ways to unlock it anyway"
Last edited by Niro; 07-01-2005 at 01:03 PM.
07-01-2005, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by trueimport
I agree with you 100% on that. Im not saying that the WRX will rape the RX8 Im just saying there is no way the 8 is the same speed or faster than a WRX especially if the 8 is stock and the WRX has any mod even just an exhaust.
NOw in stock form the cars are very very close. I personaly know that because I have races my buddies WRX and believe me or not I actually pull on it from the start and he will catch the 8 at the top end of 3rd then they stay about door to door.
NOw in stock form the cars are very very close. I personaly know that because I have races my buddies WRX and believe me or not I actually pull on it from the start and he will catch the 8 at the top end of 3rd then they stay about door to door.
If you don't nail the WRX start correctly you have to wait till three grand to get on the boost, thats the only explination for the result.
07-01-2005, 01:08 PM
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Lots of cars are sold 'underpowered' its simple economics... Why spend the money on the higherpowered car when it will sell just as well at a lower power...
Look at the miata for instance... It really wouldn't be that hard for Mazda to offer a higherpower version for less money than they charge for mspeed. But the car already sells REALLY well so there's no reason to change the power of the car. Most people who need more power will be designing it to fit their exact application anyway.
Federal emissions controls are why it doesn't make near the 238. Get over it and find a way to lean your mixtures back out. Remember are cars are FORDS. and Ford motor co. in my opinion doesn't care too much about the consumer as long as they are making profits. Why do you think there's no shield on the AC ?
Look at the miata for instance... It really wouldn't be that hard for Mazda to offer a higherpower version for less money than they charge for mspeed. But the car already sells REALLY well so there's no reason to change the power of the car. Most people who need more power will be designing it to fit their exact application anyway.
Federal emissions controls are why it doesn't make near the 238. Get over it and find a way to lean your mixtures back out. Remember are cars are FORDS. and Ford motor co. in my opinion doesn't care too much about the consumer as long as they are making profits. Why do you think there's no shield on the AC ?
07-01-2005, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Niro
LOL...yea I'm sure it's INTENTIONALLY sold underpowered so people will be safer drivers. LOL...that's awesome, how can I get a skull as thick as yours?
mazda tech: "ok listen...this engine is capable of 300hp and we can make it blow away a wrx sti, but we don't want people killing themselves so we're gonna intentionally limit the engine to rsx-s speeds...maybe 220ish hp"
mazda marketing: "Ok...we'll just tell people it has 238hp, it's within 5% so it's ok...people will find ways to unlock it anyway"
mazda tech: "ok listen...this engine is capable of 300hp and we can make it blow away a wrx sti, but we don't want people killing themselves so we're gonna intentionally limit the engine to rsx-s speeds...maybe 220ish hp"
mazda marketing: "Ok...we'll just tell people it has 238hp, it's within 5% so it's ok...people will find ways to unlock it anyway"
Mazda kept the car slow because they were worried about taking it in the pocket. The rotary engine is very inconsistent when it is boosted. Some last forever, many more have engine failures. These problems happen when you have consumers who don't take care of their cars (which is most of them). Bottom line, Mazda can't afford to be fixing and tuning cars left and right.
There will probably be a factory Turbo Charged engine at some time, but I think Mazda will wait till they find a setup that is reliable enough to keep them out of the red.
07-01-2005, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Niro
the protege doesn't cost 35k...
You can have a kill section on a 15k car....you put a kill section on a 35k car and get beat by accords and minivans and it's pretty embarassing. The decision was made a long time ago...when they realized it can't beat anything in its price range. Sad but true.
You can have a kill section on a 15k car....you put a kill section on a 35k car and get beat by accords and minivans and it's pretty embarassing. The decision was made a long time ago...when they realized it can't beat anything in its price range. Sad but true.Yeah, haha, funny and clever response. The decision was made more than a year before the car even came out. And if anyone's getting beaten by accords and minivans in any situation that says more about their driving than the car.
07-01-2005, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by trueimport
Mugatu and Elara.......
Nobody ever said I was trying to change the forum or its rules!! All I said and was that some of the stuff people say are funny and sometimes its cool to see what other cars did against another car (thats if they are telling the truth)
So from what I gathered the majority of the people are saying that there isnt anything that you can do to make the car MUCH faster for a conservitive dollar amount SO inother words your trying to tell me that if you put the majority of ALL RX8s togeher and ran them that there really wouldnt be that much of a difference in how quick/fast eachothers cars are? is that what Im understanding here? Because thats crap! I know for a fact that you can take 2 of the same cars NO MATTER what the make or model and depending on the driver one car will be a **** load faster than the other in the twisties or in a straight line!!! So lets get off pointing the fingers or trying to come to a conclusion on what one of the 3 cars is the fastes because that will never be answered. Its like asking a guy that likes domestics "whats faster a mustang or a camaro" they will argue until they are blue in the face! And besides that was not my original question, All I was trying to find out is what i can do to make the car a little faster. Because before the other cars got modded the 8 was door to door and all I want to do is make the playing ground a little more even, thats ALL!
Nobody ever said I was trying to change the forum or its rules!! All I said and was that some of the stuff people say are funny and sometimes its cool to see what other cars did against another car (thats if they are telling the truth)
So from what I gathered the majority of the people are saying that there isnt anything that you can do to make the car MUCH faster for a conservitive dollar amount SO inother words your trying to tell me that if you put the majority of ALL RX8s togeher and ran them that there really wouldnt be that much of a difference in how quick/fast eachothers cars are? is that what Im understanding here? Because thats crap! I know for a fact that you can take 2 of the same cars NO MATTER what the make or model and depending on the driver one car will be a **** load faster than the other in the twisties or in a straight line!!! So lets get off pointing the fingers or trying to come to a conclusion on what one of the 3 cars is the fastes because that will never be answered. Its like asking a guy that likes domestics "whats faster a mustang or a camaro" they will argue until they are blue in the face! And besides that was not my original question, All I was trying to find out is what i can do to make the car a little faster. Because before the other cars got modded the 8 was door to door and all I want to do is make the playing ground a little more even, thats ALL!
My apologies.
07-01-2005, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Elara
Yeah, haha, funny and clever response. The decision was made more than a year before the car even came out. And if anyone's getting beaten by accords and minivans in any situation that says more about their driving than the car.
07-01-2005, 05:08 PM
#65
hate when people say that driver skill is more important...ofcourse if you put a 10 year old behind the wheel of a wrx you'll probably beat him...but same driver skill there's no way an rx8 will beat it....spend 2k on the wrx and even the 10 year old will beat you.
I highly encourage anyone who thinks driver skill doesn't have anything to do with...well driving, to attend a high speed driver education event. You'll be surprised how fast the 8 is, and how slow "supposedly fast cars" are in the hands of relatively inexperienced drivers.
Even with a sizable performance advantage (lets say 50-100 bhp), if you screw up your corner entry, and the guy behind you ends up with a 20-30 mph exit speed advantage, he's going to pwn you in the face during the straight. Turbo or not, your going to get owned hardcore.
Most of americas preoccupation with power has little if nothing to do with driving, and everything to do with trying to see if you can merge in front of the guy to your left in time. =/. Thats not driving, thats glorified pedal mashing.
Btw the civic only had a b18b engine, roughly 140 bhp and no vtech. Rode the GT3's *** through the entire technical section.
07-01-2005, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Niro
You gotta be kidding me...you actually think you can beat out a wrx??
Let me guess...you thought you were racing a wrx while he's casually speeding up laughing at your screaming engine?
Let me guess...you thought you were racing a wrx while he's casually speeding up laughing at your screaming engine?
what do you think the 8 is... a riced out civic on 18's??
07-01-2005, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by crossbow
There is no such thing as equivilant driver skill. Its like having two people draw the exact same thing. Even if the end product is still the same, the lines are completely different and unique to each individual.
I highly encourage anyone who thinks driver skill doesn't have anything to do with...well driving, to attend a high speed driver education event. You'll be surprised how fast the 8 is, and how slow "supposedly fast cars" are in the hands of relatively inexperienced drivers.
Even with a sizable performance advantage (lets say 50-100 bhp), if you screw up your corner entry, and the guy behind you ends up with a 20-30 mph exit speed advantage, he's going to pwn you in the face during the straight. Turbo or not, your going to get owned hardcore.
Most of americas preoccupation with power has little if nothing to do with driving, and everything to do with trying to see if you can merge in front of the guy to your left in time. =/. Thats not driving, thats glorified pedal mashing.
Btw the civic only had a b18b engine, roughly 140 bhp and no vtech. Rode the GT3's *** through the entire technical section.
I highly encourage anyone who thinks driver skill doesn't have anything to do with...well driving, to attend a high speed driver education event. You'll be surprised how fast the 8 is, and how slow "supposedly fast cars" are in the hands of relatively inexperienced drivers.
Even with a sizable performance advantage (lets say 50-100 bhp), if you screw up your corner entry, and the guy behind you ends up with a 20-30 mph exit speed advantage, he's going to pwn you in the face during the straight. Turbo or not, your going to get owned hardcore.
Most of americas preoccupation with power has little if nothing to do with driving, and everything to do with trying to see if you can merge in front of the guy to your left in time. =/. Thats not driving, thats glorified pedal mashing.
Btw the civic only had a b18b engine, roughly 140 bhp and no vtech. Rode the GT3's *** through the entire technical section.
I dont' think you're understanding this....
ofcourse driver skill matters...but to say the car doesn't is as retarted of an argument as you can possibly get. I don't think we're talking about winning in the twisties here, we're talking about RAW performance of the cars!! You rx8 guys hate talking about that becase our cars just don't produce good power...definetly nothing to brag about (actually something you usually want to hide;/).
Like it or not...a mediocre driver in a 35z will beat out a good driver in an rx8, and a crappy driver in an sti will beat out a good driver in an rx8....MAYBE NOT in the twisties...but in a straight line, you'll be left in the dust.
No amount of race courses is going to make your car faster then an sti (that's only supposedly what, 62hp more then us??), 350z or any of those cars...we're not talking about twisties here...RAW performance...rx8 has none...clear enough for you?
I already see you typing away at your keyboard..."but in the twisties I can..."
07-01-2005, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by r0tor
well, it was me stock with a passenger and him with an intake and exhaust alone from a 10mph role... i can guarantee he wasn't the car a carlength ahead by the end of third gear.
what do you think the 8 is... a riced out civic on 18's??
what do you think the 8 is... a riced out civic on 18's??
I own an 8 I don't think its a riced out civic. I know what's it NOT...and it's NOT a fast car...not when compared to its competition or anything in its price range.
07-01-2005, 06:40 PM
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god i love this forum.... the whole "I never even drove my car hard enough to know what its capable of and instead of learning how to drive it i'm going to sit infront of my computer all day bitchin about how slow it is because someone posted a bad looking dyno so this thing has to be slower then a minivan"
Last edited by r0tor; 07-01-2005 at 06:43 PM.
07-01-2005, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by crossbow
Opposite story...there was recently a GT3 at a local VIR event getting pwn3d by a civic hatch in the technical sections.
Doesn't matter what you drive, its the driver skill that counts most.
Doesn't matter what you drive, its the driver skill that counts most.
07-01-2005, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by r0tor
god i love this forum.... the whole "I never even drove my car hard enough to know what its capable of and instead of learning how to drive it i'm going to sit infront of my computer all day bitchin about how slow it is because someone posted a bad looking dyno so this thing has to be slower then a minivan"
LOL...yea...I've never driven my car hard enough, that's funny. I like how you find the one miniscule comment I made that was half a joke and quote that one while ignoring the actual truth...this car is slower then any of its competitors in its price range. I'm not bitching about anybodies dyno...I'm bitching about the fact that if I go out and drive any sports car 25k-35k I'll be able to outrun the rx8...I still love my rx8, but there's no way in hell you can tell me its a fast car...unless your comparing them to civics??
And only stock civics...a couple of grand in acivic will blow the 8 away as far as performance goes.
07-01-2005, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Elara
Sorry, wasn't trying to be bitchy. We just get a lot of "MY CAR OWNZ JOO" crap from people who then get mad when they're called out on it and asked to adhere to the forum rules. Wasn't trying to hijack your thread My apologies.
My apologies. I was just thinking it would be cool if Ryan took a poll to see what the members of each forum thought would be the best parts of "ALL" the forums to make each of them just that much better. Because I like parts of this forum and parts of the RX7 forum and I think that it would be cool if they combined the best of both worlds.
